Build It Like The Pros / Door and Window Question

Rod, (or others) In your book you go a little fast on the door thing. You said that you wouldn't "skimp" on this part, so I want it right. QUICK QUESTIONS: 1 - Nails/screws to hold the 3/4" + solid core / lead sandwich together? 2 - You said that you wouldn't count on a 300lb. door hanging on a 2x4 that would eventually sway... how would you frame it then? 3 - In figure 5.3 of the splayed window construction, you show the horizontal layout... should I assume that the vertical edges will be treated the same way? (neoprene, glazing tape, etc.?)

J-Texas wrote:

1 - Nails/screws to hold the 3/4" + solid core / lead sandwich together?

for a solid core 1 3/4" door with 3/4" plywood - trim screws 2 1/4" length will be fine.

2 - You said that you wouldn't count on a 300lb. door hanging on a 2x4 that would eventually sway... how would you frame it then?

If you want to isolate a double frame wall asembly then I would not build the walls with less than 2x6 (ut then again - I always design with 2x6 24" o.c. - which (forma board foot point of view) is almost identical to 2x4 @ 16" centers. If you build with 2x4's - then the door frame must run though and connect both walls.

3 - In figure 5.3 of the splayed window construction, you show the horizontal layout... should I assume that the vertical edges will be treated the same way? (neoprene, glazing tape, etc.?)

All 4 sides are the same........ Rod

rod gervais wrote:

If you build with 2x4's - then the door frame must run though and connect both walls. Rod

Thank you Rod. I'm sure that I'm not the only Brown Noser to say this, but... great book! No nonsense and easy to read. I think, though, it's hard to capture every detail and with your background it is easy for you to be over confident in some layman's knowledge. :P I've built the structure. All 2x4's... go figure. I hope this is not one of those detrimental acts that you talk about. The plan is: (from the outside, in): 5/8" gyp., 2x4, fluffy insulation, MLV, RISC, 5/8" gyp., Green Glue, 5/8" gyp. That only leaves one layer of mass out of the equation. Oops! :shock: So, build the door frame with 5/4 thick lumber all the way around? Including header and cripple? Will the depth of the door protrude into the room?

J-Texas wrote:

The plan is: (from the outside, in): 5/8" gyp., 2x4, fluffy insulation, MLV, RISC, 5/8" gyp., Green Glue, 5/8" gyp.

IMHO, you're throwing your money away with the MLV- save it and add more layers of 5/8 gyp and green glue - bigger bang for the buck......

So, build the door frame with 5/4 thick lumber all the way around? Including header and cripple? Will the depth of the door protrude into the room?

Door frames don't have headers and cripples - those are framing terms - But yes - build the door frame with 5/4 stock - the door face will flush up with the face of jamb - whcy would it intrude on the room space? Rod

rod gervais wrote:

IMHO, you're throwing your money away with the MLV- save it and add more layers of 5/8 gyp and green glue - bigger bang for the buck......

Like I said, Rod... I should have purchased your book first! :( I have a few rolls sitting in the hall right now. It would cost me more to send it back.

Door frames don't have headers and cripples - those are framing terms -

I'm no expert, but something has to hold that door frame in place. I still need to build a header and the jacks to hold up that header... right? Will the door jamb flush up with the last layer of gypsum on the inside wall? What about isolation on the outside of the frame where it meets up with the sheetrock? A bead of acoustical caulk around the perimeter?

J-Texas wrote:

rod gervais wrote:

IMHO, you're throwing your money away with the MLV- save it and add more layers of 5/8 gyp and green glue - bigger bang for the buck...... Like I said, Rod... I should have purchased your book first! :( I have a few rolls sitting in the hall right now. It would cost me more to send it back.

Sell it on ebay........ we'r talking isolation here - even if you loose some money on it you still make back more than the loss......

Door frames don't have headers and cripples - those are framing terms - I'm no expert, but something has to hold that door frame in place. I still need to build a header and the jacks to hold up that header... right?

Yup - so with a 2x4 wall make sure you have double studs plus the jack stud to build the assembly - thus 3 - 2x4's to carry the weight of the door as a minimum.

Will the door jamb flush up with the last layer of gypsum on the inside wall? What about isolation on the outside of the frame where it meets up with the sheetrock? A bead of acoustical caulk around the perimeter?

Yes and then again - yes........ Rod

10-4 man! So, just to be sure... You want me to eighty-six the MLV and still use the RISC clips straight on the studs and then use 5/8"-GG-5/8"-GG-5/8" (inside) That's pretty heavy. If you think I can use the extra 5/8 on the outside wall... I can't. So, what then? The 3 layers of gyp or go ahead and use the vinyl and 2 layers of gyp.? THX IN ADVANCE!!!!

J-Texas wrote:

10-4 man! So, just to be sure... You want me to eighty-six the MLV and still use the RISC clips straight on the studs and then use 5/8"-GG-5/8"-GG-5/8" (inside) That's pretty heavy. If you think I can use the extra 5/8 on the outside wall... I can't. So, what then? The 3 layers of gyp or go ahead and use the vinyl and 2 layers of gyp.? THX IN ADVANCE!!!!

I would proceed with option 1 - and 86 the MLV........ Rod

ROD YOU HAVE ME SCARED ABOUT THE MLV. Upon re-thinking this... Is it only for isolation? Could I just 86 the MLV, recoup some of the loss by selling it and then not add another layer? Could I just go with 5/8 - rigid - RISC - 5/8 - GG - 5/8 (only) The control room is separated from the tracking room with a concrete block wall and there is already an air gap with two solid core doors. This is a remodel of the control room. That much isoation is not that necessary now or in the future. If there is no other acoustical reasons... should I just go with the above?

A couple of more pictures.

Rod, Could you check out the post before the pictures above and give me your final word on this? THX man! I'm about to sell off the MLV and go for 1 leaf on the outside and 2 on the inside. If there is no other reason besides isolation, then 3 is not needed I guess. Or should I put it up anyway. I don't want to sound redundant, but I just want to be clear. Jason