New Solid Log Wall Studio floor plan suggestions

[rockwellpro]

Hello everyone! I've been a project studio owner in upstate New York for the past 20 years ( http://www.rockwellpro.com )and I'm now about to embark on the construction of a new studio. I am also a dealer for the Original Lincoln Logs ( http://www.brookridgeloghomes.com ) and I wish to incorporate my two passions in one building. I will be building a new model home for my log home biz (a side business of mine for the past 12 years) with an attached studio where the outer walls are solid, air-dried logs with a D-Log profile (round on outside, flat on inside). I'm trying to limit the building's dimensions to 24' x 42' (for now) with a base log wall height of 9'. I've come up with a preliminary design that provides a 23' x 20' Live Room and a 23' x 18'6" Control Room. I've attached a photo of my primary layout idea for everyone's critiques & suggestions. Please note that the bump-out on the right side is an enclosed breezeway to my house. I've tried to keep non-parallel walls in mind and make sure their dimensions aren't divisible by one another. The studio will be in a country location (as all log homes should be), so the only exterior sound concerns are occasional back road traffic and small planes from an airport roughly 1 mile away.

Although I record all styles of music my goal is to create a comfortable recording environment for accurately capturing acoustic genres as well as the typical rock band. After 20 years in the biz I'd say my clientele breaks down to 35% acoustic artists (singer/songwriter, acoustic bands of various genres, classical), 35% bands (funk, rock, reggae, jam-band, R&B, country, jazz, metal), 15% hip-hop/Rap and 15% Voiceover/Corporate work. I since I occasionally record small choral ensembles as well as 6-10 piece bands, I want to make sure that the live room is suitable for slightly larger groups. With regards to the design-

1) should I make the control room narrower to allow for a small client seating area (outside of the control room) or possibly for another equipment closet? My current control room is 19' wide by 14' deep and I know I want the new room to be deeper than it is wide.

2) I'm considering a traditional peaked cathedral ceiling (deciding between a cathedral truss for maximum insulation versus 2x12 rafters for maximum height) for the live room, but possibly a ceiling that slopes up from the window for the control room to the back of the room (via a custom truss). Having a matching cathedral to the live room would be least expensive, but I'm wondering if acoustics would be better with a ceiling that slopes from window to the back of the room. Thoughts?

3) Should I eliminate the angled walls in any area and address acoustics by other means? I'm a dealer for Auralex, so I will likely incorporate some of their products regardless.

4) Is there another layout that one thinks would be more beneficial- aka shrinking the size of the Live Room or Control Room in favor of a drum booth or other iso rooms and/or a small lounge (FYI I'm not intending to have plumbing, but maybe a fridge, microwave, couch & TV)?

I'm planning to have a rustic motiv inside with 1 or 2 decorative trusses in the Live Room. Increasing the length or width of the structure maybe possible, but only as a last resort. Also considering the possible future addition of a rear drum booth bump-out where the double window is in the live room if I need expansion down the road. Looking forward to everyone's suggestions...
Justin Metz
Rockwell Productions Recording & Music Studios
upstate NY
http://www.rockwellpro.com

[Soundman2020]

Hi Justin. Welcome.

Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things!

That said, there's a few things that I would change if that were my room. It's a really nice sized studio, so there are great possibilities here. I'm working on a design for a similar space for a client right now, and we went through quite a few iterations before settling on the final basic design, so there's a few things that are fresh in my mind.

But first some general comments, with the suggestions for improvement incorporated into that.

I'm trying to limit the building's dimensions to 24' x 42' (for now) with a base log wall height of 9'.

As I said, that's a good sized studio, but can you go any higher? In acoustics, higher ceilings are generally better (especially for the live room, and especially since you show a grand piano in there! Grands can use lots of room volume to sound their best). So if there's a way to get your walls and ceiling up higher, I'd consider that. The CR isn't so important here, but the LR is.

I've tried to keep non-parallel walls in mind

That's a bit of a myth, actually! The mantra of "No parallel walls!" isn't really necessary. Yes, it can be beneficial for certain acoustic issues, but it is not the major "be-all and end-all" solution that it is made out to be. In fact, it is absolutely possible to build a fantastic studio as a perfect rectangular prism, with all walls parallel... provided that it is designed properly and treated properly.

Splaying the walls helps with flutter echo. If you angle your walls more than 12° total (any combination: Eg. 6° on each wall, or 8° on one and 4° on the other, or 11° on one and 1° on the other) then you can say goodbye to flutter echo. However, flutter echo is the least of your concerns, and can be dealt with in many other ways, with various types of treatment. So it's no big deal.

Another reason you might want to splay your walls is if you want to go with an RFZ design (or one of its derivatives) for your control room, which is a really good idea, and it does look like you are heading in that direction. In that case, the angles have to be carefully figured out using a process called "ray tracing", to make sure that you have the optimum angle.

And one other reason you might want to splay your walls is simply because it looks cool! Apart from those three reasons, there aren't any other valid acoustic reasons for doing so. Some people claim that making walls non-parallel eliminates room modes, and they are sort of right, but not really: yes, if you splay a pair of walls enough then you can reduce the axial modes associated with that pair of walls, but at the same time you are creating several new tangential and oblique modes. So what you gained in one area, you lost in another. Besides, the amount of splay that you'd need is not trivial, and you might end up sending reflections some place they should not be going...

So that's my way of saying that you do not NEED to splay your walls, but you can if you want, or if you have a specific acoustic purpose in mind, but then it should be done based on the design principles associated with those purposes. In your case, the way you are angling the front walls of your control room is actually working against you, for several reasons.

make sure their dimensions aren't divisible by one another.

