Underground (partially)

[Kingwhistle]

I am looking for a property for my family with space to build my studio in a separate building.
I would like to build it mostly underground, about 50'x35' with at least 16' height. Because of two main factors:
1. Cooling (constant temps are easy to maintain underground)
2. Soundproofing

If the building comes out of the ground about 10 feet, that's fine. Maybe let light in from the top???

Anyway, my question is;
Does anyone have information about underground studios? How to build? What to watch out for? Advantages, disadvantages?

[Soundman2020]

Hi "Kingwhistle". Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things!

Does anyone have information about underground studios? How to build? What to watch out for? Advantages, disadvantages?

It's not much different from building a house with a basement. Same caveats apply. Advantage: Slightly easier to isolate acoustically, assuming there's nothing complicated, resonant, low-mass or unsealed above. Disadvantage: more expensive, more complex to build, possible humidity and/or moisture and/or water issues if not done correctly, no possibility of windows facing outwards, hard to expand in the future, more complex to have bathroom / kitchenette included (water doesn't drain uphill very well....).

That's about it.

1. Cooling (constant temps are easy to maintain underground)

Not much difference here: a well isolated studio is automatically a well insulated studio, so you'd need roughly the same type/capacity HVAC system in both cases.

2. Soundproofing

Small advantage, yes. But only if "whatever is above" is also built correctly.

about 50'x35' with at least 16' height.

That's a pretty big studio! Even many commercial facilities aren't that big. What rooms do you want to put in there, how many of each, and what sizes are you envisioning? In 1,750 ft2 you could have several rooms. Is this going to be a multi-purpose facility?

More info would help, to get better answers!


- Stuart -

[Kingwhistle]

Oh thank you for the response.

> hmmm. water doesn't run uphill. I hadn't thought of that. A bathroom is necessary, so, this might not be a great idea.
> only small advantage on the soundproofing? I would have thought that underground would be very easier and cheaper to achieve "tomb-like" quality of isolation. I am in the Southwest (Las Vegas), so it's very dry here. I suppose all of the concrete walls (underground retaining walls) would be very expensive. I hadn't thought that through.
> Right now my studio is a single room, about 25x20, wood floor. (I have a large 6x4 closet which I use as a guitar cabinet booth). I enjoy producing/engineering in a single room setup. But, I would like better isolation from the outside world, higher ceilings, and just a little more floor space. Maybe 35x25 is a more reasonable desire I record live drums quite a bit and I want a great sounding room for drums!

Originally, we were looking for property with a "casita" (mother-in-law house?) which I could soundproof for the studio. Looks like that plan may be back in action.

Thank you for your help. Maybe I should plan above ground

[Soundman2020]

> hmmm. water doesn't run uphill. I hadn't thought of that. A bathroom is necessary, so, this might not be a great idea.

There are solutions for that, such as upward-flushing toilets, using pumps and suchlike, or burying your sewerage system very deep, but they add cost, once again.

> only small advantage on the soundproofing? I would have thought that underground would be very easier and cheaper to achieve "tomb-like" quality of isolation.

Well, yes, you would get good isolation, for sure, but the cost of doing so vs. building the exact same structure above ground is always going to be higher. For example, let's say you figured out that for your "underground" studio, you'd need to use 6" concrete walls. If you were to build those exact same 6" concrete walls above ground, you would save on the excavation costs, plus the costs of installing the rain water drainage system, double-sealing the walls, doing the back fill, etc. And a 6" concrete wall is going to get you pretty good isolation to start with: it would make the perfect outer-leaf for a studio. The thing is, you would not NEED those 6" concrete walls if you built above ground, as there are other alternatives, but for the sake of comparing apples to apples, if that's what you needed underground then it makes sense to compare against the same thing above ground.

So that's the point I was trying to make: yes you would get good isolation underground, but the exact same building built above ground would also give you good isolation, simply because building underground requires massive, strong walls that just happen to be good for isolation above ground too: They key to isolation is mass. Lots of it. Building below ground gives you the mass of the walls, plus the mass of the entire planet around you, but it turns out that if you put the same structure above ground, it would have good isolation anyway.

Of course, if you compare the underground build to a typical above-ground house, built with wood framing, siding and drywall, then the underground studio beats that hands down, many times over, for isolation. But that's not comparing apples to apples...

I am in the Southwest (Las Vegas), so it's very dry here.

Yep, but it does rain there sometimes, and when it does, it pours! I've been in Vegas a few times when it has rained, and because the city is not really built for that, it becomes a problem very quickly. For example, a simple problem: You would have to have stairs going down into your underground studio, and that would be fine most of the time, but when it rains, the water would run down your stairs and in through the front door... Unless you built in a proper drainage system to take care of that. That's money that would only be working for you a couple of times per year, when it rains, and the rest of the time it would just sit there. If you build your house above ground, the stairs go up, not down, so there's no danger of water running up your stairs and into the studio....

But, I would like better isolation from the outside world, higher ceilings, and just a little more floor space

You can get all of that without needing to go underground: the only reason you might need to go down, is if there is a height limit on how far you can go up. Many building codes do impose limits, so check your local codes to find out. If that would prevent you from getting 16" ceilings, then you could go down a couple of feet, just far enough that you can still get 16" and stay inside the regs.

Maybe 35x25 is a more reasonable desire

That's still a nice large space for a studio! I have designed studios in less space than that with a control room, a live room, a vocal booth, a drum room, a bathroom, a kitchenette, and a lobby / entrance area.... That's plenty of space to build a really nice studio.

record live drums quite a bit and I want a great sounding room for drums!

Then you certainly do need high ceilings and a spacious live room! But if you are doing a multi-room place, then the other rooms don't need to be as big. For example, you don't also need 16" ceilings in the vocal booth, CR, bathroom lobby, kitchenette, etc. With careful design, you can keep your costs down by only having big rooms and high ceilings/roof where you really need it. Here's an idea: you could do a split-level studio, where the LR is partly sunk underground so it can have high ceilings, but the rest is at ground level with more normal ceiling heights... that way, you simplify the roof construction, since it can all be one level, and you reduce costs, since most of the rooms are built with lower walls, etc.

Thank you for your help. Maybe I should plan above ground

There are lots of options! The most important thing is that you design it carefully and build it right, regardless of whether you do it at ground level, or below.


- Stuart -

[Kingwhistle]

Thanks for the help.
I think we will switch to looking for a property with a large enough "casita", and turn that into the studio. Your comparison makes good sense.
I'm sure I will be reading/posting here in the future.