Mr. Tea's drumming room: Wise Counsel Needed

Well folks, how's the form? I'm grand thanks, except for a little pain when I try to remember all the stuff I've read on this forum (and others too actually). I finally decided, ah sure I'll just make a start my own, Sharward-beating :mrgreen: (yeah right) thread about my woes, life and mebbe a bit of soundproofing advice if I get lucky. Feel free to interject, intercept or just post derided ramblings in this here thread, cause I'm gonna bore ya. That's a promise. Let's go... Introduction: Hello, my name is Eoin and I... am a drummer "hi Eoin". I have a drum kit, a garage and angry neighbors. I'd like to soundproof my garage so I can play drums. I'd also like to have the ability to have a guitarist or two in there too sometimes, but the main purpose would be a practice room for drums. After looking around for months for a solution and nearly buying stuff from soundproofing.con, I washed up here and soaked up a lot if information. Of course, I still don't know what I'm talking about. I have now resolved to try and soundproof my garage using a method similar to one I saw here (in parts) (Sharward's). Ze Garage: is basically a 16' X 9' brick structure on a concrete base. The ceiling is 7' 3" high. That's "basically" though. As you will see the garage has a few interesting anomalies which are a pain in the rear. Pictures say a thousand words...(and are less boring):roll: Goal: Hoping to cut down poisonous noise emissions from 110dB to about 60dB, maybe less, I know it's still hearable, but with the traffic on my road that'd hardly be a cause for concern. Plan: Ah, yes the evil plan :twisted: . Well this is where it gets interesting (and by interesting I mean more boring). In a perfect world, I'd build a new two leaf system off of the concrete, out of drywall, rc, studs, insulation and blood and tears, in front of the garage door's rollers (effectively splitting the garage in two) and forget them altogether (I might need a door though...) Then I'd beef up my concrete if needed and construct new walls in front of them. I'd frame out a double door system for the front door. However, this would give me only a space of 9.84' X 9.1' to work with, minus the 1.1' X 1.2' block where the chimney is, and minus another few feet because of the door. I'd probably lose nearly a foot at each wall with all the... beef, effectively leaving me with a 9' X 8' room but only about 60 - 70sq. feet thanks to that stupid chimney block. So I dunno. I'm having a hard time envisioning this being big enough for more than a drum kit and a drummer. Actually, after constructing a quick 9' X 8' X 7' in Sketchup (main cause of premature hairloss in young would-be architects) I'm even less optimistic. Bloody rollers. Anyway. Budget: Right now, the budget set between me and my Dad is €4000, but that can, and probably will, go up. Now that doesn't mean that I have €4000 on me right now (more like €700, which is pretty good for a student I think :mrgreen: ), that's the amount we expect it to cost at the moment. My Dad's saying we'll use builders he knows to do it but I dunno. I think building and soundproofing are different things, they may look the same but there is a lot more precision and thought in soundproofing. Questions: Yeah, I have a question, is this hopeless? With so little space to work with, and so much to accomplish, would we need to spend way more? Remove the rollers (effectively disabling the garage door) and work with the whole room? Rethink the whole plan and do something else? tbh I'm kinda disheartened after writing all this. It all looks so hopeless. At times like these, the only thing to cheer me up is to look at this little comparison I made between my situation and Sharward's when I was reading his thread. Check it out. Things that my garage has going for it that Sharward's did not: concrete walls no building/sound codes chimney - could easily be used for AC Traffic outside no termites No crazy heat or danger of earthquakes Sorry man but it keeps me happy. And hey, you're on the right side of nearly there despite all that! You're an inspiration man! :mrgreen: :lol:

Argh I tried to post comments on all the pictures, twice, but they wouldn't show up! Wadup wit dat? nyways It's all prettymuch self-explanitory and if you do have any questions "what IS that monstrosity!", that sort of thing, well I'm not going anywhere. Unless one of the mods tells me to of course :mrgreen: Also I'm aware that some of you own the soul-eating monster that is Sketchup so here for your pure amusement is my fantastical Sketchup drawing of my garage. Dunno if the attachment will work but here goes nuttin.

