Currently - interviewing architects - the structure will be built from the ground up. Doing research. Design phase.
Also - about to get a proper survey done to accurately determine where actual property lines are.
Location - back yard of our home, in sunny southern California. The yard is flat. Not on a flood plain (i dont think) There is a 6’ high concrete block wall all around the property.
I have done extensive research with planning dept of the city I live in, and there has to be a 2’ setback from the side wall, and a 5’ setback from the rear of the property line.
How close to neighbors? My back yard is right next to my neighbor’s back yards. I don’t listen loud at all.... (85 db or less usually) but good sound isolation would be useful. Also - there is an occasional overheat jet - high up, but definitely audible.
Neighbors are pretty darned quiet - god bless them.
Currently I work in a back room in my home (adjacent to where the new studio will be build) and i’m in a 1940’s bungalow, with original single pane glass windows, and I have never annoyed the neighbors. (that I know of) So with double paned glass (or better) and sturdy construction, i’m optimistic that I’ll be ok in the sound department.
Desired uses - mostly stereo and 5.1 mixing of music
- occasional recording of a soloist or small ensemble (in same room, everybody with headphones on)
Computers and harddrives will be located in a top quality iso-hush rack. I’ve decided to not build a dedicated air conditioned closet. For flexibility and possible eventual relocation of workspace to another room.
Overall construction - i’m inexperienced here, :shock: but I’m thinking wooden framing, drywall, resilient J channel... (?) stucco exterior, poured concrete foundation, with a raised wood (bamboo? ...sustainable wood) floor above that - with possibly floor pockets to neatly run wires to surround speakers etc.
Design ideas - I wish to build the space as “generically” as possible - to keep possible eventual resale value of the house high - so I wish to make it more or less “a box” - - plain vertical walls -and to do bass traps with numerous “Real Traps” in the wall / ceiling corners, and wall / wall corners..... (I already own 5, I’d buy more) and GIK traps (I already own 2, I’d probably buy more). I also have a home made 6’ square acoustic cloud (made with corning 703) that would be installed above the mix position.
Shape of the building - due to desire to preserve maximum amount of the backyard, and due to clearance limitations from existing garage (that will not be modified) and due to path of the sun.... and views of trees, and privacy issues - I think the attached image is the best compromise in terms of overall building shape.
I also wish to work at the narrow end of the building - with the greatest depth behind me - to mitigate bass issues.
NOTE - the mix position as shown is a little off center - only because the drawing below is a modified version of an earlier drawing that had bookshelves along the top wall.... I removed these... so the mix position is a bit off center. Please ignore this. Thanks.
The walls are non-parallel to diminish standing waves - at the rate of 1 foot per 10 feet of length.
Flat roof - 12’ tall exterior (planning limitation) and thus approx 10’ inside.
Equipment - no console, but mixing all “in the box” with a lot of hardware EQ’s, compressors and reverbs.
Speakers - good sized nearflields (8” woofer - 2 way) - 5.1 setup- all on individual stands (for flexibility). I don’t want to soffit mount any speakers.
I wish to build the studio in a way that will be the most flexible in the long run, as who knows - in 5 years I might buy a small console, or turn my working arrangement 90 degrees to the left.. or who knows....
Budget: I’m told that the cost will be around $200/sq foot - so if it is 400 sq feet - then it is $80.000 total, approx. Hey - who needs two kidneys anyway? ;-)
The “murphy bed” (in drawing) would have the base of it filled with corning 703, and have slats, so it would function as a bass trap / quasi Helmholtz when up, and serve as a place for the occasional out of town guest to sleep in when down.
As you can see - I wish to have a shower, a toilet, a sink, (all in a bathroom) and also a bar fridge and a bar sink.... all to be able to have clients over to work with me, and to keep them out of my home. Yes, all this is allowed by the city. Yes, I’ll get the proper business license, and yes, I’ll get permits for everything.
Questions:
1) with the addition of a good number of 2’ x 4’ bass traps (RealTraps, GIK traps) - how good will the room sound? How decent is the overall design and concept?
2) How good is the overall shape of the room for mixing and occasional recording? Is it workable?
2a) Should the shortest wall (15’) be made not parallel with the back wall, or is it not a big deal? (see the drawing to see the option, drawn in crudely)
3) ideally - how far back from the narrowest wall should the speakers be, (LCR) and how far back should the mixer’s ears be? What about where to put the surrounds?
4) an architect suggested that part of the interior (possibly ceiling) be wood panelled - for both aesthetic reasons and sound reasons..... your thoughts?
5) anyone have a line on a quiet bar fridge?
6) what about a white or silver roof to diminish AC needs in the hot summers? Temperature is about 75-85 F in the daytime summer, 65F - 70 F in the winter. Lots of sun.
7) do you see any issues with where doors and windows are located?
eight) I hope to get in a lot of natural light. My (crazy?) thought was to have ordinary windows in a number of places, but to also have a large number of glass blocks in a strip from 7’ up to 9’ up - in many places around the top of the walls - to let in a good amount of diffuse light. (up above bookshelves, the murphy bed, etc) How good (or bad) are glass blocks at letting in or keeping out sound? What about using two layers (an inner and outer layer) separated by an airspace?
