Help with warehouse studio PLZ!

Afternoon. I just recently got my hands on a warehouse with plenty of space, I plan on building a studio there. My price range is probably about $5k, not taking into account expansion (for example, hardware floors can be done later). Unfortunately no matter how many articles, or forum posts I read... I just can't design... If anyone is willing to throw in any ideas, I'd really appreciate it. Here's the info. I'm attaching a sketchup file, all the measurements in it are accurate. The entire warehouse is draw, and according to scale. All Dimensions posted are the INSIDE dimensions, as the outside does not matter to me. the building (inner) is 38 feet wide, by 54 feet long with 13 ft high ceiling, that then angles up to about 21 feet. There are beams every 19 feet (as shown) that protrude 1 foot out of the wall at there largest portion. (see the Google sketchup file if you don't know what I mean, they're the rust colored beams. As a note, the 6 foot doorway needs to be clear, and so does a path in front of it. A forklift needs to be able to drive through. There is already a room in the building, this is not mine, and cannot be moved. This actually isn't the full warehouse. It continues after the 6 foot door. I didn't bother drawing the rest, as what is shown is what I have access to. the beams, air conditioning unit, and room are under different layers, so you can rid yourself of them if needed. Basically, I've drawn where I was thinking about constructing the studio (it's highlighted in yellow in the picture below). But I'm open for suggestions. The warehouse itself is part of what used to be an army base. The warehouse is insulated greatly, and constructed sheet metal with a concrete floor. I wanted to build a floor with the studio. Planned on using 1/2 inch thick plywood as the floor, and then maybe building hardwood over it later. As for the studio, I'm looking for a basic setup. Again I'm open for suggestions, but here's what I'm looking to do with it. I obviously plan on having a control room, a studio, and a vocal booth. The important two are the control room and studio, if I can't get the vocal booth now, I can always add-on later. I wanted to use the studio for both recording bands, and as a rehearsal room for my band. So the studio (live room) needs to be large enough to fit a full band in, although any actual recording would be done tracked. I'd probably want to have a window looking from the control room into the studio. I know it seems like I'm being a lazy jerk, but truly I just don't have an idea of what to do, nor the experience to make it right. I just want to build this right, the first time, and not waste money on an amateur design. I'm begging for help! please.

Hello, Honestly you have no chance of building anything for 5K even if all the labour was free, Ive just build a studio, 2 control rooms, shared live room, iso booth lobby in a 25 x 50 space.......current cost $16000 and still floors and acoustic treatment to layout for........ If your taking a place this big you seriously need to contact a local surveyour and architect with studio build experiance to make this work.. You have space for 3 separate studios there.....rent out the other 2 and cover your costs to have all that space for one place for 5K is stupid no offence. I think you need to be finding another 20K at least for this Regards J

I don't mean to be rude. But my specifications said two rooms, plus a vocal booth at the most. I'm not covering the entire warehouse space. I plan on building in it, not filling it, like I said, somebody else uses it too. The labor is free, I've several people who used to be contractors, they will help build. Again, one control room, one studio (live room), and a vocal booth. My budget is not limited to 5k, it was just an estimate. I'm most definitely not building multiple studios. If your 2 controll room, live room, lobby, and vocal booth project cost you 16k... I'm pretty sure mine won't reach 20k... considering it's about half the project as yours. Perhaps you misread the specs. Perhaps I should remove the budget in general, if it's going to affect the way people might build it... I want it done right, I don't really care what the cost is, i can do the project in sections, floor framing first, followed by room framing, insulation, flooring, walling, so on so forth. And just so we're clear. There is no rent. My family owned business, of which I have no part in (family... as in father owned business) currently owns this warehouse, along with another one. They offered me space to build a studio, not the whole warehouse. However, as much space as I need, i can have.

however many "rooms" is it, a control room live room and iso booth counts as 1 studio. You where not clear about the fact you where only using some of it. Budget it very important so you need to leave it up or think about it realistically..... Obviously your going to have to put in a ceiling which is very expensive and has to be done correctly so you should work out how to get it up and running as basic as possible construction wise so you get all the things you need to start running..no point in adding things in later as this will only be a nightmare, plan something right from the start and stick to it even if it means spending more initially you will save time and hassle in the future. Good luck, but I still think you need to get someone to have a look at it in person or at least put up some photos Best J

