SIMO Studio - Construction Phase

[simo]

Hi Brien,

Thanks for your quick response.

Unfortunately I don't get 100% what you are suggesting

Actually, I was planning to do exactly what is shown in the pic you attached (false ceiling at an angle with 100mm insulation and covered with cloth), so I really can't see the difference you mean? Could you elaborate that please?

The only difference I can see between the two designs is that I am planning to put plasterboard layers above the ceiling structure (or using "ceiling panels" between the studs like the ones used by SideShow in his Songcave Studio), whereas in Silva Prod. they built a flat ceiling with rockwool and plasterboard and then below that a false angled ceiling with rockwool and cloth.


Sorry but I'm confused


Simo

[xSpace]

"The only difference I can see between the two designs is that I am planning to put plasterboard layers above the ceiling structure"


And that is the 6.5 pound per square foot additional load difference:)

One is like a 2X4 with a soft ceiling spaced at 24 inches and yours is 2X8 with additional load, so they are as far apart as light and heavy and do not compare with each other, saving just to look at them.

Your framing ridge/beam that you show in your SU models should have transfer studs at both ends of the ridge/beams to transfer weight from the ceiling framing all the way to the bottom plate.

I see that you have the ridge/beams falling directly on top of your door openings. Make certain that you have a sufficient header over both of those doors and that it is blocked to transfer the weight of the ridge/beam to the header.

[simo]

Hi everyone,

it's been quite a difficult time... I had my 1 month old daughter hospitalized with bronchiolitis, with oxygen tubes and in isolation... It was really sad to see her so small and so poorly... I'm so glad and thankful she's back home now and slowly recovering.

Anyhow, today I started once more to look at my project and managed to think about what Brien kindly pointed out - about my ceiling structure being not sturdy enough to hold the overall cladding load... and I came up with the following solution:

Firstly, I will build a flat ceiling frame resting directly on top of each perimetric wall to help transfer the weight down to the bottom plates.

inner ceiling frame.jpg

(the rear half of this frame will need to be slightly angled downwards, as in that side of the room (CR rear) the outer ceiling is at is lower height)

outer structure.jpg

I'll place 100mm (45 Kg/m3) rockwool slabs between the studs

rockwool inner ceiling.jpg

and then two 15mm gyproc layers will be screwed into the ceiling frame

inner ceiling cladding.jpg

Secondly, below this inner ceiling I will build a "false ceiling" at a 12º angle to the floor.
(this will share the central beams with the flat inner ceiling (above it))

inner False Ceiling.jpg

inner False Ceiling 2.jpg

which will again have 100mm (45 Kg/m3) rockwool slabs between the studs

False Ceiling insulation.jpg

that will be covered with a stretched cloth

False Ceiling cloth cover.jpg

Before now I didn't explore this approach at all as In my confusion I was wrongly considering the false angled ceiling as another leaf... but after a bit of thinking I noticed that actually there's no difference between this false ceiling and the angled walls (both in the control room and live room) built just in front of my inner leaf, which are used to house the required acoustic treatments (slots resonators, hangers and absorbing walls).

Well, it makes sense to me now, but what do you think?
I'm obviously really focused on creating a correct acoustic space (or at least as good as I - and my budget - can), but safety is something that I DO need to make sure is right.

Thanks again for your input!

Ciao
Simo

[gullfo]

cool when the light comes on...

glad to hear your child is recovering.

[xSpace]

Simo,

Well, I wasn't suggesting that your ceiling design wouldn't work, only that yours and the soft treatment ceiling are in fact two different things so should not be looked at as one a reflection of the other.

I mentioned the support (in the walls) at the ends of your ridge, in the previous design, in support of the design since it is carrying a load, dead though it may be and always has the potential to "spread" the interior walls out of plumb with no other visible method of support.

Sorry I misled you my friend.


Glad to hear the little one is doing better,

[simo]

Many Thanks for your kind words Glenn and Brien !

Brien - I know you weren't suggesting to scrap my previous ceiling design in favor of the method used by John in his Silva production design so you didn't mislead me at all... actually, your comment made me analyze less superficially that specific design which DID clear my doubts - Cheers!

In fact, firstly I tried to support the central ridge/beams in the walls with transfer studs as you recommended. This was fine on the north walls (where the entrance door is)

Transfer stud.jpg

but couldn't do the same on the south wall, as the sliding door prevents me from having a stud (from top to bottom plate) below the ridge.

Transfer stud Sliding door.jpg

(...but you never know... if the sliding doors will prove to be too expensive for my budget when I get the quote, I could replace them with a door+window design and always have this option as my "ace in the hand" by running the transfer stud between them !)


Anyway... I AM happier with my last option as it seems to be a much more solid structure (with the added benefit of helping to support the walls as well) and using smaller sections (so much cheeper!) studs too ... and I DO like cheeper !!

