how to make my room better...

[brandondrury]

Anyone who owns an outboard preamp has purchased on overpriced preamp.

Maybe overpriced isn't the world. Maybe unneeded is.

I have a pair of Neve 1272 preamps and then I've got a Mackie 1604. I really don't hear a million dollars of difference between the two preamps. However, I could tell that just stacking some rockwool (still in the package) around a Marshall and Mesa cabinet improved my guitar recording 5 fold. All the room crap seamed to dissapear. Keep in mind that this was just building a fort around the cabinets. I can't wait to hear my mixes when I get finished with the room.

I may even start appreciating my Neve preamp when I can actually hear a difference. I don't care what anyone says. The stupid effects you have to add to vocals usually make 10x the difference than the mic does. I've got a cd where a vocal take was done with an SM 58 and Neumann U87. If there is a difference, there certainly isn't a clear winner.

I should have ordered a truck of Rockwool instead of buying my Neve preamp 2 years ago.
Brandon

[chrisaiken]

Anyone who owns an outboard preamp has purchased on overpriced preamp.

Maybe overpriced isn't the world. Maybe unneeded is.

I have a pair of Neve 1272 preamps and then I've got a Mackie 1604. I really don't hear a million dollars of difference between the two preamps. However, I could tell that just stacking some rockwool (still in the package) around a Marshall and Mesa cabinet improved my guitar recording 5 fold. All the room crap seamed to dissapear. Keep in mind that this was just building a fort around the cabinets. I can't wait to hear my mixes when I get finished with the room.

I may even start appreciating my Neve preamp when I can actually hear a difference. I don't care what anyone says. The stupid effects you have to add to vocals usually make 10x the difference than the mic does. I've got a cd where a vocal take was done with an SM 58 and Neumann U87. If there is a difference, there certainly isn't a clear winner.

I should have ordered a truck of Rockwool instead of buying my Neve preamp 2 years ago.
Brandon

I'm not sure how long you've been at this but I have a feeling not to long.I also have a feeling that once you gain more experience and start hearing things differently you will look back at your

"Anyone who owns an outboard preamp has purchased on overpriced preamp.
Maybe overpriced isn't the world. Maybe unneeded is."

And realize that many people (hopefully including yourself) can and do indeed notice quite a difference,between a mackie and a 1272. Sometimes maybe you'd think the mackie is better for the source material but there is definitely a different color.Your comments make it look like alot of experienced AE's are and have been for years using expensive stuff (like great mics)for the hell of it.I completely disagree with you sorry.Glad you're starting to get a handle on your acoustics though.
Chris

[brandondrury]

I hope my post didn't turn out wrong.

The point was that if your monitoring system has dips and peaks of -30 db, then the Neve wont' make a lot of difference. If the room rings when a singer wails, there won't be any difference.

If a room is "boxy" sounding, then no preamp will take that boxiness away.

I guess I was just saying that people get the chain confused and go for the mic and preamp and recording and mix in the most places possible. I know, I've done it. I've been doing this a few years and I'm definitely in the learning process.

It's important to note that experienced engineers typically work in nice studios where a professional acoustical engineer designed the studio. These studios have tall ceilings, avoid parallel walls, etc. If my assumption is correct, then the experienced engineer does not have to worry about the effects of a wall being two feet away from the hihat.

Once the room is right, little things like mics, preamps, and compressor become more important. My thoughts were with the modern home studio revolution that most people probably have horrible rooms (myself included) and buying an expensive mic and preamp shouldn't be the priority.

I posted a few of my MP3s on another forum. Everyone instantly shouted "THE ROOM! THE ROOM! THE ROOM!". No one noticed that I ran an AKG 414 through a Neve. I guess that's my point. I hope no one got upset.

A lot of the room thing can be the difference between character. However, most bands I record want to sound like a certain band. They want big drums....not living room drums. I wish I was recording bands that just wanted a sound put on a cd and just wanted their music on a playback format. Unfortunately, everyone wants to sound like Tool and it's impossible to do that without a great room.

Thanks
Brandon

[giles117]

You got it right Brandon.

Great gear in a crappy room is like a Lexus with a Yugo Engine.

Looking pretty and going nowhere fast. LOL

After completion of my room, my cheap mics sounded ten times better. Of course I have good mics to, but the chepy deepies actually became very useful. The strange and odd coloration they exhibit finally had a place in my mic closet that i could truly appreciate.

Now they are tools instead of wasted money.

And my good mics sound even better.

So yeah get the room right 1st, then spend the massive money on gear. I use cheap tools and expensive tools and I look at them all the same way now, just another tool. Instead of .. Ooo this is the mic. U gotta buy it, it is fat!!!!! LOL.

Matter of fact, just completed a rap project, put up the expensive mic and ran through a few of them and then put up the $80.00 MXL mic and it was the right TOOL for the job. Outdoing the BLUE mic and the AKG mic.

Bryan Giles

[brandondrury]

I just wish the ads in the magazines would have told me to buy acoustic treatment and then buy fancy condensor mics and expensive preamps.

Oh well, you learn as you go.

Brandon

[Ethan Winer]

Brandon,

> I just wish the ads in the magazines would have told me to buy acoustic treatment and then buy fancy condensor mics and expensive preamps. <

I am trying as hard as I possibly can to change that.

--Ethan

[brandondrury]

Keep fighting for the good guys, Ethan.

You are much appreciated and respected and for good reason. I sometimes wonder if your overgenerosity with knowledge cuts into your business. I've never scene plans to build a product on a site that actually sells the product.

You seam to know what your doing, though.

In regard to the magazines, I think the average intern at a large studio doesn't have to worry about acoustics or the design of the control room. The fact that a pro designed it sort of takes it out of the problem equation. However, the home recording thing is so different yet the articles we read are from guys working in "real" studios. A compressor, an eq, or A/D convertor might even been noticable in such a studio.

Thanks again Ethan,
Brandon

[Ethan Winer]

Brandon,

> I sometimes wonder if your overgenerosity with knowledge cuts into your business. <

I'm sure it does. But I believe so strongly in the importance of acoustic treatment that I'd rather see someone build their own or buy from a competitor than do without.

> the average intern at a large studio doesn't have to worry about acoustics or the design of the control room. <

Yes, this is a big factor, and not just for interns. I've even seen pros argue against the importance of treatment because, I assume, they never had to think about it in the rooms they work. A few months ago some guy who claimed to be a pro, anyway, said it's all about which mikes, pres, and outboard gear you use. He insisted that acoustic treatment was irrelevant. And Yes, he was absolutely serious!

--Ehan

[brandondrury]

Eventually, I'll get my studio perfect, forget how much work it took to get it there, and then claim how wonderful all my mics, preamps, and compressors are too.

Brandon