That's part of it, yes, but there's a lot more to getting a good room ratio (and hence good modal spread) than just checking for multiples of two. Plug your dimensions into one of these two modal calculators, to see how they stack up:

http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm
http://amroc.andymel.eu/

Both of those do a really good job of showing you how the modal response will be, as well as several other chunks of very useful information.

1) should I make the control room narrower to allow for a small client seating area (outside of the control room) or possibly for another equipment closet? My current control room is 19' wide by 14' deep and I know I want the new room to be deeper than it is wide.

It sounds like you are talking about wanting to have a "green room" area? A sort of "chill out" lounge, where musicians and clients can relax, drink coffee, watch a movie, check e-mail, talk on the phone, etc, in an area outside of the actual acoustic shell of the studio?

It should be possible to work that into the overall design, yes, but not at the expense of the CR. If you are going to do that, I'd suggest that you also consider adding a small bathroom, a kitchenette, and a storage closet of some sort in that same area.

2) ... Having a matching cathedral to the live room would be least expensive, but I'm wondering if acoustics would be better with a ceiling that slopes from window to the back of the room. Thoughts?

The ceiling in the LR can be pretty much whatever you want, with "higher = better" being part of it, and good isolation being another part of it. But for the LR, there are some fairly rigid requirements. First and foremost is symmetry. The room should be as symmetric as you can possibly make it, such that the left half is a mirror image of the right half, at least for the front part of the room (the rear isn't so critical): And that applies to the ceiling too: The inner-leaf ceiling of your CR has to be symmetrical (although the outer leaf doesn't need to be). Next is reflections: there's a major first reflection point up there on your ceiling somewhere, and that has to be taken into account, so from that point of view it is indeed a good idea to angle your ceiling upwards (lower over the speakers, higher over the client couch)... Provided that you do so at the correct angle! Once again, it's not just any old angle: it has to be figured out carefully. Third is modal issues: If it looks like you might have a problem with vertical axial modes, then angling your ceiling might help with that, perhaps... But then again, a large, angled hard-backed cloud would also help, and can look pretty cool too!

3) Should I eliminate the angled walls in any area and address acoustics by other means? I'm a dealer for Auralex, so I will likely incorporate some of their products regardless.

as I mentioned above, angled walls do not help much at all for room treatment, except in the cases I mentioned. You will still need treatment in your room regardless of how much or how little you angle the walls. Splaying walls does not eliminate the need for treatment at all. In fact, it has very little effect on the treatment (it only really affects position and dimensions of the treatment, to a certain extent).

4) Is there another layout that one thinks would be more beneficial-

Yes! There are many things that could be done here. To start with, your access paths are not very practical. Right now, you have to go through the vocal booth to get from the CR to the LR, and when you are setting up mics in the LR and want to check them on the CR monitors, that long multi-door pathway could get very tired, very quick... (opening and closing four heavy doors on each trip... hmmm!) Ditto for someone in the LR who need to get to the CR, but the vocal booth is in use... they have to go out the main doors, all the way around the building, and back in through the side doors... not much fun. I'd rethink that.

I'd also rethink the entire front end of the control room, and re-design it as a proper RFZ layout, with soffit-mounted speakers, correct splay angles, etc....

Sight-lines are also an issue, it seems. Need more work there.

In general, the overall shape and layout are not so good, and could be much better.

There's also the issue of overall isolation. You only show isolation in one very small area: the window between the LR and CR, but nowhere else? Also, you a huge 16" gap in there, so clearly you are very concerned about isolation, but then you don't have isolation anywhere else! That's kind of like building an aquarium, and deciding that you only want to look at your fish from the front, so you only bother putting glass on that side of the frame... It won't hold water very well like that! The rest of your walls are not isolated at all... So that's something else that needs to be fixed: the isolation has to be the same on all walls, and the floor, and the ceiling, and the windows, and the doors, and the HVAC system, and the electrical system... Isolation is a complete, integrated system that surrounds the rooms, and is designed properly to do the job. Having a an impressive 16" air gap on one tiny part of one wall is not going to accomplish much.

Also considering the possible future addition of a rear drum booth bump-out where the double window is in the live room if I need expansion down the road.

If you plan to build any type of addition in the future, the it has to be designed NOW, to be fully integrated into the overall plan, both visually and acoustically (as well as practically). Even if you don't plan to actually build it right now, it still has to be designed right now as part of the entire studio, so that it can be added in later with only minimal inconvenience. Even something simple like cable routing could make your drum booth addition into a major nightmare, if not done now. A drum kit needs a whole bunch of mics on it, plus returns, all linked to the control room: how would you install those at some point in the future,k without first ripping apart both the LR and CR in order to gain access to the points that you need? If you plan it now, then you can have that conduit already in place, so all you need to do is to pop the seals off and pull the cables through when the time comes. Ditto for tying the new booth into the HVAC and electrical systems, as well as creating the doors and windows with good access paths and sightlines.... All of those are critical, and if not taken into account and planned for now, would be a major headache when the time comes.

So overall, I'd suggest that you re-think the overall layout first, and decide on which design concept you want to follow for your control room (I'd suggest RFZ), then look for a set of dimensions based around that, that gives you good modal response, then adjust the angles and layout as needed, based around your main speakers, and design the basic CR treatment, according to AES specs (or ITU/EBU, or EBC, whichever you fancy). Then find a location for the CR within the over footprint where that fits in well. Then add in the other rooms to the rest of the space, taking into account the sight lines, access paths, traffic flow, door swings, etc. Then design the walls, ceilings, floors, doors, windows and HVAC to the level of isolation that you need, then fill in the remaining details, adjusting all along as needed. That's the basic method for designing studios.

