Can you use core boreing, and bolts for the walls as well? I know it is most common to use nails, but if the maisonary nails bend like they have, there won't be much you can do about it. I agree with the core boreing, then bolting the the floor, just let me know if it's acceptable for walls as well. I'd imagine using bolts for the walls would turn out to be very expensive, and time consuming, and might lead to worse results. If nothing can be done, I'll just have to waste a couple of maisonary nails, when I find areas that can't be nailed.
The infamous Floating floor Thread
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 8134.
You could try a power-accuated nailer. They use what looks like 22cal. gun ammo. They are color coded for different charge power, larger loads for more depth,hardness. They look like a chisle( low end modles) that you strike with a hammer,safty glasses or goggles highly recommended.
Taco, you do NOT want to nail your walls to the concrete walls you already have - then you loose your isolation - that's one of the importantitems here - how to deal with building a room within a room that is isolated from the existing structure to avoid flanking paths..... you want your rooms to almost float inside the existing ones- this is done through the use of isolating connectors - structural sheathing - carefull attention to isolating details. Otherwise you end up spending all kinds of money for nothing - because the sound will just pass through the building anyway..... RodCan you use core boreing, and bolts for the walls as well? I know it is most common to use nails, but if the maisonary nails bend like they have, there won't be much you can do about it. I agree with the core boreing, then bolting the the floor, just let me know if it's acceptable for walls as well. I'd imagine using bolts for the walls would turn out to be very expensive, and time consuming, and might lead to worse results. If nothing can be done, I'll just have to waste a couple of maisonary nails, when I find areas that can't be nailed.
So I've been following this thread with great interest.
Rod (or other experts)... if floating a floor is cost prohibitive and/or risky for an underbudgeted amateur, what from your point of view is the best idea for an "average" basement studio for the homeowner whose goal is to improve isolation on a budget?
Of course I realize each situation is to some extent unique, but as a general principle, what's the best point of departure for designing a basement home studio in terms of dealing with the floor?
Thanks for all your expertise and intellectual generosity....
Rod,
I don't have concrete walls. It's a warehouse. I was talking about nailing the frame of the walls into the concrete floor.
Sorry - I missunderstood the statement - OK- you should nail the walls to the floor - YOU DO NOT USE A HARD CONNECTION (NAILS TO FLOOR) FOR ISOLATED DECKS. THEY DEFEAT THE PURPOSE. If you have an isolated deck you then construct your walls on top of that. RodRod, I don't have concrete walls. It's a warehouse. I was talking about nailing the frame of the walls into the concrete floor.
The best is to just leave it alone....... Picture - you have this huge mass in the basement called a slab- it sits on top of tons of earth - it's surrounded by walls with tons of mass- that are backfilled with tons of earth...... Except for in very weird cases (i.e.: highly hydraulic earths with high water content - OR the inverse of that - both you and a neighbor have your foundations pinned to the same run of bedrock) the amount of transmission you receive in the upper level of the home or outside of the house - is VERY small coming from this slab. It just takes too much energy to move it that much.... It's the airborne sound that transmits through the deck - deck assembly, windows, doors, ducts, pipes, holes, etc., etc., etc. that cause 99% of your problems. For existing slab on grade I am a firm advocate of leave it alone- By the way - just for the record - this isn't just my opinion - any honest manufacturer specializing in isolating products will tell you that wood decks are great for impact noise - but lousy for stopping loud airborn sound from transmitting through. I back this up with this from Mason Inustries - a leader in the industry when it comes to specialty isolating products.So I've been following this thread with great interest. Rod (or other experts)... if floating a floor is cost prohibitive and/or risky for an underbudgeted amateur, what from your point of view is the best idea for an "average" basement studio for the homeowner whose goal is to improve isolation on a budget? Of course I realize each situation is to some extent unique, but as a general principle, what's the best point of departure for designing a basement home studio in terms of dealing with the floor? Thanks for all your expertise and intellectual generosity....
Now- you have a company who wants to part you from your money by selling you their products...... but they're honest about the results you're going to get. If you look at the U-boats from Auralex(and understand - they're friends of mine over their - but I disagree with them on this particular issue) and inquired as to their tested effectiveness - you'd find out that they never have them actually tested - They know what the results would be - so at least this way they can make statements like (and yes I have heard this from them) "well they're better than nothing for someone who can't aqfford to really do it right" That's a load of crap - If I can't tell you what they will do - I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT THEY WON'T DO.... It's that simple - it's possible you get luck and things work - it's possible you get unlucky and things magnify (yup - you really can increse sound transmission with an isolated deck constructed wrong)... it's possible you get everything built and have it be so bad when you're done- that you just can't live with it - and end up ripping it all apart to start over again. If you're lucky you built slab on grade (basement or garage( and can just remove the deck and insulation then fill it with sand - if you aren'tlucky- if you built it on a 2nd floor deck that couldn't stand the weight - you can just rip everything apart to get rid of it. Me - personally I don't like to take chances - so I wouldn't spec a wood deck if mylife depended on it - if they can't afford a properly designed elevated concrete deck - or if the structure can't support it - then perhaps they should save more money - relocate, etc. etc. etc....... Sincerely, Rod"It is often necessary to provide a wooden floating floor rather than the heavier concrete construction with wood topping. Cost or weight restrictions may be the factor. In older buildings, it is often necessary to improve on existing floors with a lightweight impact noise resistant construction. A resiliently supported wooden floor will reduce the rumbling noise of a bowling ball, the click, click of a woman’s heels and that portion of a typical noise generated by a piano that travels down the piano legs and into the structure. It will offer only minor reduction of airborne sound, as there is insufficent mass in the surface."
Thanks for clearing that up, Rod.
So to make sure I understand what you're saying: in most home basement studios, you'd leave the concrete floor (slab on grade) as is, and build up your double-walls from the concrete floor (assuming there is more than one room in the studio), with the framing bolted directly to the concrete?
Then if you want warmer floors, you'd use the method you mentioned earlier (MDF on top of insulation, screwed into the floor)?
Thanks for clearing this up for me/us....
a High Density Styrofoam I believe. Don't know if it makes a difference if you were to use insulation, and compress it with the floor.