Tight Project Studio 9' x 14' Finished Design Suggestion

HI! Well, here is my problem, I'm about to build a little studio in a very tight loft space. I designed two designs, but dont know which one to choose. Which one is ascoustically better. There is an isolated pipe in the upper right corner of the room which gives me some symetrical issues, that's why I tried to fix it by doing a fake one the the opposite side. And putting some corner bass traps around it. I dont really mind about the size of the booth and the mini lounge. The control room is my main problem. I have two 2000ft storage space besides me, filled with boxes, so no anoying neigbourg, but I have a rehersal room on top of me separated by a 1ft thick concrete ceiling. Here is the control room size: Lenght = 14 ft Width = 9 ft Height = 10 ft Yes it is small. But still, which one will be better? (Best Ctrl. Room) A (left): The one with the big desk (8ft wide) larger than long. B (Right): The one with the small desk (approx. 6ft wide) longer than large. Or any other suggestion way better than those? P-S: Dont mind about the grid, it is not properly displayed and scaled, this Visio viewer kinda suck.

I'd go with the right version as it's beter to have the speakers fire down the long room rather than the short as in the left version. the window on the rear of the control room will give you a problem as it will reflect the sound right back at you. Have you considered inverting the layout so you enter the control room from the doorway and the window then becomes part of the lounge area?? cheers john

John Sayers wrote:

I'd go with the right version as it's beter to have the speakers fire down the long room rather than the short as in the left version. the window on the rear of the control room will give you a problem as it will reflect the sound right back at you. Have you considered inverting the layout so you enter the control room from the doorway and the window then becomes part of the lounge area?? cheers john

Well, yes I thaught about it, the problem is that, there will be too much noise from the hallway, plus it is odd shaped. I knew the B setting was better, the problem is that I liked the A setup a lot because it could allow me to buy a nice Argosy desk (almost 8ft wide), which the B setup dont because its too narrow... :( But what will be the difference in sound in the two layout?

Aloha,

Well, yes I thaught about it, the problem is that, there will be too much noise from the hallway, plus it is odd shaped.

Odd shaped? :shock: How so? :wink:

I knew the B setting was better, the problem is that I liked the A setup a lot because it could allow me to buy a nice Argosy desk (almost 8ft wide), which the B setup dont because its too narrow

Sad indeed. Argosy does make some great looking and functioning consoles. Which console were you considering? Ultimately, it'll come down to which do you prefer: a room with nice furniture vs a room that sounds good? Hmmm...

But what will be the difference in sound in the two layout?

All things considered, Plan A would have more reflections coming off the back wall into the mix position than Plan B, given the shorter distance. The room modes would also be different, and may come into play when setting up your mix position. Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

Aloha,

I'm about to build a little studio in a very tight loft space.

A couple more questions come to mind, being that it is a loft: - What's your ceiling like? - Are there any irregularities in the walls: e.g. windows, etc. - Any pics? Aloha 8)

I planned to buy the sexy 15k-803 Desk which is almost 8ft wide and 4ft deep. And yes in the A setup I might have reflection from the back wall, but what if I put some steady 3" fo 4" foam and deflectors in front of me and behind, it should be ok? Good sound or good look? lol :roll: Damn, what a dilemma, having a good sound and a Raxxess desk is not really attractive...But I mean...both setup A and B should sound good with proper treatment right? Small control room are usually easier to deal with than the 30ft wide one lol

kendale wrote:

Aloha,

I'm about to build a little studio in a very tight loft space.

A couple more questions come to mind, being that it is a loft: - What's your ceiling like? - Are there any irregularities in the walls: e.g. windows, etc. - Any pics? Aloha 8)

My ceiling is all flat concrete of about 11ft high. I have a floting ceiling at 9ft with nasty buzzing neons that I'll remove next week. But we will remove it and create a "v" ceiling, a diamond cut or a wavy one maybe. All the walls are flat, expect the back one which as a window of 7ft wide, and 2ft high. No I dont have any pic yet, ill do it tomorrow :wink:

Aloha,

I planned to buy the sexy 15k-803 Desk which is almost 8ft wide and 4ft deep.

Very nice, indeed! :wink: With careful planning you may still be able to squeeze that puppy in, tight fit as it may be. I've got about 8" from the edges of my console to the side absorbers. If you care to check it out - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sc&start=0

what if I put some steady 3" fo 4" foam and deflectors in front of me and behind, it should be ok?

From the SAE website - http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

For an instrument to sound good you must hear a balance of its high and low frequencies. If your room is too dead in the high frequencies the instrument sounds lifeless and tubby, whereas if it's too live in the high frequencies the instrument sounds distant and has no presence. To balance a room you must have a true balance of the high frequencies and the low frequencies with the right amount of deadness to liveness.

Most foam applications tend to absorb the high to upper mid freqs, which can lead to an unbalanced sound. Here's a few plans for absorber units and principles generally used throughout this forum: http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm Deflectors/diffusion at the rear, especially in close quarters tend to cause distortions in perceived audio signals, so would probably not be beneficial.

having a good sound and a Raxxess desk is not really attractive

No offense to Raxxess, but...I would agree.

both setup A and B should sound good with proper treatment right?

If you've got a very large budget to throw at treating your room, you might be able to wrestle out a workable environment. Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, why not use proven princilples and trust in John's advice? (Whom by the way, has designed and built more studios than you and I both ever will in our lifetime.) Seems much more effective in time, talent and resources.