Hope that helps a bit!


- Stuart -

[rockwellpro]

Stuart, thank you for your prompt and informative reply. First thing I will do is re-read the rules for posting to see what additional info I should include. I was actually considering a few of your extremely valid points in my overall design, but just hadn't included them in this preliminary layout.

1) Regarding isolation, I actually consider the angled storage closet and vocal booth as part of the isolation design (rather than just the 16" air gap between studio windows). My mindset (although possibly not best) was that those rooms act as an additional air gap isolation to divide the live room from the control room. The live room is actually completely separate from the control room. I have a similar design in my current studio. The walls were built on a 2x6 floating wall construction (1/2" rubber on top/bottom plate of framing). Walls are filled with 4" of Mineral Fiber Insulation. Then I mounted 5/8" drywall to Resilient Channel, followed by a layer of Auralex's SheetBlok and then another layer of 5/8" drywall. This was mounted to both sides of each wall. The outer walls are 6 9/16" thick solid log (air-dried eastern white pine) with minimal windows. These logs actually seem to have incredible noise reducing/reflecting properties (I've been in log homes on major roads and you hear no traffic noise from inside). Given my rural location, I THINK that should be sufficient for keeping the outside noise isolated (and I'd prefer to have the log aesthetic as part of the interior design). In my current studio I have roughly 65 db drop between live room and ctrl room and about a 38 db drop between vocal booth and cntrl room. My biggest complaint in the current space is that I didn't angle the big windows which creates some flutter when a band/bassist is rockin' out (plus budget limited me to consumer double pane windows vs studio glass).

2) 9' Wall height- I just wanted to clarify that the ceiling would ultimately be higher than 9'- 9' is just the base wall height at the outside wall. If I did a 6:12 roof pitch in the live room with cathedral ceiling, the ceiling would slope up to roughly 13' at the peak with a scissor truss or 15' with 2x12 rafters. In the control room, I would need a truss roof to create the sloped ceiling, so I'm estimating it would slope up from 9' at the front window to 12'-13' at the client seating area. I'm assuming roof trusses would be better than rafters because they naturally create an air gap and allow for a larger variety of insulation layers. Are these heights adequate or am I still falling short (pun intended)?

3) Angled Walls/Wall treatments- I think you answered my question. My point was that I intend to have Auralex room treatments incorporated into the design (for their functionality and for a 'showroom' since I sell them), so I was wondering how important the angles were versus 90 degree angled walls. Sounds like they aren't that important, but not a bad idea. At the same time, while my current studio is very modern/space aged, I want this new studio to be very rustic to compliment the log motiv, so I don't want to overdue the foam on the walls. I'm hoping the log walls will actually create a cool tone to the room.

4) Better layout- LOL that's why I'm here. The only point that I kind of disagree with that you made is with regards to the vocal booth. I've been in numerous professionally designed studios who have incorporated this technique. I agree it isn't ideal, but my assumption was that given my comparably limited space a dual function passageway/vocal booth would be better than adding a wasted space hallway which would mean reducing the size of the main rooms. I've been using this design in my current studio and I typically place mics in the 'point' of the booth so they are out of the traffic flow. Both doors would be acoustic doors with windows for easy visual for vocalist to mix station as well as musicians in the live room. That being said, if there's a better way to make everything fit and function that's what I want to learn (I have a studio technology degree, but you forget a lot over 20 years especially with regard to physics). That being said, I could reduce the width of the studio from 23' to say 17' which would allow for a green room hallway and vocal booth, but a well functioning control room is my biggest concern (if what I'm hearing in the ctrl room is accurate, I can employ mic placement and mixing techniques to sculpt the sound, plus that's where I'll be spending most of my time).

I was considering the idea of a small green room only because I currently have to deal with clients making noise in the back of the control room while I'm recording overdubs or mixing. I do have a 1/2 bath at the entry way. If budget allows, I could increase the size of the entry (a breezeway) to allow for at least a little seating and maybe a small fridge with microwave on top. Otherwise, I would need to re-appropriate space from the 24x42 structure.

My biggest concern is having a well functioning control room. I want to have a space that helps me create a mix that will accurately translate to other locations (without coloring the mix or creating major bass issues that need to be addressed). My current ctrl room only has 9' ceilings and is only 14' deep. I've come to learn that it doesn't have enough reflective surfaces (carpeted floors, Auralex Metro and Venus Bass Traps on front wall, Aurlex Genesis & Venus Bass Traps on other walls). Currently my monitors are Dynaudio BM-6 and a pair of circa 1980's Auratone 5c. The 'horatones' have actually helped my mixes a lot with respect to addressing overall midrange and I've come to learn where the bass modes are heaviest in the room, but always searching for the better design.

5) Cable Routing/Additions- I completely agree. My first professional job was re-wiring an entire (large) performance ampitheatre in upstate NY ( Saratoga Performing Arts Center or SPAC). I thoroughly enjoy thinking 10 steps ahead and having structured wiring installed for future expansion. Since the exterior walls are solid log, I'm bouncing between a built in bench along the right wall to house HVAC and cabling runs or considering a trap door for floor access to cabling.