I apprieciate the help, but again, i'm not looking for how to's right now. I'm looking for a studio design. I don't care what it is going to cost, because I'm looking for the design, materials, ceilings, and floors can be planned after I find the initial design. I put up the specifications of how many rooms. A control room, live room, and vocal booth. All I'm looking for is a design to work with. The flooring and ceiling doesn't matter at this point, it will be considered after I find a design... for example, something as simple as a drum... can you decide what head to put on a drum before knowing the size? no... as an afterthought. I don't need to post pictures, because I made a model. The dimensions are all very acurate, and I have included any objects that are stationary. If I took pictures it would be more difficult, considering you'd have an environment not easy to observe... it would basically look exactly the same as the model I made, except with real textures, and a bunch of boxes.... but again, I thank you for your help. So, just to be clear again, I'm really looking for anyone to help with a studio design, I'm really not good at the design portion. Materials, floor construction, ceiling construction are all going to be handled afterwards. Please, i'm beggin for some help.

Aloha Captain, Got a few ideas on the table, so hopefully I'll be able to post a general idea shortly. In the meantime, here's a few for you to consider. Aloha 8)

Awesome. Look forward to hearing from you. thanks.

reviewing some of the designs, it's becoming clear that I don't have ideal room for it, I have a large space, but really no good place. So. There are two warehouses. I can use the other one, it's the same size, but that room that's up isn't there. Basically, it'll give me a whole lot more room to do what I please. In the new warehouse, where there is the current room (16 x 16), there is no door (against the wall). see attached picture.

Aloha Cap'n, Two more for Warehouse 1 (acoustic treatments to follow) Aloha 8)

Aloha Cap'n, In Warehouse 2, how much room can you use? Aloha 8)

Aloha kendale! Thanks for the help, I like the designs so far! as to your question All of it if I really needed lol I just want the perfect dimensions lol, if such a thing exists, point being, a likeable amount of room, something you think you'd feel comfortable working.. I liked the 22 feet wide concept. It would make a nice sized live room. But you're free to use up any space in it. Thanks again for the helP!

Aloha Cap'n,,

I just want the perfect dimensions lol, if such a thing exists, point being, a likeable amount of room, something you think you'd feel comfortable working.. I liked the 22 feet wide concept. It would make a nice sized live room. But you're free to use up any space in it.

Room Ratios - In Rod Gervais’ book “Build it Like the Pros,” he points out both L.W.Sepmeyer’s & M.M. Louden’s formulas most widely used in professional studios worldwide. He also notes that the orders listed are (top to bottom) the first to third best ratios in both cases. M.M. Louden Height Width Length 1.00 1.40 1.90 1.00 1.30 1.90 1.00 1.50 2.10 1.00 x 1.40 x 1.90 12’ x 16’8” x 22’8” Here are a couple of layouts for you to consider. Which do you prefer? (iso booth & acoustic treatments to follow) Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros (Paperback) by Rod Gervais http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5670

Aloha Kendale! Again, thanks for the speedy reply. I'm a fan of the top design, considering I like the control booth facing the live room (i'll put a window in the front) in CaptainTaco 3a, I might add a vocal booth up top, which leaves room to extend the live room higher, but I'll try that myself and see what you think, keeping the ratios in mind. The only problem I'd have with a bigger room is the ceiling height, 12 is doo-able, if I extend the live room, it'd have to be higher, and that might be a problem. Or instead of extending the live room I could add a lounge to the design lol. I'll see what works best, the way I see it I don't think a lounge is really all that important, because I can just use the control room as a lounge. Thanks for those dimension schemes, I've seen them before, but couldn't find them again when I tried to Should I follow those same ratios when making the vocal booth? Looking at the previous designs it doesn't look like the vocal booth follows the same ratios. Outside of the design work, just in discussion, I was probably gonna build a computer... well... box really, outside of the insulation (basically outside of the structure i'm going to build, I'll make it vented, and run everything into that room, my audio interfaces all run off of firewire and ethernet (PCI) so I could probably get away with it, i saw in one of your designs a computer room, that's why I brought it up, you think it's a good idea, or should I just keep my computers in the control room, they can get noisy at times... And again, thanks for the help!

