Just a small help needed

Hi, people! Best wishes for you and your forum! I'm rookie in all of this so have patience with me :). Me and my friends produce techno-electro & electro-poprock (something like that:)). So there's a lot of low frequencies and some of the vocals that we combine. I learned many smart tips on designing of home studio from this forum. It's very useful, that is for sure... However, I have a feeling that I'm in the middle of something that I don't understand so I decided to use your plan (small studio.skp in the attachment) exactly how it is for building my studio. But I have some little problems with measurements for the control room. If someone can grab some time, could he point me a few directions? 1. Lenght of the control room in your file is same like mine (4.0 m) but width of my room is 2.40 m. Does that make any trouble? 2. Do I need to change the angles of walls or bass traps or can I leave them like they are? 2. I'm going to use mineral wool for insulation 5cm thick. Is that OK? 3. On the wall behind console you have cloth right next to insulation but on the other walls there's a little empty air space (about 2cm at the sides and about 4cm in front of the console). Is that right? 4. Which material do I need for clothes? How about cotton? Which thicknes? 5. What is a difference among cloth and black cloth in your project? 6. Which material do I need for slots? And which thicknes? And I have just one question about studio room. We are going to record only vocals in there. Do we need to derange a geometry of the studio room like in control room or we can leave it square, like it is now? I'll be very greatful if anyone could answer as soon as it is possible. Thank's in advance...

Aloha and welcome to the forum, Tatko Congrats on your studio build! A couple of questions for you to begin with, and then hopefully some answers for your post. - At what point in your project are you - Design? Actual construction? - Can you post a layout with dimensions, please? - pics or hand drawn is fine - Can you post some pics of your current site, please? - Have you read the stickies? Here are a couple of links to some helpful websites with a lot of info for most of your questions. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm Okay, on to your questions with the "in a nutshell" answers. :wink:

Me and my friends produce techno-electro & electro-poprock (something like that:)). So there's a lot of low frequencies and some of the vocals that we combine.

You will need some bass traps and bradband absorber units. (see "wall unit" link above)

1. Lenght of the control room in your file is same like mine (4.0 m) but width of my room is 2.40 m. Does that make any trouble?

That depends. How tall are your ceilings? Can you post a floor layout with measurements, and location of doors, windows, obstructions, etc. please?

2. Do I need to change the angles of walls or bass traps or can I leave them like they are?

Angling parallel surfaces helps to reduce/redirect reflections. If you have any parallel surfaces in your room (most likely, yes?) you will need to either angle or absorb, depending on what & where they are.

2. I'm going to use mineral wool for insulation 5cm thick. Is that OK?

Most applications have been calling for at least 5.08cm - 7.62cm thick (2"-3") and a density of 2.5 pcf (pounds per square foot). If the thicker mineral wool is not available, you may be able to double your 5cm in layers.

3. On the wall behind console you have cloth right next to insulation but on the other walls there's a little empty air space (about 2cm at the sides and about 4cm in front of the console). Is that right?

eh?

4. Which material do I need for clothes? How about cotton? Which thicknes?

Depends on what's available in your area. Out here, alot of people use Guilford of Maine materials. Burlap & weed cloth are also alternatives. What's important is that the material is acoustically transparent. If it has a loose weave, and you can blow air through it, it's probably okay. Be aware of the fire rating of the material you do choose.

5. What is a difference among cloth and black cloth in your project?

More often than not, color.

6. Which material do I need for slots? And which thicknes?

see 2nd link above

And I have just one question about studio room. We are going to record only vocals in there. Do we need to derange a geometry of the studio room like in control room or we can leave it square, like it is now?

If you have parallel surfaces in the room, you will probably need to treat them in some manner. Obviously, the subject has much more depth than what can be answered in a few short questions, and there are usually differing approaches to any given situation. If, by the way, you are still in the design phase of your project, perhaps you may want to post your questions there, and then when you're ready to build, return to this forum. Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