I really appreciate the insight this forum provides. The construction of this studio will be a part of an overall construction of a new log home, so I'm trying to do as much planning and designing as possible to make sure I'm investing wisely. Unfortunately, the budget for this project is not limitless so I will be looking for the best bang for the buck and that's why I'm trying to limit the size of the structure to roughly 1000 sq ft. I'll be doing a fair portion of the interior completion myself to help keep costs down (or allow me more for my money). My final question is how much should I consider spending to have an acoustic designer design the interior of the structure? Since I am a dealer for The Original Lincoln Logs, I don't need the engineering of the exterior structure (they'll take care of that for me), just the room/ceiling layouts etc?

Thanks again for your suggestions and insight, I'm looking forward to your reply.
-Justin Metz
owner, Rockwell Productions Recording & Music Studios
Nassau, NY
www.rockwellpro.com

[rockwellpro]

Stuart- I reviewed the rules for posting again and I think I covered almost everything, but here are a few additional specifics:

-Build site- Columbia or Rensselaer County in Upstate NY. I'm currently searching for land. It will be a rural location with no neighbors nearby and minimal traffic. Ideally looking at a summer 2015 construction (I'm about to put our current home/studio up for sale).

-Budget- this will be a portion of the overall build of a new home that will function as my Original Lincoln Logs display model (for log home sales), my recording studio and my private residence. The studio will be a custom adaptation of a 3.5 car garage in solid log attached via a breezeway entry to the main house. As such HVAC will be a separate zone to the primary structure. Electrical will likely be tied into the overall structure's electric service, but may have its own breaker box with separate ground (will obviously have isolated electric from the rest of the house). As such my initial overall budget for the studio is $75k. At the moment I'm assuming a crawl space foundation rather than a concrete slab, for better floor isolation as well as installation of finished flooring. Since I'm a log home dealer as well as a dealer for Auralex and Horizon/Rapco cabling, I'm assuming the shell construction, electric & HVAC runs will cost me roughly $45k which is allowing me around $30k for the interior completion (interior wall/ceiling finishing, insulation, studio doors/windows, cabling, flooring, Auralex treatments).

-How loud- The volume of the artists I record can vary greatly from a solo guitar to a death metal band. However, I'm most noted for my work with recording acoustic instruments (guitars, strings, world percussion etc). I traditionally keep my mix volumes low so my 42 year old ears keep working

-Dimensions:
-Overall Building 24'x42' exterior (23'x41' interior) is my goal, but not set in stone
-Live Room 23'x 20' x 9' to 13' cathedral ceiling
-Control Room- 23' x 18'6" x 9' to 12'/13' sloped ceiling

[Soundman2020]

I reviewed the rules for posting again and I think I covered almost everything,

Excellent! But you missed one... It's in big blue letters, about half way down the page. Rule number 03...

As such HVAC will be a separate zone to the primary structure.

That's a very smart move, as it ensures that there won't be any sound leakage between studio and house, in either direction.

Electrical will likely be tied into the overall structure's electric service, but may have its own breaker box with separate ground (will obviously have isolated electric from the rest of the house).

It's an excellent plan to have a totally separate distribution panel (breaker box) for the studio, but probably not so good to have a separate ground. There's a risk of creating a ground loop like that, which could inject noise into the system. It is far better to have one excellent ground for the entire building (properly buried copper grid, not just a copper rod hammered into the ground), then use substantial copper conductors to get that to your main panel, and from there on to your sub panel in the studio. Also, make sure that you get the studio wired using the "star grounding" technique, for the same reason: to help prevent potential ground loops. When it comes time to select an electrician, that's one of the first questions to ask: can he do star grounding for the studio. If he looks at you with a strange, non-comprehending expression, then forget him, and call in teh next potential candidate!

As such my initial overall budget for the studio is $75k.

That works out to about US$75 per square foot, which is OK but would probably be on the low side for a normal build, but in your case I'm guessing that you have pretty good discounts on your outer shell materials and build, since you do that for a living! I'm betting your outer leaf will come in rather less expensive than for anyone else doing the same thing, so your budget is probably fine. Roof trusses, HVAC doors and windows will be the big-ticket items in your case, I'd guess.

At the moment I'm assuming a crawl space foundation rather than a concrete slab, for better floor isolation as well as installation of finished flooring.

That might not be such a good idea. Any floor with air under it is a potential resonant system, that could affect the room acoustics, or the isolation (or both) in ways that you weren't expecting. The vast majority of studios are built on concrete slabs these days, for that very reason. Going to raised flooring generally either increases the cost considerably to do it right, or results in a floor that gives you acoustic headaches. Concrete also makes an excellent finished floor all by itself, both acoustically and visually. It can be stained, polished or finished in other ways. Acoustically, it's hard to beat concrete for great flooring! Or if you don't like the idea of concrete, you could lay ceramic, laminate flooring, or even linoleum. They all give excellent acoustics, and some of the recent laminate flooring systems look really really good.

I traditionally keep my mix volumes low so my 42 year old ears keep working

Another smart move!

-How loud- The volume of the artists I record can vary greatly from a solo guitar to a death metal band.

So we are talking anything up to about 120 dB at the high end, and down to probably around low 50's / high 40's for the low end. So you need you be certain that you can still record your very quiet, soft, romantic guitar ballad when there's a thunderstorm going on outside, and also have your death-metal guys gruesomely murdering their equipment and instruments in the LR while your ears remain protected in the CR? Does that about sum it up? If so, I'd hazard a guess and say that you are looking for isolation in the region of 60 dB, give or take.

