HUMIDITY IN MACHINE ROOM

[hywyn]

Hi,

I have a studio, nearing completion, but the Machine Room is a cause for concern. It is quite small and narrow at approx. 3 metres x 1 metre, but large enough to contain the console psu's (7 of them) and the 4 power amps for the main speakers. The room also houses the electrics for the building.

There are two vents that open into the store next door that are 9" x 6" (sorry, - mixing up my imperial and metric), but nothing to push the air around. There is an opening from the the store to the outside that a flu could extract to ,...but the concern is that air already present within the store that could be drawn into the Electric room may already be quite humid.

The humidity is constantly high at around 80% - this is on the ground floor of an ex Nuclear Bunker. It is also cold, with no heat (and none either within the store next door).

The idea is to place an extractor fan in one of the vents, with a flu to the outside. Then install a humidifier and a heater with a thermostat.
So, my question is....am I onto a complete loser in using this room?

Here's hoping!

Thanks and regards,
steve

IMG_20160222_161723305.jpg

[Soundman2020]

the concern is that air already present that could be drawn into the store may already be quite humid.

That's the basic question: Where is the humidity coming from? You should probably try to identify the original source, so it can be fixed.

The humidity is constantly high at around 80% -

Something is amiss here.... 80% RH is way too high for a studio in any case, and also way, way too high for a machine room. It should be in the range 45% to 55% for a machine room. Most data centers set their humidity alarms at 40% (low) and 60% (high), with automatic shut-off at 30%(low) and 70%(high). Your level is far beyond the level where most machine rooms have already shut themselves down, to protect the equipment.

My first suggestion would be to NOT OPERATE your gear at all, until you fix the problem. With humidity that high, and cold temperatures, water condensation inside your gear is a very real risk.

OK, here's the issue: Based on your diagram, it seems the machine room is right next to the control room. The control, of course, does have a properly designed HVAC system that is already supplying air at around 40%RH and 23°C. It would probably be pretty easy to bleed off some of that conditioned air from there into the machine room, and return the exhaust air from the machine room into the CR HVAC system return ducts. It's not a big room, and I would assume that if the CR is properly designed then the HVAC system has some spare capacity, so that would be the best choice. Of course, you'd have to build silencer boxes to control the noise issue, and probably add a correctly sized fan to move the right amount of air, but that wouldn't be too hard to do. This would be your least expensive option.

The studio has been a huge financial hole and there is nothing left to spend really, except maybe on a fan for the vents, a humidifier and a heater with a thermostat.

Why would you want a humidifier if the room is already humid? I guess that was supposed to be "dehumidifier"? And I doubt you'd need much of a heater, with seven PSUs and 4 speaker amps. Even on idle, those things must be pumping out quite a few BTU's... Maybe a kilowatt between them? Should be enough to warm that small room. So figure out the power consumption on those, then you can calculate how much heat they are putting out, and check if it is enough to keep that room at the correct temperature when the door is closed.

On the other hand, the cost of a fan, a dehumidifier and a heater is probably about the same as the cost of a small mini-split system sized correctly for that room...

there is nothing left to spend really,

I hate to sound harsh and unfeeling, but if there is no money, then there is also no solution. Its that simple. A fan is NOT going to solve this, since all it does is move air. If the air is already at 80% RH, then it is no use to you. Bringing in air from outside is also not going to solve it, and neither is pumping air out into the store room. The ONLY thing that is going to solve is to properly circulate the correct amount of air for that room size, that latent heat load, and that sensible heat load. The best two ways of doing that are hooking in to the CR HVAC system, or installing a correctly dimensioned mini-split system, specifically for that room.

If there's no money to do one or the other of those, then there is no way that the space can be usable as a machine room.



- Stuart -

[hywyn]

Stuart, I really appreciate your reply.

"the concern is that air already present that could be drawn into the store may already be quite humid.".... That's the basic question: Where is the humidity coming from? You should probably try to identify the original source, so it can be fixed.