Well, it's been over a week, page has been viewed nearly 100 times, Sketchup models have even been downloaded a few times. But no replies 'sniff' :cry: So I made new ones, and I'm summarising in my current plan. All you, the reader need to do is reply yes, or no. Please post something. Anything. Please? I would like to construct a new wall in front of my garage door rollers, i.e. cut the garage in half (for a few reasons). I would also like to construct a two leaf wall opposite the new wall at the back door, and use a double door system with these leaves. i.e. one door in each leaf (Sketchup model attached). However, if I do this, the dimensions of my new box room would be roughly 7' 6" length, 9' width and 7' 2" height. This is without "beefing up" the existing concrete on the sides and roof of my box. This would be a small box, big enough for a drumkit, but very little else. Plus, it'd probably sound terrible. So, reader. Please just answer yes or no to the following question, even if you have no experience of drums or acoustics or construction or anything. Is this a good plan?

Greetings Eoin! Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, I can't really give you any advice for what you're asking presently, but I can tell you to hang tight and don't give up because of no responses yet. The moderators and some of the more senior members have been busy lately with their own projects and personal endeavors. Someone will get to you soon. In the meantime be SURE to do a thorough search specifically for studio "threads". I've seen a LOT of people on here building Studios/practice rooms in garages. I would think there would be some info in those threads that may help you with your build. I CAN tell you that you need MASS in order to reduce the sound travel. (You seem to have a grasp of this already). Drums seem to pack a high db level and you'll probably need a substantial amount of mass to reduce the sound travel. Just remember that even though you can build to try & soundproof your garage most likely there will be sound leakage. The level of that leakage may be acceptable to you and your neighbors if you build correctly. Your ideas about a "perfect world" build would work pretty good, but as you indicated, space is an issue. Looks like green glue may be of interest to you somewhere along your build http://www.greengluecompany.com/ especially when space is an issue. You will also need to be thinking about some type of ventilation. With you being a drummer, your movements will produce more heat than someone playing in a relaxed state. Come up with a plan to bring air in and exhaust air out. Even if you use a window-type Air Conditioner, you will also need to incorporate fresh air into your room. With your room being small, you'll need that airflow man...hot-n'-stuffy ain't the way to go!! A lot of the stuff you need is on this site, you'll just need to take the time to do some thorough research. Some of the post I've seen on here for garage Studios have good build info that you can at least "start" with. Check the stickies and reference areas out. Researching isn't easy. Some info is "buried" deep in posts that start out one way and veer another. If you REALLY want this, go get it...it's on this site, and you CAN find it...You can do it! Many Blessings on your Studio!

Hey Man, Like you, I'm a drummer and I'm converting a 1 car garage into a studio. Lose the door and the rollers if you can. Anything worth doing is worth doing right! Why compromise? See if you can convince your Dad. Your entire studio build and advice regarding it will be entirely dependent on what you do with that door. Check out Dan Fitzpatrick's thread regarding the garage door. I'm following his example. This forum has all the information you need for your project. Keep looking! Unfortunately the search function is lacking for some reason. It just doesn't seem to allow you to get specific. Anyone else notice this?

studio_drums wrote:

Lose the door and the rollers if you can. Anything worth doing is worth doing right! Why compromise? See if you can convince your Dad. Your entire studio build and advice regarding it will be entirely dependent on what you do with that door.

You're absolutely right. I've been telling myself that from the start, but it means a lot more coming from someone impartial. I can't really explain why though... I was saying to myself "there's no point spending so much money if I'm gonna end up with a small box.", but i wasn't convincing myself. Really, that's the most important decision I have to make. And I'm going to get rid of them. Thanks for the replys! I just have one more question. I've recently been thinking of not using the garage altogether :roll: and building a room in the back garden, with double concrete walls. A friend of mine has a room like this in his back garden to play drums and it works really well. He built it himself. Says he's spent about €10,000 on it. So my options now are: 1. Get rid of rollers, use garage, I'd have a 16' X 8' X 7' room with existing concrete walls to work with. Pros: It's already there. Has a concrete roof, hard to recreate. Cheaper, circa €4,000 Cons: Important electrical systems are on walls, need to be accessed regularly. Would be disabling garage door. 2. Build a new 16' X 8' X 7' room with concrete slab, double concrete walls . Pros: Farther away from neighbours. Easier to modify Cons: Harder to build More expensive, circa €10,000 So. Which one's a better plan, reader? Option 1 or option 2?