Regarding isolation, I actually consider the angled storage closet and vocal booth as part of the isolation design (rather than just the 16" air gap between studio windows). My mindset (although possibly not best) was that those rooms act as an additional air gap isolation to divide the live room from the control room. The live room is actually completely separate from the control room. I have a similar design in my current studio

It would work like that if you kept all of your walls decoupled, but that isn't what you are showing on the initial diagram. The two sides of the wall between LR and CR are joined on either side of the window, thus creating flanking paths.

That would only work for the storage room in any case: the vocal booth is supposed to be an isolation booth, so it too needs to be done as a proper fully-decoupled two-leaf MSM system. You can't have a room as part of the air space between two other rooms, since that implies that there is only one leaf separating it from each of the other rooms. One single leaf of isolation limits you to Mass Law, which isn't very attractive! So if you hope to record vocals in the booth with drums in the LR and have no bleed, then the booth needs to be done as a proper isolation booth, not just an empty space in the wall cavity.

The walls were built on a 2x6 floating wall construction (1/2" rubber on top/bottom plate of framing).

What type of rubber, and how were the calculations done for that? It's fairly common that people think they are floating their walls by putting rubber under them, but it's actually not that easy to float a wall: the deflection of the rubber has to calculated so that it is at its optimum point when fully loaded with the weight of the wall plus the inner-leaf ceiling. If it is not loaded enough then there is no resilience in the rubber, and it does not isolate. If it is loaded too much then it "bottoms out", over-compressing the rubber and creating a direct flanking path. Getting it right isn't so easy...

The good thing about putting rubber under the sole plates is that it does help to get a really good air-tight seal, even on an uneven floor, so from that point of view it probably did something useful for your room, but unless you did the math, it probably isn't actually floating.

Walls are filled with 4" of Mineral Fiber Insulation. Then I mounted 5/8" drywall to Resilient Channel, followed by a layer of Auralex's SheetBlok and then another layer of 5/8" drywall.

That will certainly work for a single room, but it's pretty hard to make that link up to other rooms and still retain correct 2-leaf MSM system for each room. It's much better (and cheaper) to build separate frames for each leaf, so you don't need the RC.

Also (and you probably won't like this part), you don't need the Sheet Block. I realize you are a rep for Auralex and have a vested interest in promoting their products, but that simply is not necessary. I'm not questioning whether Sheet Block works or not: it absolutely does, because it follows the same laws of physics as all other building materials, and therefor provides the advertised isolation. However, you can get the same level of isolation from less expensive materials. Sound waves cannot read price tags, so they are not impressed by running into high-priced mass. They react in the exact same manner to any type of mass, regardless of how much it cost. Mass is mass, and that's what counts. So what we recommend here on the forum is to use the lowest cost mass that will do the job. In most places around the world, that is ordinary 5/8" fire-rated drywall (although it is different in some countries, where things like plywood or fiber-cement are cheaper, pound for pound.

So if you want to use Sheet Block in your studio in order to promote the products you rep, then by all means do so: it will work. However, if you want to save money and get the same isolation, then plain old drywall is a lot cheaper and just as effective.

This was mounted to both sides of each wall.

Whoaaa! Hang on a sec... I'm not sure I understand: Are you saying that you had TWO walls between your rooms, and EACH of those walls was a stud frame with RC and drywall on BOTH sides? Something like this?:

classic-4-leaf-dual-frame.png

... with one room off to the left side of that pair of walls, and another room off to the right side? Is that the way you did it? (that diagram doesn't show the RC, but assume that it is on there).

The outer walls are 6 9/16" thick solid log (air-dried eastern white pine) with minimal windows. These logs actually seem to have incredible noise reducing/reflecting properties

Logs should actually be pretty darn good as an outer leaf: Pine has a density of somewhere around 500 to 600 kg/m3, so something 6" thick is going to have a surface density of around 80 kg/m2. That's the equivalent of about seven or eight layers of 5/8" drywall, so yep, it will be an excellent outer-leaf. My biggest concern would be with getting a really good air-tight seal between the logs. Hermetic sealing is critical for good isolation. What type of methods could you use to ensure that there are perfect seals all around?

Windows are not a problem, by the way: if you do want natural light, or if you have a great view, then it is possible to incorporate windows into the design... provided that they are non-operable windows (not openable: fixed in place), and that the surface density of the glass is matched to the MSM specs for the wall as a whole. It can be done.

In my current studio I have roughly 65 db drop between live room and ctrl room

Measured how? What weighting curve, and what sampling time did you set on the meter for measuring that? It's important...

about a 38 db drop between vocal booth and cntrl room.

... which is not much better than a typical house wall would give you! That alone tells me that there is something pretty bad wrong with the way the current studio was built. You should be getting at least 50 dB all around, between any two rooms, and hopefully over 60. If you are getting only 38, then something is badly amiss.

My biggest complaint in the current space is that I didn't angle the big windows which creates some flutter when a band/bassist is rockin' out

You mean flutter in the window glass itself? As in it is making a noise? Or do you mean flutter echo across the room along with the wall on the other side? That's two different things...

plus budget limited me to consumer double pane windows vs studio glass

Ahhh! well, that would explain it... you won't get much isolation from domestic double-glazed windows in a studio scenario. In fact, you would probably have been better off with ordinary thick window glass. But at least this time you can do it right!

2) 9' Wall height- I just wanted to clarify that the ceiling would ultimately be higher than 9'- 9' is just the base wall height at the outside wall. If I did a 6:12 roof pitch in the live room with cathedral ceiling, the ceiling would slope up to roughly 13' at the peak with a scissor truss or 15' with 2x12 rafters.

