nailing sole plate to concrete floor

In a previous thread someone asked if it was ok to use a power actuator to nail the wood frame wall sole plate to a concrete floor as opposed to using bolts. No one ever answered and I wanted to know this myself as I have to begin my walls tomorrow. Anyone know?

Check with the City of Anaheim's building department. You're in Earthquake Country; it would not surprise me if anchor bolts were required by building code. Even if they are not required, I highly recommend them. Rent a hammerdrill, drill out the holes using a special masonry bit, then insert the anchor bolts. When you screw on the hex bolt, they will pull up on the anchor on the shaft to make a very sturdy frame. Please trust me on this. :-) For sure, check with the city for minimum spacing. --Keith :mrgreen:

sharward wrote:

Check with the City of Anaheim's building department. You're in Earthquake Country; it would not surprise me if anchor bolts were required by building code. Even if they are not required, I highly recommend them. Rent a hammerdrill, drill out the holes using a special masonry bit, then insert the anchor bolts. When you screw on the hex bolt, they will pull up on the anchor on the shaft to make a very sturdy frame. Please trust me on this. :-) For sure, check with the city for minimum spacing. --Keith :mrgreen:

Why do you recomend it? Will there be a problem holding up two layers of dry wall if I use nails? I

eruss wrote:

sharward wrote:

Check with the City of Anaheim's building department. You're in Earthquake Country; it would not surprise me if anchor bolts were required by building code. Even if they are not required, I highly recommend them. Rent a hammerdrill, drill out the holes using a special masonry bit, then insert the anchor bolts. When you screw on the hex bolt, they will pull up on the anchor on the shaft to make a very sturdy frame. Please trust me on this. :-) For sure, check with the city for minimum spacing. --Keith :mrgreen:

Why do you recomend it? Will there be a problem holding up two layers of dry wall if I use nails? I

Have you calculated the weight of those walls?? You are looking at quite massive loads that really only sit on a 3" width of wood that without anchors will stay in place only as long as you can guarantee you wont have a seismic event or other catastrophic event. Anchors are cheap insurance, and strong enough to give that peace of mind. You could go the nail gun or construction adhesive route, but if you choose the nail gun you still have a more expensive installation, and the construction adhesive about the same as anchors, but not nearly the same sheer strength. Will there be a problem holding up twol layers of dry wall using nails?? No. But Anaheim does require anchor bolts, and IMO you'd be foolish not to use them looking at the big picture.

Under normal and calm circumstances, nails would hold a soleplate to a slab. Even under heavy loads from above, they'll still hold -- some might argue they'd hold better under heavy loads as opposed to light loads. However, apprioriate length and width anchor bolts (and, ideally, if the slab is a fresh pour, J-bolts embedded into the concrete) have far superior lateral shear strength (i.e., sideways). This is important under not normal and calm circumstances, such as earthquakes, vehicle intrusions (i.e., a car crashes into a building), etc. They are also superior in their ability to hold the walls down and keep the building together under semsic and hurricane loads where there is a tendency for the building to be subject to significant upward jolts. There are countless buildings without anchor bolts or J-bolts that have become statistics in catastrophic faiulre. The Loma Prieta (San Francisco) qake of October 17, 1989 and the Northridge quake of January 17, 1994, have taught us a lot. Even our very own Kendale experienced quite a shaker back in October of last year. I'm betting he'd be one to recommend the use of anchor bolts in your case. --Keith :mrgreen:

Most of the wall construction in my area (for new homes) have the pressure treated sole plate nailed in the concrete. It must be standard practice for my area of the country. However, if all goes according to plan, I will be using sway braces to support the upper part of my frame to my ceiling joist. In seeing Keith's info, I think I'd be better off anchoring my sole plates to the slab floor. I could be wrong but I figure those sway braces need all the "extra help-stability" they can get as far as holding up the frame, drywall & insulation... :wink:

n8nod9it wrote:

Have you calculated the weight of those walls?? You are looking at quite massive loads that really only sit on a 3" width of wood that without anchors will stay in place only as long as you can guarantee you wont have a seismic event or other catastrophic event.

I lived through the north ridge quake and a few others right under me. If a really big one comes anchor bolts wont do jack! The rest will fall down and the sole plate will be there. So what? WHat I worry about is the dry wall crashing down during a mix session when there is no earth quake! I trust you guys when you say it won't with nails. THanks.

eruss wrote:

I lived through the north ridge quake and a few others right under me. If a really big one comes anchor bolts wont do jack! The rest will fall down and the sole plate will be there. So what?