First of all, I wanna thank you, kendale, for a such quick answer. Second, sorrry on my bad English. I have never study English in school: Russian was my second language :( English I know only becouse of movies and music :) I made a mistake last time: I don't know why, but skp file named "small studio" (which I colected from someone's post in this forum) would't be attached to my post. But nevermind, now I will try to attach some pictures and drawings (don't lough, I have never study painting neither :) First picture (Room 4x4) shows my friend's disadvantage on this subject. Now I'm trying to work this out. Somehow... As you can see, control room is 3.7m long and only 2.4m wide. Heihgt is also 2.4m. Second picture is snapshot from early mentioned skp file (which is Jonh's). I plan to treat my room exactly like this room. What do you think, is it a problem becouse of small width of my room? Do I need to change the angles of bass traps and absorbers behind listener's postion? Picture 1 again: My bass traps are made different then John's, I saw this design from John Shryon's post that I laked very much. My Tannoys are on the standings, not in the walls like John's. In front of them I have same absorbers like behind. Right bass trap isn't possible to build becouse of the door of toilet. I'm thinking to put some angled heavy plush or velvet curtains; same at the door of the control room... Behind them I also have an insulation. Is that a good idea or not? I have questions about construction of absorbers and slot resonators. I intend to make wooden frame (5cmx8cmx3m) 20mm distant from the walls. Then I want to put mineral wool inside and bind it with some wire or chord (for fishing). Is that OK? Something gives me a lot of trouble to understand: Do I need empty air space beetwen mineral wool and cloth and is that so - how much? In John's small studio project (picture 2) there was a different measures of that empty air space. Wall in front of the console have 46mm, walls with resonators have 25mm, wall behind console have no empty air space at all (?!) Is that a bag in the program or is that a right thing to do? What kind is a burlap & weed material? Which thicknes? For resonators, can I use 3mm plywood with 3mm holes in it, next one to each other? Look at that big mark of question on picture 1. I really don't now what to do with it! I tryed to solve this problem with left resonator wall next to left speaker and some curtains. Can I do it like this? Notice: Back side of resonator wall is made from 3mm thick plywood with no holes in it. Other walls have nothing on their back sides; only wires or chords. And finally, I have no clue how to treat a ceiling. I intend to pile some 5cm foam boards in different levels (overthere 3 pieces, overhere two and somewhere one or non). Is that a good idea? Or I'm just tripin' :) Uuuuffffff, this is a pretty much and it was hard to do it, belive me, this is my very first time in life to write a letter this long in English. In English at all, actually... Ouh, and don't forget that height of a room is 2.4m and that vocal booth is square (only vocals). kendale, I hope that this is not so complicated how it seems to me in this moment. Please, do what you can. I'll be expecting your replay as soon as possible. Alredy tommorow, I'm going to have my Tannoys and Rode NT1A in my possetion! I ordered them today and I had a very big fortune that one store here in Serbia had them in stock. Thank's in advance... :)

Taken from poor camera on K700i :)

Aloha, Any chance you could resize your pics down to about 700 pixels wide, please? This will eliminate having to scroll back and forth to read the posts. It's also part of the forum guidelines. (You may want to crop off the extra margins first.) Thanks! :wink: Aloha 8)

Ouh, very sorry for making trouble! :oops: I see now - it was very late last night... Problem is in pic "snapshot of John's..." 1280x1024 pixels. But I don't know how to make it right. I mean, I know how to do it on my machine but how can I replace an existing one with a right one? Thank's for notice...

Aloha Tatko, Hey, no worries. Just click the edit button on that post and upload your resized pics. 700 pixels wide works real nice. Both your handrawn ones look like they're a little large as well, and could use some cropping. After you've uploaded the resized pic, be sure to delete the old ones. Thanks! :wink: When we can read the posts, you'll probably get more responses. Aloha 8)

I hope that everything is OK now... :)

Aloha, Well done. :D Aloha 8)

Aloha Tatko,

Sorry on my bad English

The english language (and my use of it) sometimes has a way falling short of communicating the same thing to different people. You have a lot of good questions to cover, and hopefully we'll get them all answered in a way that makes sense to you, and is what I meant to say. Here are a couple of questions for you: Is this studio/project yours or your friends, and are you/he/they open to some suggestions that may require some rearranging and possibly some construction? I've got a few ideas for you, but before I go and draw them out, it may be better to see if it's a possiblity. Aloha 8)

Clever toughts :) I'm doing this with only one friend and his name is Nemus. This suppose to be a studio for personal usage not for commercial use. We can't move toilet nor vocal booth - everything else is possible to change. We have nothing built yet so every suggestion is welcome :) :D

Aloha,

We can't move toilet nor vocal booth - everything else is possible to change. We have nothing built yet so every suggestion is welcome

Cool. 8)

Look at that big mark of question on picture 1. I really don't now what to do with it!