Aloha Cap'n,

I'm a fan of the top design, considering I like the control booth facing the live room (i'll put a window in the front)

Glad to hear it's a step in the right direction. A window would be a good idea.

in CaptainTaco 3a, I might add a vocal booth up top, which leaves room to extend the live room higher, but I'll try that myself and see what you think, keeping the ratios in mind.

Not sure what you mean by "up top." We'll see what your drawing reveals.

Should I follow those same ratios when making the vocal booth? Looking at the previous designs it doesn't look like the vocal booth follows the same ratios.

Here's a few quotes & links from John and Steve on vocal booths: Vocal Booth Acoustic Treatment - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpeg Venting a Vocal Booth - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpeg Vocal Booths - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ?p=443#443 Building a Vocal Booth - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpeg Iso Booth Ideas - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpeg

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=443#443 A vocal booth need to be quite dead with no apparent room sound if you want a tight vocal sound. When I say dead I mean right across the frequency spectrum which requires various absorbers aimed at different frequency ranges. Have you been to the SAE site? check out absorbers. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html cheers, john

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=948&highlight=vocal+booth+jpeg Mode-wise, a 5 x 6 x 7 (inside) booth looks very good. It will also fit into an 8 foot ceilinged area if necessary, and is big enough for 3 (very) friendly vocalists or 1-2 with a guitar, so that's what I'm going to start with. Once I finish (don't stop breathing while you wait, I have 'way too many projects still open) you could change dimensions to suit, just do NOT make any two dimensions the same, or more than one dimension in even # of feet. Steve

Outside of the design work, just in discussion, I was probably gonna build a computer... well... box really, outside of the insulation (basically outside of the structure i'm going to build, I'll make it vented, and run everything into that room, my audio interfaces all run off of firewire and ethernet (PCI) so I could probably get away with it, i saw in one of your designs a computer room, that's why I brought it up, you think it's a good idea, or should I just keep my computers in the control room, they can get noisy at times...

A computer box/room would be a good idea, as they do tend to get noisy and generate heat. Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

Aloha Cap'n,

I'm a fan of the top design, considering I like the control booth facing the live room (i'll put a window in the front)

Glad to hear it's a step in the right direction. A window would be a good idea.

in CaptainTaco 3a, I might add a vocal booth up top, which leaves room to extend the live room higher, but I'll try that myself and see what you think, keeping the ratios in mind.

Not sure what you mean by "up top." We'll see what your drawing reveals.

Should I follow those same ratios when making the vocal booth? Looking at the previous designs it doesn't look like the vocal booth follows the same ratios.

Here's a few quotes & links from John and Steve on vocal booths: Vocal Booth Acoustic Treatment - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpeg Venting a Vocal Booth - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpeg Vocal Booths - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ?p=443#443 Building a Vocal Booth - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpeg Iso Booth Ideas - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpeg

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=443#443 A vocal booth need to be quite dead with no apparent room sound if you want a tight vocal sound. When I say dead I mean right across the frequency spectrum which requires various absorbers aimed at different frequency ranges. Have you been to the SAE site? check out absorbers. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html cheers, john

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=948&highlight=vocal+booth+jpeg Mode-wise, a 5 x 6 x 7 (inside) booth looks very good. It will also fit into an 8 foot ceilinged area if necessary, and is big enough for 3 (very) friendly vocalists or 1-2 with a guitar, so that's what I'm going to start with. Once I finish (don't stop breathing while you wait, I have 'way too many projects still open) you could change dimensions to suit, just do NOT make any two dimensions the same, or more than one dimension in even # of feet. Steve

Outside of the design work, just in discussion, I was probably gonna build a computer... well... box really, outside of the insulation (basically outside of the structure i'm going to build, I'll make it vented, and run everything into that room, my audio interfaces all run off of firewire and ethernet (PCI) so I could probably get away with it, i saw in one of your designs a computer room, that's why I brought it up, you think it's a good idea, or should I just keep my computers in the control room, they can get noisy at times...