I'm sure I can produce documentation about seismic force testing on buildings with such engineering products such as anchor bolts. (I can't right now 'cuz I'm thumbtyping this on my Treo and I'm shorton time.) Combining seismic ties with anchor bolts could very well save a building from a complete collapse: :shock: Saying "they won't do jack" is at best presumptive and at worst... foolish. Have you talked with your building department to see what they require? This question may be moot. --Keith :mrgreen:

sharward wrote:

eruss wrote:

I lived through the north ridge quake and a few others right under me. If a really big one comes anchor bolts wont do jack! The rest will fall down and the sole plate will be there. So what?

I'm sure I can produce documentation about seismic force testing on buildings with such engineering products such as anchor bolts. (I can't right now 'cuz I'm thumbtyping this on my Treo and I'm shorton time.) Combining seismic ties with anchor bolts could very well save a building from a complete collapse: :shock: Saying "they won't do jack" is at best presumptive and at worst... foolish. Have you talked with your building department to see what they require? This question may be moot. --Keith :mrgreen:

WHen talking about an earthquake it's all presumtive. Tests are tests NOT the real thing. In the north ridge quake my neighbors roof and wall fell in, but the coffe table next to it with flowers was un moved! Test that! :wink: There is no scientific test for freaky. Tests dont tell you what will happen in an earthquke. THe tell you waht happens in the test. In an earth quake that big there will be more important things to worry about than my studio. No one will be recording for a while after that kind of quake anyway.

i bought a powder actuated gun and was planning to use that for my sole plates, but on Knightfly's advice went to bolts instead ... he mentioned that the concrete could crack or "spall" ... also it's hard to make sure the nails go in all the way or not too far ... i didn't know one way or the other since i had not used the gun before. but it did sound more open to unpredictable and/or frustrating results than the drill/bolt method. so i went with the drill and bolts. i used a $60 ryobi hammer drill from home depot, which worked fine. although i used 5/16 bolts when i should probably have used 1/2 ... oops. (but then again isn't a 5/16 bolt much thicker than a nail? so why do you need to use 1/2?) IMHO attaching the plate to the floor is not a very time consuming part of the project, however you decide to do it. and i still have the gun, since i lost the HD receipt. typical of me. :(

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:

i bought a powder actuated gun and was planning to use that for my sole plates, but on Knightfly's advice went to bolts instead ... he mentioned that the concrete could crack or "spall" ... also it's hard to make sure the nails go in all the way or not too far ... i didn't know one way or the other since i had not used the gun before. but it did sound more open to unpredictable and/or frustrating results than the drill/bolt method. so i went with the drill and bolts. i used a $60 ryobi hammer drill from home depot, which worked fine. although i used 5/16 bolts when i should probably have used 1/2 ... oops. (but then again isn't a 5/16 bolt much thicker than a nail? so why do you need to use 1/2?) IMHO attaching the plate to the floor is not a very time consuming part of the project, however you decide to do it. and i still have the gun, since i lost the HD receipt. typical of me. :(

I bought this Firestorm B&D from HD. It drilled literally like 4 holes and the electric motor fried....lol Its more crap from China that doesn't work like its supposed to. I returned it and just used my regular heavy duty non-hammer drill..and it worked fine. Tip when drilling into concrete: Add water. Keeps the bit cool and dust down while making the drilling faster! :D

Another tip: use a compressor to blow out the concrete dust from the hole periodically as you go. I just used a car-battery powered emergency tire inflation pump with a sports ball inflater attachment.

hmmmm. interesting tip Keith. the drill bit does pull up most of the dust out of the hole, but the problem is that a lot of it goes back in the hole once the drill bit is removed. that made me remember, i used an old paint brush to sweep the dust away from the hole before pulling out.

I used a nail gun. It works fine. The smell of gun powder was quite nice too. :P Reminded me of my youth days hunting.

I just recently got a good Hilti hammer-drill/breaker.... In the breaker mode it's like a small jackhammer.... You can put on chisel bits or points as well as twist bits, etc.. I got it so that I could greatly enlarge an existing very small sump pit... That nite I just wanted to try it out and drill a hole or two; all went so fast and smooth, I ended up doing most of it right then (but not the new cement work of course).... Great tool. I'll post some pics of the progress on my thread sometime...

Hello Awaking an old thread, but I would like to know, if there is a way to decouple a wall from the floor, when that wall is fixed with anchor, as I'm planning to do (because of seismic place too !) ? Thanks :) -fx