Right, but you are talking about your outer-leaf walls there, not the inner leaf. The inner-leaf walls generally need to follow the profile of the outer leaf, so that implies that the peak will be lower. With scissor trusses, the final surface of the inner-leaf will be a bit lower than the bottom edge of the trusses (unless you use complex soffits to get around that), so your ceiling height is basically limited by the trusses, not by the roof line.

In the control room, I would need a truss roof to create the sloped ceiling,

I'm not sure I understand: I assumed you were going to use one single roof for the entire outer-leaf, in which case your control room ceiling will be defined by the inner-leaf joists, which rest on the inner-leaf walls. You don't need trusses there, unless you plan to build the control room as a totally separate building, all by itself, on its own slab. And I don't see any need to do that, since you don't need extremely high levels of isolation. Why do you want to have a separate roof over the control room? Why can't you just put the control room under the same single outer-leaf roof as the other rooms?

It seems to me you are complicating your design unnecessarily. What you really need to be doing is to build a single outer-leaf shell that encloses all of the rooms, and that will be your log walls with a roof on top, then you build each room as it's own separate single-leaf wall-and-ceiling structure, that is fully decoupled from all other rooms. Done! It does not need to be more complicated than that.

3) Angled Walls/Wall treatments- I think you answered my question. My point was that I intend to have Auralex room treatments incorporated into the design (for their functionality and for a 'showroom' since I sell them), so I was wondering how important the angles were versus 90 degree angled walls. Sounds like they aren't that important, but not a bad idea.

Don't get me wrong: you will still need treatment in your rooms: there's no doubt about that. They are all small rooms, acoustically, so they will all need treatment. There'll be plenty of wall space to show off your products, and angles won't make any real difference to that. In fact, NOT splaying the walls means that you'll need a bit more absorption in key places, so if you want to maximize the possibilities for showing off your products, then that would be the way to go...

At the same time, while my current studio is very modern/space aged, I want this new studio to be very rustic to compliment the log motiv, so I don't want to overdue the foam on the walls. I'm hoping the log walls will actually create a cool tone to the room.

I must be confused here again: Are you planning to use logs for the inner-leaf walls as well? I guess you could do that if you wanted to, but it seems like a huge expense to me, and they'll take up a lot of extra space too. Inner-leaf walls are normally just done with stud framing and drywall. Do you really need to do that? Perhaps wood paneling or lots of use of wood in the finish and treatment would be a better way to go?

That being said, if there's a better way to make everything fit and function that's what I want to learn

I'll send you some stuff off-line, by PM, so you can maybe get some ideas. I can't share it on-line, as these are designs I have done for paying customers and they haven't given me their blessing to put it out in public, but they don't mind if I share in private. Later this evening or tomorrow I'll send you something.....

I was considering the idea of a small green room only because I currently have to deal with clients making noise in the back of the control room while I'm recording overdubs or mixing.

I hear ya! A very common problem... I think that's why green rooms were invented, probably.... And also why they go OUTSIDE the isolation system for the studio, where they can be as noisy as they want without affecting you...

If budget allows, I could increase the size of the entry (a breezeway) to allow for at least a little seating and maybe a small fridge with microwave on top. Otherwise, I would need to re-appropriate space from the 24x42 structure.

With a thousand square feet to play with, I think you can fit in everything comfortably. I've done multi-room studios in smaller spaces than that...

My biggest concern is having a well functioning control room. I want to have a space that helps me create a mix that will accurately translate to other locations (without coloring the mix or creating major bass issues that need to be addressed).

Excellent! That can be done with good design, good building, and good treatment. Here's the response curves for a studio that I'm just finishing tuning right now, in Missouri:

Frequency response (15Hz to 150 Hz):

d9-final-spl-15-150.jpg

Waterfall:

d9-final-waterfall-15-150.jpg

Decay: (63 Hz to 8kHz)

d9-final-rt60-63-8k.jpg

Impulse Response:

d9-final-ir.jpg

That's about as smooth and clean as you could ask for. So it can be done, for sure! But it has to be designed properly, and then built properly.

I've come to learn that it doesn't have enough reflective surfaces (carpeted floors,

Carpet? In a studio! Let me guess: it sounds sort of a bit cave like in there, with an overabundance of low end, and almost no high end at all. Dull, dead, thunky.... Is that about right?

If you are game, and want to see exactly how your old room is performing now as compared to the ITU/EBU specs, then I could walk you through the procedure to run the same type of analysis as in the graphs above. That way, you'll have a baseline to judge your new room against, and you can avoid making the same mistakes in your new room. It's not that hard to do: I'll show you how to run the tests, then you can send me the data file and I'll do the analysis for you. It might be a bit scary, though, to see how your old room really is performing...

Dynaudio BM-6

Nice. Is that the passive BM6 or the active BM6a? Are you considering upgrading those to something else for the new studio?

The 'horatones' have actually helped my mixes a lot with respect to addressing overall midrange

It's always good to have a set of speakers like those to check out how the mix might sound on typical consumer speakers. A lot of people still use NS-10's for that, but the 'horatones' are pretty good too. I'd keep those for the new place.

I've come to learn where the bass modes are heaviest in the room, but always searching for the better design.

If you take a look at the above graphs, you can see that you wouldn't have that problem at all in a room designed right and treated right! The modes are all well under control, fully damped, down to lower than you really need. Yours could be similar, if designed right.