A computer box/room would be a good idea, as they do tend to get noisy and generate heat. Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

Thanks a lot kendale, that did help. Ok. So since I'm really bad at using google scetchup, it took me about 3 hours to make this lol. I learned groups, and shortcut keys this go round, as well as copying and resizing which made things easier, but all in all sketchup has an awful work environment. I used to make games in programs like 3d game studio, oh the work environment was so much better, being able to move/rotate/look/zoom all with the mouse, and clicking different ways, no shortcut keys needed... that was the life... But anyways, here's what I was thinking... I know, the more we get into, the more complicated it seems to become. Now I understand why that guy said it'd cost a lot more than $5k, not because the original concept would be that expensive, but because it would become that expensive lol. So this is the basic Idea, I added the vocal booth, and changed the direction of the live room, it also became a little bit bigger accidentally, do to the addition of the vocal booth. I know there are probably awful flaws in this design, but let me know, thanks! EDIT: When looking at the picture below, the vocal both is the room in th e middle. The room to the left of that would just be a little entrance hallway thing. DOUBLE EDIT: Ok, so a mind confuddling issue.. yes... confuddling... no, it's not a word.... a mind confuddling issue i've had since the start of creating these rooms is the separation. For easy to define areas... Lets refer to the picture below. The "X" wall will be the horizontal wall in the picture below (longest wall). The "Y"wall will be the vertical wall in the picture below (the shorter wall) I'm confused about what should be separated and what shouldn't. For example, there are two walls between the control room and the live room. Does this mean that the "X" wall needs to have a break in it too? to separate the two rooms completely?. The floors are going to be built up from the cement ground. Should the floor of the control room be separate from the live rooms floors? If yes, then this would make having the "X" wall just be one wall that continues along both rooms. I'm just confused by the general Idea. I really don't want to build these rooms, and then build another wall around them. That would seem like an awful lot of work and money. As another note, I also didn't really want it to look like a bunch of separate rooms when you're on the outside of it. Whelp I think i just confused myself, so I probably confused you too... if you need any help understanding that, let me know lol. thanks again.

After a little study, and a little work. I decided this might work a bit better. I also fixed the problem with the dimensions in the last attachment. I'm just going to take that attachment down. I also added colors to the rooms, this way i can talk about them easier Vocal booth is green Control room is blue Live room is red and entrance hall... foyer?... is grey The vocal booth dimensions were difficult. I don't know how to use those ratios in an odd shaped room. So if there is something wrong with the dimensions, let me know. Other than that I think the design is coming along well. What do you think? Any feedback? Thanks ahead of time! EDIT: I changed the design a bit again. The vocal booth was looking rather square, so i lengthened it a bit. (CTstudio2) I'm not sure whether I like it or not though. I think it might be huge... the perpendicular walls measure 7 feet 3 inches, and 8 feet 7 inches. That is a pretty big room. Again I ask, what do you think?

"But anyways, here's what I was thinking... I know, the more we get into, the more complicated it seems to become. Now I understand why that guy said it'd cost a lot more than $5k, not because the original concept would be that expensive, but because it would become that expensive lol. " Good :) Just didnt want others to face unexpected costs that all, intially yea its manageable but when you break it all down its alot of money to do it right and its worth doing right! Still wanna see the photos tho, gives a good idea of what space we are dealing with 8)

Aloha Cap'n, Looks good. Next you need to figure out where you want your entry points and windows for your line of sight. Aloha 8)

aloha kendale, well I added in the entry points, and windows for line of site. Along with this I textured it in planning what materials may be used. I'm not sure what walls should be live and which should be dead. The next step, I guess, is acoustic treatment. Any Ideas?

Aloha Cap'n, Great job on your doors & windows.

The next step, I guess, is acoustic treatment. Any Ideas?

Here's an excerpt from the SAE website - http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html Be sure to check out the site, as it's got a lot of great info. Click on the "acoustics" & "absorbers" tabs at left, and again those at the top of the pages.

