Now, exactly how do you do this?

I need to restart this thread as our other has gotten out of hand with too many side bar conversations. Here is a picture of the front right corner of the control room. The RIGHT side speaker will be mounted in a sofit in THAT corner. The white color in the picture is the existing wall, painted white, 3/4 inch gypsum, metal stud in the middle, and 3/4 inch gypsum on the other side. (You cant see the metal stud and you can't see the gypsum on the other side in the picture, DUH! you have to use your imagination.) You can plainly see the wood studs in front of that existing wall. The same as I just described is behind the rest of the walls in the picture that was not demolitioned as of the taking of this picture. (But iit is now which is why I am asking this question because it is time to frame and I don't want to make any mistakes.) QUESTION???????? Do we drywall over that wood frame that you see in the picture THEN create a new wood frame which will have the angles and support the baffles OR, do we modify THAT wood frame to create the angeld walls that hold the baffles??? If we are suppose to do the latter, then we might as well tear down that frame and start again as that frame is, in many places, touching the existing wall. Danny, do not post here as I need to focus on the responces that people hopfully will give us.

Aloha eruss, Just for clarification, have you switched the control room & live rooms, and if so, what is on the other side of the white wall...the unused office space? Aloha 8)

I am a bit confused as to your terms, and exactly how that wall is constructed?? Are you saying,,,,going from the inside out,,,,you have Whatever wall covering was on it (now looks to be mostly ripped off) then the exposed wooden studs,,,, then your one layer of gypsum then the metal studs (with space (cavities) on both sides of them) then a layer of gypsum on the outside/otherside ?? Is this right??? because if this is what you have, and you add yet another layer of whatever on top of those studs, you just blew the M-A-M theory. Wouldnt that now be a 3 leaf system?? (which you dont want). Dont know what your budget is, and how much work you want to put in it, but I would probably rip out everything down to the outside layer and metal studs, then build ONE interior wall such that you incoorporate your angled corners for your monitors etc etc, and also keeping it a 2 leaf system. (Mass Air Mass). Maybe cut out that interior gypsum and pancake it to the outside for more mass so its not wasted>?>? (Gotta ask the pros on that one) The above is just my opinion and I am new to this whole construction thing, so keep that in mind. :wink: And my opinion is based off the advice I have received here so far on here. I am sure one of the resident experts on here can better assist, but I wanted to give it a shot. :wink: Least get the answer process started. AJ

kendale wrote:

Just for clarification, have you switched the control room & live rooms, and if so, what is on the other side of the white wall...the unused office space?

The owner does not like the idea of us switching them but yes, I want to, so I am asking as if I am going to and if he does not let us then I will deal with it later. YES, it is empty office space on the other side of the white wall. Are you thinking to dry wall over that wood frame in the picture then create another frame inside that for the curved walls and baffles?

Aloha,

yes, I want to, so I am asking as if I am going to and if he does not let us then I will deal with it later.

Okay, cool.

YES, it is empty office space on the other side of the white wall.

Okay, cool.

Are you thinking to dry wall over that wood frame in the picture then create another frame inside that for the curved walls and baffles?

Not quite, because that will create a third & fourth leaf system which oddly enough, will give less isolation than a proper two leaf system. So, that being the case, can you determine whether or not there is any insulation between the two layers of drywall, please? Aloha 8)

kendale wrote:

So, that being the case, can you determine whether or not there is any insulation between the two layers of drywall, please?

Some has been stuffed in from the top by the previous people who built the studio before. So let's go with the answer of NO to your question because what insulation that might be there is probagby not in correctly. Does it matter anyway?

Aloha,

Some has been stuffed in from the top by the previous people who built the studio before. So let's go with the answer of NO to your question because what insulation that might be there is probagby not in correctly. Does it matter anyway?

Yes. Part of the function of properly installed insulation is to dampen the drywall from resonating. With no insulation, the drywall on both sides of that cavity will resonate at some freq. (usually a low one - say like traffic rumble) which will add low freq noise to your room & ultimately if your mics are picking them up, your recordings. If you are able to obtain permission to do so, (and if that currently exposed framed wall is not a load bearing wall!) you could carefully: - remove the exposed framing (to be reused) - remove one side of the drywall - caulk all the interior frame/ remaining office-side drywall seams - properly install the insulation (be sure to use some sort of support to hold insulation to studs/drywall - nylon strapping works well) - frame a new wall 2"- 4" apart from the now insulated office wall - insulate new wall using above mentioned insulation support - re-install control room side drywall with 2-3 layers, being sure to stagger & caulk the seams (very important here) - add 2-3 layers of drywall on the office side, staggering and caulking the seams. You would now have a properly installed 2 leaf wall system that should give you a STC of 63 or better. This may seem like a lot of work and expense, and it is. However, can you afford the time and expense further down the road to redo the construction, especially when you're already this close to being there at this point? Or are you willing to accept the noise as is with your current construction? Time, talent & resources being what they are, often determine our choices. Choose wisely, my friend. :wink: It's important to remember that this wall is just one part of a system. Your floors, ceilings and other walls/doors/windows all contribute to the whole. Any compromise in any part of the system will result in a compromise of "less than what could have been." Here's a diagram to give you an idea of what I'm trying to describe above. Hope this hleps, Aloha 8)

kendale wrote:

You would now have a properly installed 2 leaf wall system that should give you a STC of 63 or better.