Since the exterior walls are solid log, I'm bouncing between a built in bench along the right wall to house HVAC and cabling runs or considering a trap door for floor access to cabling.

HVAC is normally run in the wall cavities or ceiling cavities, between the outer-leaf and the inner-leaf of each room, since the ducts and silencer boxes are so big. You can do some of it inside the rooms, if you want to, but it takes up space and might look a bit strange.

The usual recommendation is to run electrical cables at the top of the walls, and signal cables down at the bottom, so that they are as far apart as possible. It's good to design the system so that they never have to cross paths, or if the do then only at an angle of 90°, to prevent inductive coupling. Also, it's important to have only one single wall penetration in each room for each type of cabling, to minimize the possibility for destroying your isolation. Internal wiring should be done with surface-mount structured systems (if the inner-leaf walls are built conventionally) or with conduit if the inner-leaf walls are built inside-out.

so I'm trying to do as much planning and designing as possible to make sure I'm investing wisely.

That's also a really smart thing to do! You have no idea how many people come here saying "My contractors start building tomorrow, so I need to design my studio today."... Yeah, that actually does happen, believe it or not. People don't seem to realize just how complex studio design is, and that it can't be done in a few days, or even a few weeks. Planning the entire thing carefully is the key to a successful build.

My final question is how much should I consider spending to have an acoustic designer design the interior of the structure?

Contact me off-line by PM, and we can talk about that, but first please also contact John himself, to see if he is able to design your place for you. After all, it's his forum!

That said, studio design fees aren't as steep as some people imagine, and getting someone to do it for you can actually end up saving you money, as you avoid all the common mistakes and pitfalls that can end up costing you.

Since I am a dealer for The Original Lincoln Logs, I don't need the engineering of the exterior structure (they'll take care of that for me),

Have they ever designed a studio before? ... Designing the outer-leaf for a studio goes along with the rest of the design. It's a complete system (especially if you go along with Newell's NER design concepts), so the entire thing has to be designed together. Studio designers usually work together with the project architects and structural engineers, with each taking care of his own specialty, to arrive at the best design possible from all three angles, given the limitations placed by the client. So if the log company has not done recording studio designs before, then they'll need to coordinate with the studio designer to learn how to do the things that are different for studios. Designing and building a world-class studio (which is what you are doing, basically) is rather different from building a house, store, school, or office. Many things are different.

There's one other issue that you might not have considered: since this is apparently going to be a commercial facility, you will be subject to the ADA regulations for things like wheelchair access, as well as probably local regulations on emergency exits, HVAC, fire codes, and things like that. You'll need to take all of those into account as well. That's your architect's job: he will take the designs from the studio designer and the log people, check that they meet all applicable federal, state, and local regulations, turn them into the actual physical drawings, and present them to your local municipality for approval.

Anyway, I'll try to send you that other stuff that I mentioned off-line, so you can see if it might be useful to you in coming up with a better layout.

I'm sort of excited about your project, as it looks like a very interesting build! A log cabin style studio should look pretty darn good if you ask me, and you have enough space that it can work out really well.


- Stuart -

[rockwellpro]

Stuart, thanks for the detailed response. BTW, sorry about not including #03- I had included the location in the post, but didn't realize that there was a space for it in the Profile. When setting up my profile before making my initial post, I didn't see the areas to add location, website etc. Still didn't see the proper space to add my email, but I'll PM that to you shortly. Maybe just limitations of the Hughesnet satellite internet- one big reason why we're looking to move! I really appreciate your taking the time to provide your professional insights and I'll reply to each response in a separate post. FYI, my recording studio business has been a professional 'home based' business for 20 years and this new structure will still be in a rural residential area. I am considering ADA features, but where I'm building there won't be the need for true commercial compliance. I'm looking forward to replying in depth so you have a clearer idea of what I did in my current studio and plan for this one. BTW, I'm very excited by two points you made:

1) Concrete Slab for floor- I didn't think a concrete finished floor would be an option, but with throw rugs for design and comfort it would obviously be the least expensive way to complete the foundation and floor! A concrete slab foundation this size would be under $10k and if it acts as the finished flooring, I'm saving at least $10k on hardwood or laminate (the alternatives I was considering)...

2) Sheetblok- I find it works well, but its SUPER expensive and even worse to work with. I can think of many things that were more difficult in the construction of my current studio than maneuvering that 150' roll of rubber and trying to hang it on the walls and ceiling (I found short drywall screws with fender washers and/or construction glue was the way to go)....

[Soundman2020]

BTW, sorry about not including #03-

That was it! It looks like you are fully joined up now!

Concrete Slab for floor- I didn't think a concrete finished floor would be an option, but with throw rugs for design and comfort it would obviously be the least expensive way to complete the foundation and floor!

Right! If you look around the forum, some members have done really spectacular finishes on plain old concrete. Polishing and staining can make it look very nice. Some people don't like the look, no matter what, but I personally I think it can look good, if done carefully. And if you end up not liking it (or if you want a warmer floor: concrete is cold to the feet), you can always simply put down laminate later, when the budget allows.

2) Sheetblok- I find it works well, but its SUPER expensive and even worse to work with.

Right! That's the other thing about MLV (all types: not just Sheetblock): it's not so easy to work with. It rips easily, is heavy, and hard to keep in place while you try to secure it. Not fun on the hands, either. It just feels weird!