Small control room are usually easier to deal with than the 30ft wide one

Again from the SAE site -

So what size should a control room be? These days people are building bigger and bigger control rooms because so much happens in the control room now. Often the bass player and keyboard player actually sit in the control room. I often have the vocalist singing in the control room while the bed tracks go down, so a good size control room is a good idea. So many people think that you need a big studio and end up putting a poky little room at the end and call it a control room. I suggest that a control room ideally should be at least 6m x 5m with a minimum ceiling height of 2.4m. This size room means a good sized working area with space for the musos, friends and hangers on. Also because you don't want rear reflections to interfere it is better to start with a longer front to back dimension than the side to side dimension. i.e. 6m x 5m.

My ceiling is all flat concrete of about 11ft high.

You are fortunate my friend, to have that much headroom, it's much more than most.

I have a floting ceiling at 9ft with nasty buzzing neons that I'll remove next week.

Excellent decision!

But we will remove it and create a "v" ceiling, a diamond cut or a wavy one maybe.

Perhaps a search on "Clouds" would help shed some light on ceiling treatments, yes?

All the walls are flat, expect the back one which as a window of 7ft wide, and 2ft high.

What does your window look out upon?

No I dont have any pic yet, ill do it tomorrow

Thanks! Here's a few links full of good stuff - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7572 http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3231 http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2125 Happy reading and hope this helps, Aloha 8)

Wow, thanks a lot for these infos! :wink: The only way for me to fit the Argosy desk is with the A layout. If I try this on the B layout I will have to jump over the desk to sit loool. I have 9ft and its 8ft. :roll: And cant really invert the layout and but the desk against the back wall (with the window) because there will be no space for the monitors because of the pipes...and no space at the back for a lover seat because of the door and the slots. :( AAaargh...! I wish I had 2 more ft wide. :evil:

Perhaps a search on "Clouds" would help shed some light on ceiling treatments, yes?

Hmm, ya, I saw your ceiling, it's very interesting. I like it. 8)

What does your window look out upon?

Well...a parking lot, with a low to average car flow. Depending on the hours and day. But I'm on the third floor at about 35ft high. I might supress the window maybe. I'd rather look at my desk than a parking lot while thinking. Or scream in the booth while depressed. Or play nintendo in the lounge... I will have to ask the lessor if I'm allowed to do this yet. But in the A layout, I could but only absorber of 1" to 2" rather than 3" to 4" in the front and back wall. And deflector in the sides...No? (yah, it's all about the desk again lol) :D

Wow, sorry for taking so long to reply but I had to go trough a lot this january. Well here are some update of the studio construction :-)

Here are some updates. Here is the patern we use for the walls: Gypse 5/8, sonopan, gypse 5/8, Stud and Ruxul, gypse 5/8, sonopan, gypse 5/8 The main wall from the booth to the lounge will use the same pattern but with the addition of resilient channel to add some low freq decoupling from the sound coming from the hallway and the lounge.

Well, once again, some update. I must say...Damn...construction aint an easy thing and its so expensive, expenses after expenses, it never ends lol. welcome to the world of having a studio :roll: .

Window construction. After all this funky shape design done, I will have to paint it, I'm still hesitating between bright or dark color. Bright might be better psychologicaly and for imagination thaugh 8) I thaught about a mix of Yellow, Orange & Bleu. Light yellow with light orange, and average blue. What you guys think?

Gypse 5/8, sonopan, gypse 5/8, Stud and Ruxul, gypse 5/8, sonopan, gypse 5/8

you are breaking a cardinal rule here check out this drawing cheers john

who would have guessed that moving the two gypsum boards to one side would provide so much more isolation. That's exciting.

John Sayers wrote:

Gypse 5/8, sonopan, gypse 5/8, Stud and Ruxul, gypse 5/8, sonopan, gypse 5/8

you are breaking a cardinal rule here check out this drawing cheers john

Wow...now its all screwed already and fixed theres nothing much I can do as I can see... Any alternative? What if I add a plasterboard (5/8 or 1/2) on each side?

Aloha Ntchi, Hey. Really sorry to hear about that. Take a deep breath and a short break. A couple of questions for you, if I may: - Was the whole room done this way? - Is the drywall already taped & mudded? If not, you might still have a chance to rectify some of it, if you can carefully unscrew the drywall sections and rearrange your order of layers, then rescrew the drywall sections back in. It's alot of work no doubt, but if you have the chance to do it before the tape & mud goes on, now's the time to fix it. Let us know, Aloha 8)

Yes its tapped and mudded already :| Damn, I've just learned a lesson the hard way as I can see :? I don't have the extra budget and time to redo it all. And yes the whole room is made like that. But those walls are not really STC 40, well they are, but I added 3/4" Sonopan sheets to it, doest that make them at least a bit more efficient? STC 50 maybe?

I understood your earlier description to mean that you had only two leaves of mass - can you post a basic sketch of where each layer and frame is placed? Pictures tell so much more than words, at least for me... Steve

knightfly wrote:

I understood your earlier description to mean that you had only two leaves of mass - can you post a basic sketch of where each layer and frame is placed? Pictures tell so much more than words, at least for me... Steve

There is a picture on the first page. Look at the window picture, you'll see how the layers are. There is 4 leaves of mass + Sonopan sheet + Ruxul in between the studs.

Should I build a sound proof box around my light pods? It seems like some sound might leek from there.

The studio is almost done! I get some pic soon!

There you go, some updates!

Some more! :o

window one 1/2" and one 3/8"