Okay, here's the first of several thoughts - Is it possible to extend your vocal booth, as currently it's basically a square (which acoustically you want to avoid) and it's really tight. - This will address your question mark - It gives your vocalist/s some room to breathe - It gives you the room you need to treat the room acoustically - toilet and vocal booth remains in place - it gives your control room a little more symmetry By the way, are sliding glass doors available in your area and perhaps within your budget? After this, we'll take a look at your control room area. :wink: Aloha 8)

I'm a smoker, what can I do? :) Just joking :) I'm ready to reconstruct vocal booth if I must do it. My budget? To small my kendale, to small... I run a little store, I sell drills and such kind machines to construction workers but bussines going bad: we (Serbian traders) don't have unique market price... Everyone for themselfs, that's why we are here where we are... :oops: So, sliding glass doors are not an option :cry: but I'm going to work something out :wink: Please, continue! You are very studious, I enjoy to talk with you on this subject. You know, before this conversation, I read a bunch of science documents about all of this (SAE and Salford universities, Odeon program and such things) and I almost wanted (for about one day :) ) to go, in my 28. year of age, to study about acoustics. Don't be afraid, that phaze is gone... :D Ouh, how can we open a second page, this is to long already? :D

I must go to sleep, I'm so tired... Time zone difference between Hawaii and Serbia is +11... And now is almost a morning... :shock:

Aloha Tatko, Hey, I had an idea on your acoustic treatments. Have you considered John's wall units, and are these materials available in your area? http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm Some of the benefits of these units in your situation are: - movable (especially since one will need to sit in front of the toilet - can be mounted on wheels for ease of positioning - temporary in the event of your moving It must be said that these units will not do anything for any isolation (soundproofing) requirements you may have, but they do a great job as acoustical treatments when positoned properly. Here's a pic of them in a home studio setting. Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

You have a really nice place there :wink: I saw whole proces of building your control room and I must say that looks professional. Congrats :D But I'm afraid that I don't have that much money and especially - time. I've already been to that link you gave me and I decided to cover whole room and to make bass traps like John Shryon did. Kendale, I do not need a perfect control room like your's :D I just want to treat it the best I can in this kind of situation (money, time etc). Please, can you try to give me at least a half solution for my trouble? Just concentrate yourself on my questions from my second post in this topic. Read them very carefully and try to help me to save some time. I woul'd be very appreciative :)

Aloha Tatko, My apologies, as I was not trying to waste your time, but was trying to consider some of the possibilities of a challenging treatment suggestion due to the size of the spaces.

First picture (Room 4x4) shows my friend's disadvantage on this subject. Now I'm trying to work this out. Somehow... As you can see, control room is 3.7m long and only 2.4m wide. Heihgt is also 2.4m.

For a small room, it's better to go with a "deader" sound across the vocal freq. range.

What do you think, is it a problem becouse of small width of my room? Do I need to change the angles of bass traps and absorbers behind listener's postion?

Because you don't want rear reflections to interfere it is better to start with a longer front to back dimension than the side to side dimension. - John Sayers - SAE website

Right bass trap isn't possible to build becouse of the door of toilet. I'm thinking to put some angled heavy plush or velvet curtains; same at the door of the control room... Behind them I also have an insulation. Is that a good idea or not?

Other than hiding the toilet and absorbing some of the mid hi - hi freqs., and depending on how much insulation you use, they will have some to little effect on your bass absorption.

I have questions about construction of absorbers and slot resonators. I intend to make wooden frame (5cmx8cmx3m) 20mm distant from the walls. Then I want to put mineral wool inside and bind it with some wire or chord (for fishing). Is that OK?

That will work fine.

Something gives me a lot of trouble to understand: Do I need empty air space beetwen mineral wool and cloth and is that so - how much?

No.

In John's small studio project (picture 2) there was a different measures of that empty air space. Wall in front of the console have 46mm, walls with resonators have 25mm, wall behind console have no empty air space at all (?!) Is that a bag in the program or is that a right thing to do?

Not sure what area in the pic you're refering to.

What kind is a burlap & weed material? Which thicknes?

Out here, burlap is often used as bags for potatoes. It is a coarse, loose weave material that is very strong.

For resonators, can I use 3mm plywood with 3mm holes in it, next one to each other?

Not sure I understand that. There is a formula for slat spacing around here somwhere. Perhaps a search would be helpful.

Look at that big mark of question on picture 1. I really don't now what to do with it!

If its viable/afforable for you, you could extend your vocal booth.

I tryed to solve this problem with left resonator wall next to left speaker and some curtains. Can I do it like this? Notice: Back side of resonator wall is made from 3mm thick plywood with no holes in it. Other walls have nothing on their back sides; only wires or chords.

Left/right room symmetry (at least within a foot or two of ear height) is important for good stereo imaging.

And finally, I have no clue how to treat a ceiling. I intend to pile some 5cm foam boards in different levels (overthere 3 pieces, overhere two and somewhere one or non). Is that a good idea? Or I'm just tripin' Smile

See attached Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

Kendale, belive me - it helps :) Thank you for all advices and time spent on me. If you ever need something from me please be free and contact me - my e-mail address is public. I woul'd be very happy to help... Best wishes from Tatko