Pls. help with my kid's 'studio'

Hi ALL, I've been lurking for about 2 weeks now, and just signed up yesterday. I tried to read the stickies, but the amount of info is overwhelming, so I decided to ask... Here's the basement room that we gave to our 20-year-old for his studio (the North wall was added just a couple of months ago): All walls are insulated (including the North wall), except for the East one that is actually a closet. Here are the actual pictures of West, North, East, South, and SE (tiny 45degree one) walls: - Yeah, I made those ghetto monitor stands ;) My son is an intermediate DJ, a good drummer, but is a beginner when it comes to mixing. As he puts it, "the sound sucks". That does not give me a whole lot of ideas on what needs to be improved, although I do understand that, without any acoustic treatment, the room does sound muddy. I only care about the sound quality at his mixing position. I am willing to spend $400-$500 and my spare time to make him happy, so I need an advise on what would be the most crucial acoustic treatment this room should have. There's also a 'wife factor' to consider: I'll be able to place bass traps in the corners, maybe hang something above the mix table, but I suspect nailing 703s or 705s directly to the walls will not be allowed. :( I cannot answer about the loudness of his mixes, I have yet to get the SPL meter, sorry. TIA, amazing forum, guys!

ardo wrote:

I need an advise on what would be the most crucial acoustic treatment this room should have.

This is a deep subject, and a complete answer requires far more than will fit into a single reply here. So here's the short version. All rooms need: * Broadband (not tuned) bass traps straddling as many corners as you can manage, including the wall-ceiling corners. * Mid/high frequency absorption at the first reflection points on the side walls and ceiling. * Some additional amount of mid/high absorption and/or diffusion on any large areas of bare parallel surfaces, such as opposing walls or the ceiling if the floor is reflective. For the complete story see my Acoustics FAQ. You may find it a little easier to digest than all of the stickies, though it's still not a five minute read. :) --Ethan

Thanks, Ethan! Not expecting a 5-minute fix, I've been reading your http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html and http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html for the past 2 days, actually. And admiring (not coveting, just admiring) your home studio. Guess what, my brain hurts, and it still wasn't enough to make an intelligent guess, so I decided to ask. Thanks for your help, I'll start searching for a local 705/703 supplier, to "build a better bass trap" ;) - Roman.

Ardo, It might be easier to find Roxul's AFBs rather that 703.

Thanks, I was just looking at http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm, comparing Roxul's 4" AFB & RHT 40, isn't RHT 40 better, or are you suggesting AFB because of price? I haven't checked any prices yet. Never mind, looks like RHT 40 is for high-temp. applications, so it must cost more...

Finally, I've got time to start this project. Last week, I received 8 bales (sp?) of Roxul RHT40, 4" thick, enough to make 32 4'X2' traps. I'm making frames out of corner bead. I only made 5 traps so far, still to be covered with landscape fabric. I've got a few questions, though: 1. Since the room is not perfectly rectangular (see the last picture of South-West corner in my original post), what would be the best way to treat the South wall? I was thinking of making a moveable trap by stacking three 4X2 traps vertically, i.e. making a 'gobo-like' thingy 4ft wide by 6ft tall, and this way extending the South wall, blocking out the drum set. 2. I've got sliding closet doors at the back wall, with no way of treating them. Again, I want to make two more gobos & place them about 6-8ft in front of the closet. If I place them this way, do I calculate the mixing position as 38% of the length of the whole room, or just 38% of the distance from the front (West) wall to the gobos? TIA - ardo.

ardo wrote:

1. Since the room is not perfectly rectangular (see the last picture of South-West corner in my original post), what would be the best way to treat the South wall? I was thinking of making a moveable trap by stacking three 4X2 traps vertically, i.e. making a 'gobo-like' thingy 4ft wide by 6ft tall, and this way extending the South wall, blocking out the drum set.

maybe put them each on a stand vertically so they're about 2' off the ground and put them side by side. then you'd have a wall 6' high and 6' wide. you can leave 6" between them and leave them off the wall by about a foot or so.

ardo wrote:

2. I've got sliding closet doors at the back wall, with no way of treating them. Again, I want to make two more gobos & place them about 6-8ft in front of the closet. If I place them this way, do I calculate the mixing position as 38% of the length of the whole room, or just 38% of the distance from the front (West) wall to the gobos?.

same as number 1 - this way you can reposition for reflection points, etc. you also want to take one or two of these and hang them over the mix desk as "clouds". as far as position, about 38% from the front wall and counting the entire room. the absorbers don't really count much as boundaries... one thing to note on your desk position is the one angled wall and then opposite that is a flat wall. standing an absorber about 5-6 feet to either side of the mixer chair may help to create "symmetry" in the space. angle the absorber slightly so any sound that may be reflected is sent back from the mix position.

gullfo wrote:

maybe put them each on a stand vertically so they're about 2' off the ground and put them side by side. then you'd have a wall 6' high and 6' wide. you can leave 6" between them and leave them off the wall by about a foot or so.

