Baseboard heaters and soundproofing

[ZSXI]

TLDR: Do in-wall space heaters defeat the purpose of soundproofing a wall? And of course I mean when the heaters are not running...

Hi all, I am getting ready to renovate an existing space into a single room studio. My soundproofing needs are not too extreme as I don't have neighbors close by. I do want to build a small Exchange Chamber / Equipment Room adjacent to this room (the adjacent space is a garage) similar to the one described in Rod's book. It will house some storage, a cooling unit of some kind with ductwork and computer equipment. Consequently I'd like to make this room as soundproof as possible, either with extra insulation and drywall layers or a second wall (3 leaf). I'm still working out the details.

In any case, the studio room has several in-wall space heaters (similar to the pic) along that one wall. I'm concerned about whether they will defeat any attempt at soundproofing that wall as they probably have a very low STC value. I'm not sure whether they are sealed from the back side or not but they are most likely a thin metal shell containing the heater guts, etc.

Should I even bother trying to keep them? I'd like to if possible. Knowing there will be some kind of duct between the two walls I suppose this may be a non-issue. Either way the wall will have holes in it. Also I don't intend to run the heaters very often, mainly on cold nights. Obviously they make noise when running but that's something I can work with.

[stevev]

hi ZSXI,

you've left out a bunch of info which anyone will need in order to give you a comprehensive answer. You'll find the 'BEFORE YOU POST' thread at the top.

....short answer.....yep, it's a hole in the wall. It's not good for isloation.

cheers,

Steve

[ZSXI]

I thought I was fairly thorough. Not a ton of detail but it's not a complicated question either. I know writing a small novel is a sure way to get ignored. But...

Some things I would add:

Room is construction is pretty "standard" (i.e. drywall, 2x4 framing w/ insulation). The floor is a single concrete slab for the whole building. I don't have specific noise reduction goals as of yet but as I said, I'd like to do a fairly good job of isolating a PC and HVAC unit (probably split duct of moderate size) from the main room - which is about 3600 cu ft.

Initially the HVAC will be a portable indoor unit since I already have one. Since it will sit on a concrete slab I don't think noise transmission along that path will be too great. But it will certainly be loud until I get a better one.

I have lots of plans/questions for the main room but don't want to throw them at folks all at once. So noise isolation from the outside world is not a consideration here.

And again, I am still working out the details on this small room. It will likely be an isolated room-within-a-room. My main question is about the in-wall heaters which make holes in one side of the wall. A secondary question is whether a split duct HVAC system would really be that quiet since the air handler will share the same exterior wall. Hopefully this meets the basic requirements (yes I did read them) and hopefully the drawing below helps a bit too...

[stevev]

I thought I was fairly thorough. Not a ton of detail but it's not a complicated question either.

and hence, you got an uncomplicated answer.

Room is construction is pretty "standard" (i.e. drywall, 2x4 framing w/ insulation)

does this building have an outer shell or is it part of a larger building? what are the ceilings made of? what is the roof made of?

The floor is a single concrete slab for the whole building.

that's good news.

I don't have specific noise reduction goals

you need to figure that one out as it's the figure that dictates how you construct your building right from the outset.

I have lots of plans/questions for the main room but don't want to throw them at folks all at once. So noise isolation from the outside world is not a consideration here.

the room you are building next to the studio IS effectivly the outside world. Have you got any idea what the operating sound levels are of the equipment you'll have in that room is? That's what will dictate how you build that room, and following that, how you build your studio walls.

It will likely be an isolated room-within-a-room.

best way to do it.

My main question is about the in-wall heaters which make holes in one side of the wall.

once you figure out a db reading for how loud the eqiupment in your stoarge room will be, and a reading for how much isolation your wall with the heaters in is giving you, then you can say whether or not it's feasible for the heaters to stay. If your wall with heaters is giving you 20db of TL and your equipment is running at 75db, then you'll need to build your equipment room to isolate 55db. It might then be a question of whether you can sacrifice the wall heaters (and up the TL of the wall) so you don't have to build as heavy for your equipment room.

cheers,

Steve

[ZSXI]

does this building have an outer shell or is it part of a larger building? what are the ceilings made of? what is the roof made of?

It's a room within the larger building (with 3 common walls). The (9ft) ceiling is drywall/joist/insulation with an area above it open to the rest of the building. The roof above that is composition shingle. I attached another drawing to help illustrate. One question (for a future thread) will be how to leverage that overhead space for better acoustics, perhaps by opening up part of the ceiling and adding a superchunk of sorts in the "attic".

once you figure out a db reading for how loud the eqiupment in your stoarge room will be, and a reading for how much isolation your wall with the heaters in is giving you, then you can say whether or not it's feasible for the heaters to stay. If your wall with heaters is giving you 20db of TL and your equipment is running at 75db, then you'll need to build your equipment room to isolate 55db. It might then be a question of whether you can sacrifice the wall heaters (and up the TL of the wall) so you don't have to build as heavy for your equipment room.

This is making me realize one major problem -- I don't know exactly what kind of HVAC system I will place in there -- or even require. Maybe I'll get lucky and only need minimal cooling. The PC is an easy target, ~50dBa. So I guess the real problem is deciding whether I can build the room for now with a certain noise level in mind, then remove the heaters later, if necessary. I have a portable unit that is hopefully as loud as it gets (being self contained) and could start my design with that figure in mind.

Thanks again for the responses. I know enough about this stuff to be dangerous, but still have a hundred questions and don't want to wear out my welcome too soon.

[stevev]

One question (for a future thread) will be how to leverage that overhead space for better acoustics, perhaps by opening up part of the ceiling and adding a superchunk of sorts in the "attic".

Hmmm...opening up part of a ceiling suggests quite a lack of symmetry, and in turn, makes building a control room difficult. I'd definitely file that one under 'for a future thread', and definitley post up the thread before you start cutting any holes

This is making me realize one major problem -- I don't know exactly what kind of HVAC system I will place in there -- or even require. Maybe I'll get lucky and only need minimal cooling.

So as a starting point, I've installed two Daiken Ururu Sarara units in my studio. One for each room. They both require an external unit and head unit like a normal split system, but also do air exchange. I've been running them for about 18 months now and I personally think they're the way to go. I've actually left the one in the live room on whilst recording. When they're 'maintaining' the air temp they are very, very quiet ie: unable to be heard in a mic.

As for getting lucky, don't count on it...once you've got your control room sealed up air-tight it doesn't take long for gear to heat up the space. I'm fortunate in that I have a control room which I can have the air-con running for cool-down in without affecting the live room, which generally has the heat on to maintan temp.

Thanks again for the responses. I know enough about this stuff to be dangerous, but still have a hundred questions and don't want to wear out my welcome too soon.

Yeah, definitely, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing but posting up here before you start out is a really, really, really great idea. Good move. There's a bunch of guys here who know way more than I do, and who can give you some great advice.

If you give everyone the information they need then you certainly won't wear out your welcome by asking questions. It's the guy's who ask questions like 'tell me where to buy an off the shelf kit to sound-proof my bedroom so I can play drums on the second floor at 2am without waking up the rest of the house' that wear a little thin:D

cheers,

Steve