My walls will consist of 3 or 4 layers of drywall.
My ceilings will be 8.5' high.
I bought 4x10 sheets so I could cut each sheet to fit in one dimension.
Besides cosmetic, is there any reason why I can't just install all drywall sheets vertically? Staggering seams, of course...
Staggered vertical seams only for drywall layers?
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 9762.
Rod told in US and per USG, for cosmetic reasons (light reflection on seems) one mounts the last board horizontal.
Here in Europe, in as far as I know and found on the net, but mainly my own experience we standard mount vertically (all of them).
I saw UK documentation where the most inner board was mounted horizontally (hence that the reverse of the method described by Rod), but that was clearly caused by the type of board (called planks, but still gypsum board = thicker and smaller) with diverting width from the outer layers (hence they couldn't be placed vertically on the standard OC distance of the studs, positioned for the outer layers).
I think there is no reason to find one method better than the other from an acoustical point of view, and since both methods are used, also mechanically I don't see a difference, other than I can imagine that one or the other method can be more efficient in function of board sizes versus to be covered measures.
Also these but joints (board ends), where two boards meet, are a bit more difficult to finish for DIYers I assume.
Summary: I think it doesn't matter how you place them, as long you do it good.
But xSpace seems more of a practical expert than I am.
From what I have heard, it just makes the tapes seams less likely to be seen when they are horizontal rather than vertical. Other than that, I don't think it really matters.
For me, it made it a lot easier to stagger the seams by going horizontal with the second layer.
dh,
Eric is correct - I reply for what is considered "standard" in the US (refer to the USG manual on construction to view sequence) HOWEVER - I do not claim this to be the only method - and in some instances could see where the method you are describing could be preferable.
For example - if there are no windows (as is the case with most recording studios - and all lighting is installed in such a manner as to wash the walls vertically - then having no horizontal seams would be preferable.
The bottom line is you can do it either way (as long as the wall is not a fire rated assembly - at which point you can ONLY do it as described in the report)- I only speak to convention - there is no structural reason to choose one over the other.
Sincerely,
Rod
I suspect, in single layer commercial sheetrock walls, the vertical installation of the sheetrock eliminates the horizontal joint that can bust loose from wall racking. This installation procedure may also aid in the walls ability to retard fire by placing all the joints on a stud which provides solid backing.
Horizontal installing of the wall base panels in wood framing is preferred in respect to multi sheetrocked walls. The horizontal sheetrock ties more framing members together so a stronger wall is the result.
As it applies to multi layers, changing the direction of the next layer will offset the joints. So this supports the fire retarding notion above. This also adds strength to the wall and reduces lumps bumps and an uneven surface from multiple mud joints.
For multiple layer ceiling applications, installing the first layer perpendicular to framing members gives the same effect as if you were installing to a wall section. Especially when the ceiling is directly attached to the framing below, as is your case. You will get a stronger ceiling that is less likely to rack or twist.
But if you talk to ten different installers you are subject to get ten different installation methods.
This is my story and I'm stickin' to it:)
Space, you might suspect that - but you would be mistaken. first off - if wall racking is an issue - that means the building is not structurally sound - andf the direction of travel wouldn't change that - the ability to retain fire is not an issue- there are some single layer installations that require a vertical layer - some that only allow a horizontal layer and some that allow both........ The only difference has to do with what the manufacturer wanted pay to have tested - because it is only the actual test that is rated and even then you will find only for a particular company (or companies when multiple manufacturers paid for the same series of tests) - and only for the particular materials used in that test. Here's an example: http://tinyurl.com/39eyvb note the exact description of how the material is to be installed as well as the fact that only 2 manufacturers boards (and then only particular boards from those manufacturers) are allowed to be used in this assembly. Here's a different one - http://tinyurl.com/2lslwt Note that for fire rating with this wall assembly - it is only with the steel stud wall that the RSIC-1 clips are allowed......... Again - very explicit in what manner to install anothing - as well as what manufacturers components are allowed in the assembly (from the drywall itself to the fact that only PAC INTERNATIONAL INC — Type RSIC-1 clips are the only ones approved for use in this wall assembly - only certain insulations (etc., etc., etc.......) In over 30 years in this industry - the only people I have ever seen choose to install drywall in a vertical manner are home owners - not one time in 30 years has an installer in the industry choosen to do so. If they do it that is ONY because it is a requirement of a rated tested assembly. And yes - i have dealt with drywall contractors from at least 3 different countries - and from various places across those countries - so I probably have a pretty good feel for what is "industry standard".I suspect, in single layer commercial sheetrock walls, the vertical installation of the sheetrock eliminates the horizontal joint that can bust loose from wall racking. This installation procedure may also aid in the walls ability to retard fire by placing all the joints on a stud which provides solid backing.
