Studio Window and Walls

Hi, this is my first (cautious) post. I have read as much as I can absorb knowing full well that it still not anywhere near all of the available info. Like most i have a limited budget and have numerous restrictions which will hamper me with my studio construction project but i thought i would share my stumbling steps as I lurch forward :D I am in Sydney Australia and have taken over a single garage and one room of my house for this project. I have just finished installing the control room window. The design I came up with consisted of 2 glass units 1800mm x 600mm. Each unit consists of 10.76 Sound Control Laminate and 7.52 laminate seperated by a 12mm air space as a sealed unit. Both units are seperated by 90mm air space lined with silica gel. The 10.76 SCL has an STC of 39 and the 7.52 Laminate an STC of 35. The unit itself an STC of 44. I don't know what the STC of the combined units + the 90mm air space is but I plan to contact the techos to find out. The cost was $704Aus plus a few tubes of Fullers Firesound acoustic sealant as well as about 8 cans of Fullers 'Fulla Foam'. My planned wall construction seems at odds with some of the info provided on the forum and is based on a range of other sources and no disrespect is intended. My plan (at present) is to line the single brick garage like this:- Existing brick wall, 10mm airspace, 13mm Soundstop, frame, insulation, 13mm Soundstop, 10mm airspace, 25mm partywall, 10mm airspace, 13mm Soundstop, frame, insulation, 13mm Soundstop. http://www.boral.com.au/partiwall/defau ... erProducts According to the Boral Techos with only 2 lots of 13mm soundstop board this will achieve an RW=56dB & STC=54. This STC seems at odds with the STC of 57 for a similar construction without the 25mm partwall? The addition of the extra 2 lots of 13mm Soundstop shoud increase the STC of 54 further and I will be talking to them about it. I had heaps of problems making sure the glass was clean before installation and a hell of a time distributing the silica gel evenly in the air space. Feel free to comment or cajole :) Cheers Mick

renegade wrote:

I have just finished installing the control room window.

You would have been \better suited coming to ask the questions before you spent the money and did the work........

The design I came up with consisted of 2 glass units 1800mm x 600mm. Each unit consists of 10.76 Sound Control Laminate and 7.52 laminate seperated by a 12mm air space as a sealed unit. Both units are seperated by 90mm air space lined with silica gel. The 10.76 SCL has an STC of 39 and the 7.52 Laminate an STC of 35. The unit itself an STC of 44. I don't know what the STC of the combined units + the 90mm air space is but I plan to contact the techos to find out. The cost was $704Aus plus a few tubes of Fullers Firesound acoustic sealant as well as about 8 cans of Fullers 'Fulla Foam'.

Well your construction will be a lot less isolation than it would have been if you had taken the 2 pieces of glass from one unit and just installed them seperately in each ell face with the 90mm of air between them. You say you've read a lot - but you apparently didn't get the whole concept of 2 leaves versus 3 or 4 leaves.......... I can't tell you what the exact difference will be - but my gut says that if you had conbined the 4 leaves into 2 leaves with exactly the same mass you would have gained about 10 to 15 dB of isolation over what you have now........

My planned wall construction seems at odds with some of the info provided on the forum and is based on a range of other sources and no disrespect is intended.

None is taken - but I sure would love to see those other sources......

My plan (at present) is to line the single brick garage like this:- Existing brick wall, 10mm airspace, 13mm Soundstop, frame, insulation, 13mm Soundstop, 10mm airspace, 25mm partywall, 10mm airspace, 13mm Soundstop, frame, insulation, 13mm Soundstop. http://www.boral.com.au/partiwall/defau ... erProducts According to the Boral Techos with only 2 lots of 13mm soundstop board this will achieve an RW=56dB & STC=54. This STC seems at odds with the STC of 57 for a similar construction without the 25mm partwall? The addition of the extra 2 lots of 13mm Soundstop shoud increase the STC of 54 further and I will be talking to them about it.

Mick, you're talking about a 6 leaf system here - and I honestly don't have a clue what the heck it's value is............ and the link you gace us was directly to a shaft wall system creating a 2 hour fire wall assembly - which isn't anything like what you're describing - perhaps if you could draw us a sketch............. Sincerely, Rod

Hi Rod, Thanks for the reply. I spoke to the glass techos at Penrose and they indicate this installation (glass) would achieve an STC of 54 - I'm pretty happy with that. The system of wall and ceiling lining I have chosen is a Boral Plasterboard "Cinema Zone" "hybrid"system which consists of a twin timber stud frames lined both sides of each frame with Boral 13mm Sound Stop insulated with Fletcher Sono batts. In between the two timber frames is a 25mm thick wall of Boral Plasterboard shaft liner friction fit into Rondo purpose built chanel as used in the Boral Parti Wall system. The ceiling joists are fitted with acoustic mounts clipped into furring chanel which are fixed with two layers of 13mm Boral Sound stop laminated together insulated with 100mm Sono batts. This system I am told by the Boral Plasterboard Tech Dept this system will far exceed a CTR+RW value of 70 which is based on the current legislated sound rating requirements of the RW value being a negative number representing bass frequencies to force the designs of such systems to perform better. Given that all flanking noise paths have been fully caulked in the design I am led to believe that the CTR+RW rating of 70 would equate to an aprox rating of 78-80 in the old STC figures with the added benefit of a 2-3 hour fire rating. I will get a drawing happening as soon as I can. Thanks Mick