I also took in the greater Header suggestion for an additional ceiling load support and replace them accordingly along with Cripple, Jack and King Studs (for a safer door support).
Thanks for the heads up !


...well, it's now time for me to stop chit-chatting and to actually start to get some work done !!


Long Life to this Forum !!

Ciao
Simo







p.s. In my rambling search of possible options, I briefly opted for a "V"-type ceiling structure as it seemed to have the benefit of distributing the overall load by resting directly on the top plates.

V ceiling option.jpg

I then dumped this idea as my room height is too low for this to work.... But I thought Id mention it here as perhaps someone with a bigger space might find that a suitable approach?[/i]

[simo]

Hi everyone,

Hope you are all well !

I've been out of this forum for a long time now… been quite busy before Christmas (which is always good) but I did manage to make some steps forward in preparation for the new year.

First of all, the wood on the original order was the wrong section so it was redelivered with the right section but with twice the length requested…

DSC05579.JPG

(well, not too bad as it can turn out to be handy when I need wood for the bottom/top plate longer than the originally ordered 2.4m… and I just need to cut it in half to get the same result).

First thing I did was I marked the CR dimensions on the floor

DSC05604.JPG

DSC05605.JPG

DSC05654.JPG

and then started cutting the wood accordingly.

DSC05607.JPG

DSC05657.JPG

I then marked on the bottom pate where the studs were supposed to be

DSC05652.JPG

DSC05653.JPG

DSC05655.JPG

and then reported those marks onto the top plate

IMG00379-20110104-1458.jpg

I actually marked the studs position all around the plates

IMG00380-20110104-1506.jpg

as I thought it would be useful to see where they are when attaching the plasterboard on the back of the walls and where to attach the internal acoustic treatment.

.....carry on on next post .....

[simo]

... and here we are again.....


Then holes drilled through bottom plate and concrete floor

IMG00376-20101228-1154.jpg

IMG00375-20101228-1146.jpg

IMG00374-20101228-1146.jpg

Here is the front wall:

IMG00004-20110118-1405.jpg

and then tested the whole thing:

IMG00001-20110116-1459.jpg

IMG00002-20110116-1500.jpg

The studs height is 2.35m, which then summed with the bottom and top plates (each 5cm wide) gives me the overall wall height of 2.45cm.
… So, with such a height I have to attach the gyprock at half the width of both the top and bottom plate as the gyprock sheets measure 1.2m x 2.4m.

Here's a pic to (hopefully) explain my rant a little better :

Plasterboard 1.png

Would this be ok? ( considering that this very same situation occurs overtime when two plasterboard sheets share the same stud)?

Plasterboard 2.png

Or - would I be better to dismantle the top plate - trim off 5cm at the top of all the studs - and then re-attach the top plate (thus reducing the walls' height down to 2.4m) ? Is this necessary in your opinion ?


Also, since my next step will be to attach the insulation on the back of the second layer of gyprock, what should I use to do this? Glue? Staples? What would give me the most permanent solution?

Thanks a lot in anticipation (as always!)

Looking forward to hearing from you


Ciao

Simo

[simo]

...sorry, but ....

B u m p




(impatient = petulant )

[xSpace]

Your next step would be to frame the ceiling , right?

After that you install your sheet rock to the framing above and that should take care of this gap, make it go away.

[simo]

Hi Brien,

Thanks a lot for your quick reply !

Actually, when I got it I just finished to trim the last stud, as I thought that 5cm shorter won't kill me but (apart from avoiding this annoying problem) it would indeed allow for more space between the outer and inner ceiling (already very limited) for running the HVAC ducting.

Also, since my walls are built inside-out, it would have been very difficult for me to install the sheet rock to the above framing as I'm building the walls on the floor and then lift them up in position (which is just 10cm from the outer walls - so nearly impossible to steer my drill to screw them in).

Aaaanyway, onwards we go !!!


… by the way, any idea on how to attach the insulation to the sheet rock?

Best Regards



Ciao
Simo

[xSpace]

Will you have a framed ceiling in this or no?

[simo]

Yes,

see top of this page.

Thanks!

Simo

[xSpace]

I wanted to see real framing Anywho...once you install the framing...oh, nevermind, you said you already cut your studs down, right?

Seemed like with framing installed you could have cut the 5cm in half with your upper sheetrock and then possible stripped the bottom joint.

But it's a done deal now right?

[simo]

Hi Brien,

yep - now the wall is 5cm shorter in order to match the sheet rock dimensions (and in order to gain a little extra space for the HVAC ducting).
I thought that doing that would make my life easier when i come to install the sheet rock layers and if for "any" reason I need to have those 5cm back I could always install a second top plate on top of the existing one!…. but I doubt that I would need such a thing

Grazie

Ciao
Simo