Like i said earlier - if racking is a problem -= that is a structural defect that will never be fixed by gypsum installation - regardless of directrion of installation. You honestly don't understand anything as relates to structural elements in a buidling - and drywall is not one of them - it is only a load to be considered.............Horizontal installing of the wall base panels in wood framing is preferred in respect to multi sheetrocked walls. The horizontal sheetrock ties more framing members together so a stronger wall is the result. As it applies to multi layers, changing the direction of the next layer will offset the joints. So this supports the fire retarding notion above. This also adds strength to the wall and reduces lumps bumps and an uneven surface from multiple mud joints. for multiple layer ceiling applications, installing the first layer perpendicular to framing members gives the same effect as if you were installing to a wall section. Especially when the ceiling is directly attached to the framing below, as is your case. You will get a stronger ceiling that is less likely to rack or twist.
More likely is that if you talk to 10 different home owners you will get 10 different stories about how commercial installers install their product - but all experienced commercial installers install the same way - if not required otherwise - they install horizontally -But if you talk to ten different installers you are subject to get ten different installation methods.
you can do that - or you could always learn.......... tis your choice...... Sincerely, RodThis is my story and I'm stickin' to it:)
Geez, Rod, in the time it took you to compose that one you could have answered my silencer question in my other thread... :D
I guess my biggest issue is that I have 24" OC and when I stagger vertically I will be missing one stud to nail onto. I can probably get away with this on the walls, but I ought not on the ceiling...
I'm just ready for my project to be DONE already...
Rod,
Can you shorten these links?
Such a link has the same effect on the forum as too wide pictures.
http://tinyurl.com/
If you work with Firefox there is an add-on allowing the get a short link just by right-clicking on any page and clicking the TinyURL command, without even opening that site.
Otherwise you can drag and drop a link (explained on TinyUrl) which also will auto make a shortlink but opening that site in new window.
You can use these:
Your 1st link
http://tinyurl.com/39eyvb
Your 2nd link
http://tinyurl.com/2lslwt
In Firefox I just need to right-click in the page and press the command "Create TinyURL for this page". Without anything else or opening whatever page, the shortlink is copied to memory ready to paste.
With the TinyURL procedure (link in linkbar all browsers) it opens a page with the correct shortURL.
I cut all my drywall so that the joints were attached to studs. If that meant losing some material in exchange for rigidity, then so be it.I guess my biggest issue is that I have 24" OC and when I stagger vertically I will be missing one stud to nail onto. I can probably get away with this on the walls, but I ought not on the ceiling...
Mr. Rod, anything I said applies to the build that studio_drums has going.
Most of what I said can be supported by the USG website if you need to bone up.
Not one thing did I say required you to attempt to undermine the installation of simple sheetrock panels.
I believe racking will be an issue with this build in particular. Your links do nothing short of supporting what I have mentioned already.
Consider it I did, for this singular build. But since you seem to be in a jousting mood. Why don't you explain to the good people what happens when fire is part of the picture. Does the sheetrock shrink? Will it be nothing but paper and crumbling core? When this shrinkage happens, where do you want those long joints boss? On solid framing to retard penetration? I'm not the enemy Rod...Like i said earlier - if racking is a problem -= that is a structural defect that will never be fixed by gypsum installation - regardless of directrion of installation. You honestly don't understand anything as relates to structural elements in a buidling - and drywall is not one of them - it is only a load to be considered.............
Brien, with all due respect: Actually - what I responded to had nothing to do with that build - but (rather) was a statement that had to do with single layer commercial fire partitions - which has nothing to do with his build that I can see. You said:Mr. Rod, anything I said applies to the build that studio_drums has going.
