Design Help Request for Win Win Pictures, Toronto, ON

Howdy folks - after a few months of reading I'm hoping I've done enough homework to get some help with my plans for my new space! I've bought Rod's book, checked the FAQ's, and tried to do some research. Any design assistance would be appreciated. The Plan: I'm going to build a studio in an existing video post production facility in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The studio will be in commercial leased space. I'd like a control room and a live room. I'd like to be able to record drums without driving everyone else crazy or making the upstairs tenants call the police and/or the landlord. The style of music is almost always alt.country, roots rock, or folk. The Budget: $10,000 or so - we're on a low budget - most clients are indie filmmakers or musicians with some broadcast TV thrown into the mix from time to time. Some of my partners in the project have lots of construction experience framing walls etc., so they'll be helping / doing most of that. We've found a consultant locally to help us with permit issues, HVAC, and the fire sprinklers. The Existing Space: I've attached a sketchup screen print, sketchup file, scans of the floor plan, and some photos of the existing space. We have the lower floor of a commercial building. The ceiling is made of 2"x11" wood joists that are 16" on centre covered with 5/8" drywall. The walls are 2"x4" metal studs covered by 5/8" drywall. The walls are built inside the original stone foundation. There's an interesting concrete room built into the northwest corner of the space. The celings are 9' 2 1/4" high. The floor is concrete. We're just going to paint it, unless someone convinces me that it's a problem acoustically. There is a closet on the east side of the room (left side of the sketchup drawing / floor plan) that will be removed, but on the other side of it is an air conditioning unit that I can't move. There is a video editing suite bordering the southeast corner of the room (lower left) that can't be moved. The entrance to that suite can't be blocked, so there will have to be a hallway along the south side of the studio I build. There is a fire exit on the west side of the drawings that can't be moved. The main entrance is on the other side of the building, as is the lobby, bathrooms, etc. Sketchup file: The sketchup file is attached - it's called "winwinexisting.skp" I've decided one of the closets is coming out, so I deleted that from the sketchup drawing. Photos: Here are some photos of what I have to work with.

Here are some more pictures:

and a few more...

Aloha and welcome to the forum, Dave :D Any chance you could post your sketchup file of the available space, please? Thanks! :wink: Looking forward to your build. Aloha 8)

Thanks again, Kendale. I updated the sketchup file and attached it to the first message.

I think I figured out where I'd like the control room to go. Here's a jpg and skp of it. I haven't drawn in the double walls etc. Any comments?

Aloha Dave, That's an interesting approach. John has used the corner design in several of his drawings with great success.

I'd like to be able to record drums without driving everyone else crazy or making the upstairs tenants call the police and/or the landlord.

One thought is that if you were to put the live/drum room back in the corner (where your control room is :shock:, you would have a bit more iso from the other tenants. How/what your ceiling is treated will have to be factored in as well. Aloha 8)

Thanks Kendale - the SAE site is where I scooped the corner room design from. I tried the control room in other spots, but that darn support post in the middle of the room gets in the way or I have to shrink the control room a bit. Since I spend most of my time in the control room, I don't wanna do that! :D I haven't figured out what to do with the existing walls that are surrounded by stone foundation. I'd like to just add two more layers of drywall to them, but then I'd have a sound transmission problem where the existing walls join the ceiling, right? The plan for the ceiling is to take down the existing drywall, put drywall on the bottom of the existing deck, fill with insulation, then attach two or three layers of drywall to RC2 channel like in the attached diagram.

How about this? I added an annoying support beam that's in the room so I could remember to position the walls around it.

Not sure if I should clean up the thread as I go - the last design had too much angle in the walls - they were each 12 degrees for a total of 24 degrees instead of 6 degrees each for a total of 12. Oops. I think I'm getting there. I still have to draw a few more walls, bass traps, soffits, etc. and put the sliding glass door into the control room sketch to the left of the mix position so I can see out, but how's the general concept look? Any feedback? The thread re: wall angle is here http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=782&highlight=minimum+wall+splay for anyone following along. I've attached the skp file as well - it's called "winwinbuild3.zip".

Aloha Dave, Perhaps something like this? Aloha 8)

Thanks Kendale! Is that a standard template that you have or did you draw it specifically for the space I'm working with? The reason I'm wondering is the sliding door on the North side. Is there one on the South side as well? You didn't draw a double wall, but I'm guessing I should still be building one?

Aloha Dave,

Is that a standard template that you have or did you draw it specifically for the space I'm working with?

This was a drawing that I had been working on to improve my Sketchup skills. It is based on John's comment on the SAE website - http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

I suggest that a control room ideally should be at least 6m x 5m with a minimum ceiling height of 2.4m (19.68480’ x 16.40400’ x 7.87292’). John Sayers, SAE Manual This size room means a good sized working area with space for the musos, friends and hangers on. Also because you don't want rear reflections to interfere it is better to start with a longer front to back dimension than the side to side dimension: i.e. 6m x 5m.

The reason I'm wondering is the sliding door on the North side. Is there one on the South side as well?

Actually, yes. But you could easily take either/both of them out and put in a standard door on the south flat wall.

I like that only part of the room is angled - more space that way.

This was something I noticed John incorporates in his layouts.

You didn't draw a double wall, but I'm guessing I should still be building one?

The drawing wasn't quite done when I posted it, but I thought I'd offer it for your consideration, and yes, you would want to have a double wall for the front & angled portions of your control room. The rear portion would already have a double wall (a third leaf, if you include your exterior stone wall. Normally you would try to avoid having a third leaf when possible.) Let me make the adjustments you mentioned and then I'll post the skp. file. Aloha 8)

Thanks again - I've been considering taking down the inside wall on the North & West side of my space to avoid the third leaf. But, on the other hand, the only thing on the other side of that wall is dirt since I'm below grade so does it matter? Keeping the sound isolated from the main floor tenants is a concern, though. Anyway, what do you think?

Aloha Dave, You may be right since that section is below grade, but John, Steve or Rod would have more knowlege in that area. Speaking of which, have you read Rod's book? http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/1598630342 ... pe_snp_342

Keeping the sound isolated from the main floor tenants is a concern, though.

In reference to your ceiling construction pic, could you describe what you have there, please? How big are the floor joists, and how far of a span? Is that hardwood flooring directly on top of the joists? There are several threads touching on the topics of span loads and beefing up ceilings. Perhaps a search on them would be helpful. Aloha 8)

I bought Rod's book, and it's been great, but I always seem to have questions... :( The ceiling joists are 11" x 2". They are 16" on centre. The span is approx 13'.

Aloha Dave, Here's a couple of revised renderings and the skp file. Hope this helps, Aloha 8)