A mess...

Well, love the forum, been reading it for a while, so time for my first post/question. It's a big one.... So here's the deal, I've been asking on several forums, but nobody can help me out. I have a single room about 20' x 9', I currently have everything in that room; drums, board, pc, guitars, etc. The main problem i face is that it is in the basement. So here's how it works. I have a cement floor, with acoustic tile ceilings (thicker than the ones you see in doctors offices, but similar), and walls that consist of thin fake wood (kind of like a board with a design on one side), usually used in "finished" basements. That "wood" goes over dry wall, and the walls are bowed a bit. Other than this i have the room partially carpeted (laid down a bit of old used carpet...) Now obviously, this is the worst recording room I can think of. The sound reflects in odd ways off the walls, and far to well. If I have the door open, the sound of the boiler can be heard like it was next to you in 4 different locations do to sound reflection... This is a horrible thing. heard is understandable, but like it was next to you is outrageous. When you clap in the room, you get that distinct cement reverb, much like a quick decaying ping. Everything I record in this room sounds very... well bad... airy, distant... well... just listen if you want. http://www.myspace.com/onthe410 Now my main issue, is I don't have thousands of dollars to put into building this into the pristine studios that john has been whipping up. Don't get me wrong, I pine for one of those like a kid on the day before Christmas. But, what can I do to make this an acceptable recording area. I don't have the money to float a hardwood floor, but what would laying down plywood do? Carpeting half the wall? Carpet the full floor? Egg foam? Will this kill the sound? I'm willing to do any do it yourself work. I just need to keep it cheap. Is there any hope for me?

CaptainTaco wrote:

what can I do to make this an acceptable recording area.

Start here: www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html This will answer most of your questions, and you're welcome to follow-up here with any others. --Ethan

Well that was a great article. I understand a lot more of sound treatment than before. However one thing still sits in the back of my mind. I understand that any reflective surface is desired as a floor. However, how reflective is cement? Is cement ok to have as a floor? or will it ruin my sound. Floors mentioned were hardwood, linoleum, etc. I've yet to see someone state cement was ok to have as a floor. As for other questions, they've changed after reading the article. I might make a new post for those.

I do have one more question. Should I cover my whole wall with 703? My room is very small. i was wrong with the dimensions before. The room size is 16x8x7. I was thinking of building a wall inbetween, but that's a whole other thread that'll we need attention. The way it's set is in the basement, where 3 walls are the foundation, (covered with fake wood, and no insulation. One wall faces the rest of the basement. So should i use the 703 on all the walls, and build slots over them? Or should I just make pannels and hope for the best?

Aloha and welcome to the forum, Cap'n!

I don't have the money to float a hardwood floor, but what would laying down plywood do? Carpeting half the wall? Carpet the full floor? Egg foam? Will this kill the sound? I'm willing to do any do it yourself work. I just need to keep it cheap. Is there any hope for me?

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

For an instrument to sound good you must hear a balance of its high and low frequencies. If your room is too dead in the high frequencies the instrument sounds lifeless and tubby, whereas if it's too live in the high frequencies the instrument sounds distant and has no presence. To balance a room you must have a true balance of the high frequencies and the low frequencies with the right amount of deadness to liveness.

DIY Wall Units - http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm

I understand that any reflective surface is desired as a floor. However, how reflective is cement? Is cement ok to have as a floor? or will it ruin my sound. Floors mentioned were hardwood, linoleum, etc. I've yet to see someone state cement was ok to have as a floor.

check out Eagan studios/update 4 about halfway down the page http://www.johnlsayers.com/Studio/Mainpage/MP-Egan.htm Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

CaptainTaco wrote:

I've yet to see someone state cement was ok to have as a floor.

Here you go: Cement is fine for a floor. :) > Should I cover my whole wall with 703? < No. > The room size is 16x8x7. I was thinking of building a wall inbetween < Don't do that. It's much better to have one room that sounds good than two rooms each too small to get a decent low end. --Ethan