I suspect, in single layer commercial sheetrock walls, the vertical installation of the sheetrock eliminates the horizontal joint that can bust loose from wall racking. This installation procedure may also aid in the walls ability to retard fire by placing all the joints on a stud which provides solid backing.
The USG website is not a source you can use to specify rated assemblies in a set of drawings and (or ) specifications. UL works - which is why I referenced it - and - with the exception of what UL states (as a matter of course) can be done in addition to what it certifies - you cannot modify any of the rated tested assembly. Example - UL allows that you can always add layers of drywall - although it will not raise the rating - and the base layers required still MUST be installed as tested. Another example - you can always increase the size or gauge of the stud/track when working with steel framing - BUT - in the case of a double framed wall - if a stiffening cross member is required - you cannot omit those members (in order to decouple) by adding stiffer structural members unless they specifically allow you to do so with that particular assembly.Most of what I said can be supported by the USG website if you need to bone up.
I was not trying to undermine anything - you changed the topic by making a blanket statement bringing fire into the picture - and when it comes to fire ratings and construction - your statement is not automatically correct on the face of it - and I always feel the need to point errors related to the trade that people state as fact. Either be careful with what you say - or don't present what you say with such authority..........Not one thing did I say required you to attempt to undermine the installation of simple sheetrock panels.
Again - your statement that I responded to had nothing to do with this build in particular - but rather with commercial construction in general. If racking is a problem then either structural sheathing to stiffen the building - or perhaps a let in bracing - maybe even steel t-bracing - should be used to make the building structurally sound before the installation of drywall. As to my links supporting your position - in the first link it clearly indicates that if you are using that particular assembly - the first layer absolutely has to be installed as you said - but then again you weren’t talking about a multiple layer assembly..... what you said exactly was this:I believe racking will be an issue with this build in particular. Your links do nothing short of supporting what I have mentioned already.
And the 2nd link proved that it doesn't make a single bit of difference with this particular single layer 1 hour assembly which direction the drywall runs, you get exactly the same protection either way........- which is not supporting your statement that what you suspect to be is actually true.I suspect, in single layer commercial sheetrock walls, the vertical installation of the sheetrock eliminates the horizontal joint that can bust loose from wall racking. This installation procedure may also aid in the walls ability to retard fire by placing all the joints on a stud which provides solid backing.
Like I said earlier - if racking is a problem -= that is a structural defect that will never be fixed by gypsum installation - regardless of direction of installation. You honestly don't understand anything as relates to structural elements in a building - and drywall is not one of them - it is only a load to be considered.............
As I keep pointing out - you stepped outside of this build - BUT - if you see a structural defect in this build that has you concerned - why don't you just point it out to the studio guy and suggest that he fix the problem?Consider it I did, for this singular build.
LMAO now - do you think for a moment that I'm not competent to do just that?But since you seem to be in a jousting mood. Why don't you explain to the good people what happens when fire is part of the picture.
I want them in whatever position will give the best architectural view of the finished product - which is why I would go out of my way to find assemblies that would allow that. You speak as though it makes a difference - as if one way is better than the other for a fire separation assembly - yet the 2nd link clearly proves that it doesn't - run the single layer either way and the wall has EXACTLY THE SAME RATING........ what is it that you don't understand?Does the sheetrock shrink? Will it be nothing but paper and crumbling core? When this shrinkage happens, where do you want those long joints boss? On solid framing to retard penetration?
I was not suggesting that you were - but you were spreading information that was not whole (complete) on the face of it, and when done with authority - can give people impressions that go beyond reality. All I care about is reality...... nothing more - nothing less........ Sincerely, RodI'm not the enemy Rod...
look in on your neighbors more often - I just answered this in another thread - I get tired of saying the same thing over and over and over and over............. http://tinyurl.com/25mz2kGeez, Rod, in the time it took you to compose that one you could have answered my silencer question in my other thread... :D
If you have 24" centers - and all sheets measure in 2' increments - how can you be missing joists? RodI guess my biggest issue is that I have 24" OC and when I stagger vertically I will be missing one stud to nail onto. I can probably get away with this on the walls, but I ought not on the ceiling...
Fair enough- it looks like I'm on the right track then with the silencers...
Regarding the vertical staggered layers, the first layer will have 3 studs to nail onto, but if I offset 2nd layer by 1 foot, I now only have 2 studs to nail onto. That's what I meant.