That's what I'm talkin bout!!!! EXCEPT, We will not be able to add any layers to the other side of all the walls. MAYBE on the office side, but remember there are 3 other sides. One of which is the live room. No problem there but the other are completely out of the question. I understand that a big key is to do what ever we do correctly no matter how many layers it is. Your diagram has THREE layers on each side. I wonder what STC we will get with ONE layer on the out side leaf and TWO layers on the inside leaf. Now, NEXT question: Shouldn't or, coudn't we angle those side walls? Also, the wood frames that you see in the picture I posted above were full of R-11 insulation with paper backing. Can we re-use that?

You out there Kendale?

Aloha,

Shouldn't or, coudn't we angle those side walls?

The walls pictured are your "exterior" walls. You do not want to angle them. You will want to angle your side slat wall absorber walls which is built inside of the exterior walls. See attached.

Also, the wood frames that you see in the picture I posted above were full of R-11 insulation with paper backing. Can we re-use that?

Steve (Knightfly) had a post on when & when not to use paper faced insulation. A search on this site may prove fruitful. Aloha 8)

kendale wrote:

You do not want to angle them. You will want to angle your side slat wall absorber walls which is built inside of the exterior walls.

May I ask why? I have seen many pictures of designs made by John Sayer that have the walls angeled. I have recorded in Ocean Way, Studio Ultimo, Enterprize, Lion Share and many other top studios and as I remember, but mayby I am mistaken, they all have angled walls with absorption on the angled walls. Did you ever finish your ideas for our live room? I would love to see them.

Aloha,

May I ask why?

There is a recent thread (try a search) covering some of the reasons why you want to build your exterior walls straight and then angle your acoustic treatments to break up the parallel surfaces. To my mind, the key words here are exterior walls, acoustic treatments, and rented office/business space. I too, have seen several of John's designs as well as professional purpose-built studios that incorporate angled walls in the structure, but these are/were primarily owner/purpose built facilities as opposed to rented office space. You may also want to consider it a courtesy to the property owner and/or any future tenants. Perhaps you might consider asking the owner if its okay with him for you to build permanently angled walls in his building. If its okay with him, and after reviewing the above mentioned post, and find that it is still a viable option and helps in achieving the isolation you need, then by all means. Again, this is just my point of view considering the circumstances, and you will have to ultimately make your own decisions based on your discernment and preferences, as well as what and how much you are allowed to do.

Did you ever finish your ideas for our live room? I would love to see them.

Not yet, but I'll post them as soon as I'm able. Aloha 8)

kendale wrote:

There is a recent thread (try a search) covering some of the reasons why you want to build your exterior walls straight and then angle your acoustic treatments to break up the parallel surfaces. To my mind, the key words here are exterior walls, acoustic treatments, and rented office/business space. I too, have seen several of John's designs as well as professional purpose-built studios that incorporate angled walls in the structure, but these are/were primarily owner/purpose built facilities as opposed to rented office space. You may also want to consider it a courtesy to the property owner and/or any future tenants. Perhaps you might consider asking the owner if its okay with him for you to build permanently angled walls in his building. If its okay with him, and after reviewing the above mentioned post, and find that it is still a viable option and helps in achieving the isolation you need, then by all means. Again, this is just my point of view considering the circumstances, and you will have to ultimately make your own decisions based on your discernment and preferences, as well as what and how much you are allowed to do.

Ok. Thank you sooooooooo much.

Hey kendale I just wanted to kind of shed some light. These two rooms were built FOR a STUDIO. So they were built (incorrectly) and we are just redoing the walls, and ultimately the acoustics to fit our needs. The owner knows of the adjustments the room might be going through, and it is not in the way of anybody or anything, and considering that "studio" has been around since 1994 with not much use (mainly amatour) its already known as "the studio". With that said, I guess this is odd to ask but can you clarify wether we should or should not angle the walls (since half the room is torn down :twisted: ) and if so, is our posted design made well enough?

dannycurtean wrote:

With that said, I guess this is odd to ask but can you clarify wether we should or should not angle the walls....

I believe he was very clear. He said this:

If its okay with him, and after reviewing the above mentioned post, and find that it is still a viable option and helps in achieving the isolation you need, then by all means.