I wasn’t going to do skylights, as a lot of dust falls from the sky here, and also track lighting and the acoustic cloud will be on the ceiling.
9) what about the thought of having the inner wall to the bathroom somewhat curved, (between the bathroom door and where the Murphy bed starts) so as to be less intrusive into the main room (and to make the Murphy bed area seem less "in a cave"... it might also help with acoustics?
10) I have a fear that the narrow end wall (on left) will only be 14 feet wide (or a bit less) inside the building.... and the mix position will likely be quite near to that narrow bit... perhaps would it be worth it to make the whole structure a bit wider - so the two narrow end walls are not 15' and 17' but perhaps 16.5' and 18.5'? We'd lose a bit more back yard that way.... but if we're spending $80,000+ it would be good to have the most useable space, if possible.....?
11) I know control rooms are usually symmetrical, but my research (the book "Building a Recording Studio" by Jeff Cooper) has led me to believe that having walls slightly non-parallel would be ideal if the room is to be used for both control room and recording. Is this true? Is my current concept (that I got from the Cooper book) of having facing walls non-parallel by 1 foot over 10 feet a sound one? (no pun intended)
12) What about the concern that having the outside of the structure having corners that are not all 90 degrees might be a bit weird for resale. (the building will be next to a very standard looking 1940’s bungalow and garage) How much more would it cost to build off-angles walls inside a rectangle? Could I use the resultant space for closets, access to in-wall cabling, or acoustic treatment? Is this a good or a bad idea? How much volume inside would I lose?
I was hoping to get the maximum internal volume, (both workable space and acoustic space) with the most efficient footprint, at the best price..... so that is how the design below came about..... and to have it be as ‘neutral’ as possible for the next owner of the house, so they could use it as a rec-room or bedroom or study, and not feel that the inside walls were a really odd shape.... thus my thought for the shape as it is... any advice?
13) Do I want/need to spend the $ to do double walls? (Room inside a room.) I was hoping to avoid this, to get maximum useable internal space with the least destruction of the back yard of our home....
14) Someone suggest angling the walls from floor to ceiling instead of how they are now in the drawing below.... Is a control room better with symmetry, but with angles....?
15) if I'm going to spend all this $, maybe I should just specify a rectangular outer box, and then have inner walls that are angled both vertically and horizontally? I guess this will make the room sound better, and also provide much better sound insulation possibly (if done right) but I'm afraid that this double wall construction would put the costs thru the roof, and also make things like windows much more difficult..... (yes, I would like a lot of natural light, but I know that is a compromise to punch holes right thru the double walls..... and connect them...)
THANKS!
From ground up - 400 sq’ new one room studio in CA, USA
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 8402.
symmetrical doesn't have to mean parallel walls. and in your case, adding an angled wall on the outside wall and equally but opposite angled to the, er, angled courtyard wall would be good from both a symmetry and acoustics perspective. some designs are based on a purely rectilinear design because modes are more readily calculated (although content of the room and its construction alter the reality of it) and some designs assume a "average" value for the room ratio in the design but use non-parallel surfaces - wall-to-wall, ceiling-to-floor etc. to define its properties.
since isolation is less of an issue than good acoustics, good quality construction and proper treatments (like symmetry) will likely meet your needs.
thanks for the good thoughts...... I'm hoping that the master John L Sayers will also chime in... whenever he has time..... :Dsymmetrical doesn't have to mean parallel walls. and in your case, adding an angled wall on the outside wall and equally but opposite angled to the, er, angled courtyard wall would be good from both a symmetry and acoustics perspective. some designs are based on a purely rectilinear design because modes are more readily calculated (although content of the room and its construction alter the reality of it) and some designs assume a "average" value for the room ratio in the design but use non-parallel surfaces - wall-to-wall, ceiling-to-floor etc. to define its properties. since isolation is less of an issue than good acoustics, good quality construction and proper treatments (like symmetry) will likely meet your needs.
depending on your schedule, it sounds like you're seeking an architect who will draw up your plans in the near future, John has a consult service via telephone or skype and I'd wager any number of folks would be happy to recommend a call or two.
At this point im hoping to merely get a suggestion for the shape of the room. I'm thinking now that symmetry would be best.... and working at the narrow end.... I saw a similar room recentlly - they used a 2 x 6 footer and used offset studs and had a room within a room. I think I'll do this..... they actually suggested using a 2 x 8" footer to make things a little easier. Any suggestions for the shape of the room? Many, many thanks :)I'm hoping that the master John L Sayers will also chime in... whenever he has time..... :D
Staggered studs suck. Go with separate frames. Seriously.
ummmmmmmmm.. why do staggered studs suck? I recently saw a room built this way, and it seemed like a brilliant solution.... as the inner walls were all slightly angled in, and the walls didnt touch anywhere but the footer. :?:Staggered studs suck. Go with separate frames. Seriously.