For an instrument to sound good you must hear a balance of its high and low frequencies. If your room is too dead in the high frequencies the instrument sounds lifeless and tubby, whereas if it's too live in the high frequencies the instrument sounds distant and has no presence. To balance a room you must have a true balance of the high frequencies and the low frequencies with the right amount of deadness to liveness. John Sayers

I have a plan that is too big (even after being zipped) that may be useful to you. If you would PM your email address, I could send it to you if you like. Aloha 8)

Aloha, Here's a quick overview of what's where. Areas outlined in: - red - usually reflective - slat wall absorbers - blue - absorptive - cloth over insulation panels - yellow (front bezels) - top half reflective usually multiple layers of mdf/plywood, bottom half (ported & baffled) absorptive - cloth over insulation panels - fuchsia - corner traps - usually absorptive (cloth over insulation panels) in rear of control room, but sometimes reflective (slat absorbers) in live rooms, depending on room requirements. Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

aloha, Looks good, I'm working on building a perfect model of the full studio, including framing. I'll post it when finished, thanks for your help, love the design. EDIT: Working progress, frame work without doors. Building the frame work model really shows you what size the studio is going to be, you don't realize how large it is until you see the frames around it. It's going to be a beautiful studio when complete, I can't wait. As a note to anyone that cares, probably no one, but whatever, I'm going to say it anyway. The dimensions of the full studio changed, although the inside dimensions are the same, the fact that wall sizes and drywall size has been taken into consideration, the entire studio is actually a bit larger now. I tried to leave about 8 inches in between the walls of the studio and control room, more as a just in case factor, I figured it couldn't hurt to have a little extra space, plus it'll leave a good amount of room for wiring.

Aloha, You're getting pretty good with those skp files, Cap'n. :wink:

The dimensions of the full studio changed, although the inside dimensions are the same, the fact that wall sizes and drywall size has been taken into consideration, the entire studio is actually a bit larger now. I tried to leave about 8 inches in between the walls of the studio and control room, more as a just in case factor, I figured it couldn't hurt to have a little extra space, plus it'll leave a good amount of room for wiring.

It's nice when you've got the space to do that. Here's a thought for you...since you are being housed in a metal warehouse perhaps you might want to consider framing another wall around your current layout to help with your isolation, as the metal skin of the building will not help in that area. Aloha 8)

aloha, Thanks for the compliment kendale! That would be a good idea. However, that would start getting very expensive, estimated cost to do that outer wall is a little over $3000, when insulation and drywall are taken into consideration. I would love to do it, but it definitely won't be on the top of my priority list. Plus that really is something I could tack on afterwards, when budget permits it. That was the only disadvantage of using warehouse 2, it has more space, but warehouse 1 was insulated. We all make our sacrifices. from the floating floor thread in studio constructions forum, I've decided what I'm going to do for a floor. From Rods suggestion, I plan on doing a wood floor, that acts like it is one leaf with the cement. I plan on building the flooring inside the rooms as suggested, putting down a layer of moisture sealing material (probably type of polyurethane lay), I'll then put down about quarter inch piece of insulating High Density Styrofoam, and finally on top of that put the 5/8's sub flooring plywood. This will then be screwed into the cement. I still haven't decided what I'm going to do with the ceilings. I know on the inside of the room I'd like to have it open, showing the insulation, and wrap cloth around that, maybe make some sort of frame. As for slanting, I don't know if I want to make a slant in each room, or have on continuous slant that goes across the whole studio, best option would probably be making a slant in each room, of course slanting downwards to the front of the room ( control panel side). If anyone has any suggestions that might be better for the ceiling, let me know. BTW, thank you for that email Kendale. I have actually seen that studio before, of course, only now does it make sense, because that was back when I first started looking at the studio. It's not only a great look at the acoustic treatment, but also a great look at how to build those fronts for the monitors. Very interesting, and useful, thank you. I noticed though that the boxes, and base for the speaker look like they are made out of a different material than the MDF fronts that go over them. Is this the case, or should I make the box, and base of the speaker stands out of MDF as well?