Thanks, I haven't thought about standing them up vertically. I was going to mount 3 traps onto an Ikea clothes rack and have 2 or 3 of those racks positioned around the room. I do like your idea much better, but now I'll have to figure out how to make stands for individual traps.

gullfo wrote:

same as number 1 - this way you can reposition for reflection points, etc. you also want to take one or two of these and hang them over the mix desk as "clouds".

I was planning to make a cloud with 3 4X2' traps, would that be an overkill?

gullfo wrote:

one thing to note on your desk position is the one angled wall and then opposite that is a flat wall. standing an absorber about 5-6 feet to either side of the mixer chair may help to create "symmetry" in the space. angle the absorber slightly so any sound that may be reflected is sent back from the mix position.

I didn't get the part about angling the absorber, sorry... Thanks for your help, gullfo! I realize that all of this has probably been discussed a few times, but the amount of info available on this forum is simply overwhelming for a first-timer like me.

you can use heavy mic stands or tripod mic stands. you can go with 3 2x4 clouds. with the side absorbers, you can give them an angle front-to-back to just ensure any high frequency bounce off them goes behind you.

Tht's great! Thank you, Glenn!

OK, I finished the first five traps, and have another 5 ready to be covered with fabric: http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7123/img4748ro3.jpg I moved the workstation in accordance with the 38% rule (not sure how significant that is for an irregular-shaped room), and just 'scattered' the finished absorbers around the front of the room because I'm having a mental block as to their placement: http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4766/img4749ia1.jpg http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2827/img4750ta4.jpg http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3813/img4751eh0.jpg I was thinking of covering the windows (they are just a touch smaller than those 4'X2' traps). But then I wouldn't be able to cover the front ceiling corner above them. If I cover the ceiling corner the windows will become partially covered & will look ugly. Also, with the ductwork boxes, do I cover the ceiling/box corner or the box/wall corner, or both? I'm also re-thinking if I want to mount traps behind the workstation on stands, or somehow hang them from the ceiling, using a couple of parallel curtain rails? I think I'll need 6 to 8 traps in the back, hanging on two rails so that's about 60-80 LB per rail. Has anyone tried something similar? I really would like to be able to swing the back traps out of the way when they are not needed. I have enough stuff to make a total of 30 4'X2'X4" absorbers, and will make a few 2X2 squares and a couple of triangles - Ethan, thank you for Realtraps.com, I don't know what I would do without those great pictures & installation guides. Still, I cannot decide where to place those front & side absorbers... :oops: Also, I'm not sure if I can use those 4" thick panels for first reflection on side walls & the cloud. I believe a dead room is a good room, just not 100% sure about that. :) Many thanks. - Roman.

if the top of the traps are about 6' (so they're about 2' off the ground) you should be fine. you can hang them, in this case i would put 1 in each corner, 2 spaced along the front wall (no need to cover the windows) and 1 on each side at the first reflection points. 2 overhead as a cloud.

I finally completed the 'front part' of the project, and only used half of the insulation: Surely, I could do more, but I am REALLY tired now. :D The sound difference is AMAZING. The room is exceptionally quiet, the sound is very tight and 'precise' (does this make sense?), there is no more booming or mudyness. I wish I could say the same about the looks so that my wife would be pleased too. Oh well, as long as my son is happy, it is his room after all. I have a couple of extra panels in the South back corner: And the remaining bales make a huge super-superchunk in the North back corner: What I'm missing is treatment for the back wall, i.e. the closet: But, being tired and all, I'm looking for excuses. The listening position is 13ft away from the closet door. Would this be a good excuse to leave the back alone? As I said, I'm happy with the sound, but I'm no sound engineer. I would appreciate any comments & suggestions. - Roman.

just put a couple more 2" absorbers on the doors. otherwise looks pretty darn good!

Ah, the doors. That would make my wife really upset. I'll see what I can do. The real concern is, with 4" thick traps & a 4" gap, the trap will be banging against the sofa, and the door won't open fully. Thanks for your help!

hey man, that LOOKS very good. Nice job ye done.