Mick, seems like you need to spend some more time on this forum and read stickies/referrals/stuff/whatnot. There's much to be learned. THEN you might explain the why and how 'bout your plans (in detail). good luck!

renegade wrote:

The system of wall and ceiling lining I have chosen is a Boral Plasterboard "Cinema Zone" "hybrid"system which consists of a twin timber stud frames lined both sides of each frame with Boral 13mm Sound Stop insulated with Fletcher Sono batts. In between the two timber frames is a 25mm thick wall of Boral Plasterboard shaft liner friction fit into Rondo purpose built chanel as used in the Boral Parti Wall system. The ceiling joists are fitted with acoustic mounts clipped into furring chanel which are fixed with two layers of 13mm Boral Sound stop laminated together insulated with 100mm Sono batts.

??? i guess we all need a sketch of that to be able to judge what the hell that is :wink: a :arrow:

renegade wrote:

Hi Rod, Thanks for the reply. I spoke to the glass techos at Penrose and they indicate this installation (glass) would achieve an STC of 54 - I'm pretty happy with that. The system of wall and ceiling lining I have chosen is a Boral Plasterboard "Cinema Zone" "hybrid"system which consists of a twin timber stud frames lined both sides of each frame with Boral 13mm Sound Stop insulated with Fletcher Sono batts. In between the two timber frames is a 25mm thick wall of Boral Plasterboard shaft liner friction fit into Rondo purpose built chanel as used in the Boral Parti Wall system. The ceiling joists are fitted with acoustic mounts clipped into furring chanel which are fixed with two layers of 13mm Boral Sound stop laminated together insulated with 100mm Sono batts. This system I am told by the Boral Plasterboard Tech Dept this system will far exceed a CTR+RW value of 70 which is based on the current legislated sound rating requirements of the RW value being a negative number representing bass frequencies to force the designs of such systems to perform better. Given that all flanking noise paths have been fully caulked in the design I am led to believe that the CTR+RW rating of 70 would equate to an aprox rating of 78-80 in the old STC figures with the added benefit of a 2-3 hour fire rating. I will get a drawing happening as soon as I can. Thanks Mick

Mick, Tell you what - get me the lab test reports for both the wall assembly and the window assembly you're building. Now, explain to me why you want to spend so much money on a wall when your window is going to be the limiting factor. Your assembly is as good as it's weakest point - so assume a wall at 80 STC and a window (penetrating it) acheiving 55 STC. Your real isolation then is only slightly above that 55........ which you could acheive with a simple double wall and 2 layers of 5/8" drywall on each face. Next - understand - you wall assembly (even if it does work - which it might) is so much more expensive than you could acheive using standard construction techniques that it boggles my mind why you would want to make the extra investment without any additional gain. That having been said - you seem excited about the direction you're heading and almost defensive of the system you've chosen to use, so if you're happy with it - then just use it. By the way - a design of a wall assembly and the points in it that you caulk have nothing to do with flanking transmissions - those only control direct transmissions. I can promise you that with all of this additional money you spend - unless you are constructing a brand new building- and the room is an intergral part of the design - and the entire room - including the floor and ceiling - are a part of an isolated design - you will never acheive the isolation ratings they are claiming you're going to get. Build this inside of an existing building - on an existing slab ( a framed deck would be even worse) and it will be the existing that limits your isolation - and once again - what determines your ultimate isolation values. But I am very interested (regardless) in seeing the copies of their test results indicating the actual isolation at each frequenciy and exactly how they constructed the test subject. Most test facilities can't even certify ratings above 70STC because that's where flanking takes over in their labs. Sincerely, Rod

I agree with Rod, seems like a waste of money.. a :arrow:

Sometimes it takes a poke in the eye or the frowning of a lifetime to see the obvious. :oops: Any excitement in my post was not for the design but just to be moving forward with the project. Money wasn't a factor 'cause I was getting the material at cost. The construction was intended to be isolated (seperate slab, no bridging, etc). Having said that you are right I am limited to the STC of the weakest point. It wasn't until I wrote the post that the obvious became obvious. The 2 sheets of 13mm Gyprock on each face will be the way to go. Sometimes a rolled up newspaper across the snout is whats required to stop someone from doing something stupid :D Thanks Mick