If you have the budget, building a new free-standing structure is always the better option. So the question is: what's your budget? Keep in mind- that guy built his room himself and it STILL cost 10,000. That should tell you something... As far as the garage goes, wires can be moved. Just hire a qualified electrician to move them. There will be an expense, of course. Is there some reason you're attached to the garage door? It sounds like you need to have a good long talk with Dad about your options- he's the one with the budget, correct? No one knows more details about your situation than you do. What is your gut telling you? At this point you're still the most qualified to answer your own question. Not to get all metaphysical and stuff, but you have the answer already. Ask yourself, and trust your instincts.

Thanks for the reply studio_drums :D

studio_drums wrote:

Not to get all metaphysical and stuff, but you have the answer already. Ask yourself, and trust your instincts.

Metaphysical advice is always welcome :D And, I hate to say it, but parental advice is not bad either. Sat down with them today and they gently rejected both plans :oops: But they kinda set me straight about the whole thing again. I'm 17. I won't be living here forever. They, however, will, and I don't want to leave them with an unusable garage door or make them help me build a ten grand room in the garden. So I'm back to square 1. But in a good way. It's been a hell of a trip, and I've learned tonnes about sound isolation :D Anyways, disheartened as I am, I've still got about a grand and a half, and I realised something a few minutes ago. The neighbours only complained once. To be honest, the biggest problem with my garage, the "weak link" through which the majority of the sound is escaping, is the garage door. If I made that a bit better (emphasis on a bit), without disabling it maybe I could practice during the day and not annoy anyone. Like I said, I'm on a busy street. It takes a good bit of noise to annoy people around here. So lets just say, hypothetically, that the only thing to be dealt with was the garage door. Is there anything I could do? I'm open to wacky suggestions here. This is purely hypothetical, and I'd only be looking for a 10-15dB reduction in TL, more if you can think of something really wacky. So. For €1500 do you think I could construct a Gobo or something to slide under the rollers, and something to go over them? Or something else?

hey Just thought i'd help you out with a straight SKP. Add in your chimney and bits. You might get a reponse. plus there are so many post about this already. just copy one and save the effort

lilith_envy wrote:

hey Just thought i'd help you out with a straight SKP. Add in your chimney and bits. You might get a reponse. plus there are so many post about this already. just copy one and save the effect

Cool, thanks man I didn't know I could do that. Any thoughts on the Gobo idea? (see 2 posts above)

Hey Mr. Tea, I finally got a few minutes to read through your thread. Flattery will get you nowhere! (I lie!) ;-) I wish I had more encouraging news for you, my friend... :( ...But you're, as we say, "stuck between a rock and a hard place." :roll: Your constraints of garage door preservation, extremely tight square footage, lowish budget, and other challenges tell me that you're just simply not going to get airborn with anything worthwile for the investment. Others may disagree, and if they do, I ask them to prove it beyond gut feeling. I say this knowing full well that it's my gut telling me that it can't be done, but the burden of proof in these things isn't in demonstrating that something doesn't work, it's demonstrating that it does. Mr. Tea, something I'd really like to urge you to (re)consider is today's electronic drum kits. Check out Roland's top-of-the-line V-drums. If you've done so in the past and rejected the notion, do it again, as there have been improvements, even in the last couple of years. If I had the chance to do it all over again, I might actually have gone that route myself. --Keith :mrgreen:

sharward wrote:

Mr. Tea, something I'd really like to urge you to (re)consider is today's electronic drum kits. Check out Roland's top-of-the-line V-drums. If you've done so in the past and rejected the notion, do it again, as there have been improvements, even in the last couple of years.

I think I will. After all, practice is the most important thing, and I've heard that some of the better ones don't sound bad at all. Thanks for everything man. Maybe I'll be back in a couple of years, and your garage will be finished, and you'll have 40,000 posts, and I'll pester you for more advice :mrgreen: But atm it's just good to have reached a conclusion, even if it's not the one I had hoped for. My mind has been nothing but sound isolation techniques for the last few weeks! Thanks again, and all the best.