That said, it does have some limited uses in acoustics, and I do use it occasionally, ... just not for large flat walls. MLV has the advantage of being flexible, so it is great for isolating noisy pipes and other unusually shaped objects. (I used it myself, in the ceiling above my TV room, where bathroom pipes came through and could be heard way too loud down below). It is also useful in some types of acoustic treatment devices, such as deep bass traps based on the limp-mass membrane absorber principle. So if you do want to showcase it, those might be options for you. For example, you could even leave it visible as the front surface of a limp-mass membrane trap. But you can save a lot of money by not using it where it isn't needed!

I'll reply to each response in a separate post

Looking forward to it! I¿m about to PM you the other details I mentioned last night.


- Stuart -

[rockwellpro]

Okay- next phase of replies:

Electrical- I'm going to research this 'Star Grounding Technique' and implement it. I have separate circuits for studio in my current place (also separate lights and outlets of course). Only issue I occasionally have is with single coil guitar pickups or Fender Twins (but could be anything with them). I also have a phantom hum that pops up occasionally with my Peluso 2247LE (U-47 clone). Think that is the light dimmer.. In the new place, the electrical will exist within the exterior log wall. HVAC through truss ceiling and the access panel will be for audio cabling- Snakes, extra speaker lines etc.

Floating Floor- my current studio isn't a true floating floor- I went 'ghetto' on them- cut down 1/2" rubber fatigue mats and layer of sheetblock at top and bottom plate of 2x6 wall framing

Both Sides of Wall- Yup- the wall that divides the two rooms in my current place is 5/8" drywall, sheetblock, 5/8 drywall, RC-8 channel, 2x6 framing with 4" mineral fiber, RC-8 Channel, 5/8" Drywall, Sheet Block, 5/8 drywall... then 16" Airspace, 5/8" drywall, sheetblock, 5/8 drywall, RC-8 channel, 2x6 framing with 4" mineral fiber, RC-8 Channel, 5/8" Drywall, Sheet Block, 5/8 drywall. The single walls that divide the vocal booth to the LR or CR are single wall- 5/8" drywall, sheetblock, 5/8 drywall, RC-8 channel, 2x6 framing with 4" mineral fiber, RC-8 Channel, 5/8" Drywall, Sheet Block, 5/8 drywall.

Current Studio db- measured with a digital SPL Meter- measured in Live Room with Program followed by measuring in Control Room with Program in LR. Typically about 65db. 38db from Control Room with Program to Vocal booth (single wall). I believe the non-studio grade doors are the reason for there only be a 38 db drop...

Flutter- yes, you hear transfer through glass/vibration of the glass. Good news is my new father-in-law owns a glass shop, so I can likely get something custom made just need to learn what's best.

Ceilings- I've attached a PDF with rough sketch elevations of what I was thinking about for the ceiling shapes. Please note, I design house floor plans, but I'm not an architect/engineer so this is basic measurement stuff.

Studio Elevation ideas.pdf

Log Walls- The term 'leaf' is a new one for me, but I believe my simple answer is yes The Log will be the wall aka interior/exterio;, the heat and acoustic insulator. The Original Lincoln Logs logs are an excellent option for insulation (comparable to an R-25 but based on thermal mass) and their open cell composition makes the equally great for sound isolation. I'm also thinking the interior log wall will provide some tone benefits to the room and look sweet. Since our logs are air dried (typically 4 years before being milled), they have very minimal settling- typically 1/4" in a standard 8' wall. This allows us to direct fasten one log to the next via 3/8" diameter by 12" long lag bolts. The logs are a double Tongue & Groove design with a 250% elastic caulking material for the outer tongue and an asphalt impregnated weather-striping for the interior tongue (provides minimal air circulation should any moisture get into the channel between the two tongues). I feel with the log wall and rural location, there shouldn't be the need for additional sound proofing on the outer walls. In terms of cost, I'm adapting/upgrading a log garage package. A standard solid log 3 car garage 24x36 is $25,000 for materials (logs, complete roof with standard flat truss, all finish roofing and lifetime shingles, a couple of windows and entry door). I'm adding 6', changing to scissor/custom trusses adding 2 windows and supplying my own studio grade doors. FYI, these prices don't include slab ( $7-$10k) or shell construction.

Lincoln Logs Ltd notch and pass small.jpg

Green Room- My hope is that once the designers at Lincoln Logs get working on my total shell design, I'll find that the breezeway can be enlarged to become a small lounge- just a couch, microwave/fridge combo and possibly a TV.

Carpet- rooms are more dead. My focus has been to accurately capture the tones of the performers I record and then rely on convolution reverbs like TL Space TDM to take my dry source and place it in the proper environment. My only frequency issues with regards to mixes are proper low end- aka I've had to learn how to mix in the room so the mixes aren't muddy/boomy in other sources. Still, carpet was a budget requirement not a preference and there will be only area rugs in the new place!

Lincoln Logs design and timeline- No Lincoln Logs hasn't designed a studio before and that's why I will likely hire someone to do an acoustic treatment to be incorporated within our building system. Budget isn't limitless, so for the shell construction the only Lincoln change will likely be truss shapes. The structure will be free standing which will allow for acoustically designed interior walls and various insulation techniques within. I intend to put our current place on the market soon- a 2137 sq ft log chalet with full 10' concrete walkout basement that houses our existing studio- 3 hours north of NYC conveniently and centrally located minutes from Albany, NY and the Berkshires in MA. Photos of the house are at https://www.pinterest.com/brookridgehom ... mes-model/ . Here's pics of the studio for sale- great for a musician or producer looking for a creative retreat!

control room panorama.JPG

Live Room Panorama.JPG

Think that covers everything... for now LOL
-Justin