It could be rising damp or just in the brick-work as there was a leak from above some time ago....the brickwork is 75cm deep and without knowing how long the leak had been going on, - if the bricks have become damp, a concern is that this could take some time to dry out. The plan shows some of the wall is exterior wall (to the right of the Electrics room) and there is a small lean-to roof above that, - that is where the water ingress occurred. I took occupation in May of last year and so I guess the leak had been long established. The leak was sealed and the room appeared to dry out, but humidity levels are still very high. They are approx 70% in the store next door though also.

"The humidity is constantly high at around 80%.".....Something is amiss here.... 80% RH is way too high for a studio in any case, and also way, way too high for a machine room. It should be in the range 45% to 55% for a machine room. Most data centers set their humidity alarms at 40% (low) and 60% (high), with automatic shut-off at 30%(low) and 70%(high). Your level is far beyond the level where most machine rooms have already shut themselves down, to protect the equipment.
My first suggestion would be to NOT OPERATE your gear at all, until you fix the problem. With humidity that high, and cold temperatures, water condensation inside your gear is a very real risk.

Yes, I'm going to move it all out of there. Thanks for alert!

OK, here's the issue: Based on your diagram, it seems the machine room is right next to the control room. The control, of course, does have a properly designed HVAC system that is already supplying air at around 40%RH and 23°C. It would probably be pretty easy to bleed off some of that conditioned air from there into the machine room, and return the exhaust air from the machine room into the CR HVAC system return ducts. It's not a big room, and I would assume that if the CR is properly designed then the HVAC system has some spare capacity, so that would be the best choice. Of course, you'd have to build silencer boxes to control the noise issue, and probably add a correctly sized fan to move the right amount of air, but that wouldn't be too hard to do. This would be your least expensive option.

On the plan above Studio 1, there is a small room to the right (room 13 on the plan). This is a Machine Room, - purpose built, with HVAC bleed from Studio 1 already installed. The solution is there! However, in order to run cables to that room, the floor needs to come up...the studio was purpose built for a client and did not consider future operation - and why should it have?

"The studio has been a huge financial hole and there is nothing left to spend really, except maybe on a fan for the vents, a humidifier and a heater with a thermostat."..... Why would you want a humidifier if the room is already humid? I guess that was supposed to be "dehumidifier"? And I doubt you'd need much of a heater, with seven PSUs and 4 speaker amps. Even on idle, those things must be pumping out quite a few BTU's... Maybe a kilowatt between them? Should be enough to warm that small room. So figure out the power consumption on those, then you can calculate how much heat they are putting out, and check if it is enough to keep that room at the correct temperature when the door is closed.

On the other hand, the cost of a fan, a dehumidifier and a heater is probably about the same as the cost of a small mini-split system sized correctly for that room...

Yep, I did mean dehumidifier and not humidifier.
I believe, despite the fact that a split system may in fact be cheaper than lifting the floor and putting a new one in place, in order to get to the previously installed control room - given the challenges presented and 'unknowns' regarding the moisture ingress, it is the only logical course of action.

"there is nothing left to spend really" .....I hate to sound harsh and unfeeling, but if there is no money, then there is also no solution. Its that simple. A fan is NOT going to solve this, since all it does is move air. If the air is already at 80% RH, then it is no use to you. Bringing in air from outside is also not going to solve it, and neither is pumping air out into the store room. The ONLY thing that is going to solve is to properly circulate the correct amount of air for that room size, that latent heat load, and that sensible heat load. The best two ways of doing that are hooking in to the CR HVAC system, or installing a correctly dimensioned mini-split system, specifically for that room.

If there's no money to do one or the other of those, then there is no way that the space can be usable as a machine room.

I kinda went for the apocalyptic choice of words there! Of course money will have to be found - the show must go on. But the harsh reality has to be addressed and you have highlighted the seriousness of the problem, which has been gnawing at me, despite the gaps in my understanding. I'm very grateful to you for your time and analysis of the situation.

Any further observations, will be very welcome!
Kind regards,
Steve