Fair enough. Thanks. I was wrong yet again about the dimensions however. I finally bought a tape measure... 23x13... i guess I was a bit off.... Well, I never was one for estimates. Good to know about the cement floor. I believe I'm going to make some panels with rock wool considering the 703 is a bit more pricey. I want to basically make movable walls with them, so I can design whatever room I need for the circumstance, or just put them back (spread out amongst the room, bass traps back in the actual rooms corners, and spread the absorbs ion accordingly) I could move this topic, but I'll ask a quick question and hope i don't get yelled. I was going to build them by making a frame, around 6x4, and place the rock wool inside the frame, and fabric over one side. Then the other side I was going to make into a fake wall. Either putting a backing of "Soundboard" a board similar to drywall, but more sound absorbent, Or MDF wood. I would make them freestanding, very similar to Kendale's setup. This way I could move them in front of the drum set when mix down comes, and in front of the control panel when it's time to record. Would this work? and if so, what should I use, soundboard, or MDF. I'm assuming MDF would be heavy though. EDIT: Me and my artistic talent drew up some highly textured and detailed (photo realistic) images of what I'm looking to do. It really doesn't want to let me put a description on the image... so image 1 : This is basically what i'm going to try and do. This look decent? image 2 : Then I can just move the panels up for mixing. This way I don't have to move the drums out of the room, or move the console back. and yes... I realize I wrote poll... so I've been doing a lot of polls recently... and I'm not going back to fix it now! so... pole... ok? lol EDIT: Looking back I realize I didn't say something I've want to say since I started reading this forum... Aloha Kendale! and thanks for the input from all

'bout acoustics: Panel setup like in image 1 is the way to go. Remember the article Ethan gave you? It speaks of corners. There are more than 4 corners in one room, remember that. image 2; moving them panels for mixing? as in making the room smaller? Dunno, I'd go for good room acoustics (for the WHOLE room) so you don't have to move around during mixing. If you're worried about the drumkit making too much rumbling noise during mixdown, put a blanket or heavy curtain over the drums. It'll stop most resonating sounds coming from the drumskins and cymbals. There's no ISOLATION in moving panels around, as stated in the thread your running in the construction forum.

CapnTaco, what you are describing is very much what I do in my room. I built 6 gobos that are 2'x6' and 6 broadband absorbers that are 2'x8'. I arrange them around a drum kit in the corner of my basement for recording, and arrange them throughout the room for rehearsals where the sound is much more balanced than it once was. Part of the reason I wanted to do this (apart from my limited budget) is that flexibility is key. I needed to learn where my room needed treatment. Now I have a much better idea of what my room sounds like.

sounds good. Ro, thanks for the input, but I believe you missed part of my plan. The panels are going to be build more as walls than panels. Just movable. On the backing I wish to use either mdf, or soundboard (a sound resistant drywall). This way when I move them forward, it doesn't just change the location of absorbers, but in a way, changes the location of walls.

CaptainTaco wrote:

sounds good. Ro, thanks for the input, but I believe you missed part of my plan. The panels are going to be build more as walls than panels. Just movable. On the backing I wish to use either mdf, or soundboard (a sound resistant drywall). This way when I move them forward, it doesn't just change the location of absorbers, but in a way, changes the location of walls.

Change walls (adjusting room size) WILL change acoustics! Portable walls will NOT give you good isolation. Forget soundboard, just MASS (MDF/Drywall) What's your goal with those portable walls? (you've got a thread in construction about that, so let's stick to acoustics here)

Well you've got me a bit confused here. Drywall has less mass than soundboard from what I've read. My goals are simple, my goals are not to provide a ton of isolation between the movable walls. I plan on making the panels moderate walls so that they "can" change the shape and therefor acoustics of the room. I don't have the luxury of building a new room, so I have to work with what I have. The panels are meant to act as absorbers and as walls. Really I'm asking if the panels I make will work, when being made out of rock wool, a frame of wood, and a backing of soundboard (a denser version of drywall)- which therefor has more mass. Or should I give up and go the mdf route.

I think part of the confusion is the term, "sound board" - this has, up until recently, been used to describe a product called Celotex or similar products, which are MUCH lighter than drywall. The product you're describing sounds like one of the newer "super drywall" products spawned from the increasing requirements for better sound isolation between apartments, etc... You're correct that you can change the acoustics/modal responses in your room by using these "porta-walls" - anything that provides a hard surface will have a corresponding mode set within the room. It's also handy that, depending on what you're after, you could place either the hard OR soft side toward your space and affect the acoustics in yet another way besides effectively changing the room size. As long as you realize (and it sounds like you do) that these won't give enough isolation to amount to much, I think you have a good plan to optimize your space acoustically... Steve

Thank you for your help, I will post when I begin construction.