Walls, floors, doors ...

Hi all First of all a big thank you to everyone associated with this forum – it is outstanding. I‘ve learnt so much already. This is my first posting so am anticipating a few errors in my design work – but fingers crossed that I’m at least heading in the right direction. I have attached image files for all my queries - I think they are at the bottom of this post. I am about to undertake my first studio construction and have found the ideal property and am currently in negotiations with the landlord. The property is a free standing brick built workshop situated just off the A1 near Sandy, Bedfordshire, (UK) and is part of a farm complex. It has recently been rebuilt, rewired and had a new roof put on, so the shell is in good order. There are currently no internal walls to remove so it’s a good starting point! Also being on a farm with only a few barns and workshops surrounding it, some noise leakage would not be a problem (probably most likely to be through the roof). The total unit contains two workshops in an L shape - I am looking at taking the larger of the two units, which are separated by a single skin brick wall. My proposed layout is attached, with dimensions. I haven’t yet decided on the exact internal shape of the main studio, but doubt that it will end up being a rectangle. The layout is only shown as a guide really. (layout.jpg) I have three main queries – walls, floors and doors. Walls - I’d like some advise on which of these wall constructions is the better way to go, where I have a brick wall to attach to. My first idea (corner section v1.jpg) has batons attached to the brick wall via neoprene, with 75mm rockwool between studs, then an air gap, then another stud wall forming the internal wall of the room, with 75mm rockwool and 2 layers of 12.5mm plasterboard on the inner side. I don’t know whether this is a bit overkill considering my location? My second idea (corner section v2.jpg) is to only have studs via neoprene, rockwool between studs and a double layer of plasterboard. Where I am creating a ‘corridor’ (wall section.jpg) my proposal is to have the stud wall corridor-side with single sheet plasterboard and 75mm rockwool, then an air gap, then another stud wall with 75mm rockwool and two layers of plasterboard to form the internal wall of the room. I am hoping this will be enough to isolate the room sound from the corridor. The main studio and control room will have totally independent internal walls with at least 8inch air gap between rooms. Right my second main area is floors – or mainly the order of construction. Should I build the walls first then the floor (as in floor section v1.jpg) or build the floor first then build the walls on top of the floor sub-structure (as in floor section v2.jpg) using neoprene pads to isolate the wall from the floor. On many of the studio construction photos that are on here, I’ve seen it apparently done both ways – does it depend on the structure on which you are building? I’m trying to keep my total construction budget under £10k, but I have already worked out that if I created two concentric stud walls inside the brick shell for each room then I’d be looking at £5k and that’s before the floors go down or the doors go in! I do wonder whether that is overkill. On that note – I have been looking at acoustic door sets and they are around £1000 +vat per set (44db) and I’m going to need 6!!! … surely there is a cheaper way to do this? Well I think that’s all for now folks – I hope this isn’t too much of a howler. Any advise would be VERY welcome. Thanks again all – keep up the good work. Am loving this site.

Regarding the floor design... Don't couple the internal stud frame to the external brick with neoprene or anything else. You need a decent airgap instead. You don't want to couple the walls to the existing floor. The most common approach I have seen to wall building, is to build the floating raft for the floor first on a series of rubber pads and then the wall studs on top of that. Therefore, if there is more than one room(s), each is isolated from the existing structure and from each other. These concepts are focused on vibration isolating & soundproofing a new room. The effect of these procedures on the acoustics is that your new, suspended, airtight space has nowhere for the trapped audio energy to go and bass trapping, side diffusers, ceiling treatment etc is inevitable. Plan for this now and allocate space in your space to iron out the freaky freqs that will come to your party. :D

Thanks Andy So - just to clarify - I should go with my second version diagram, but leave an air gap between the vertical studs and brick wall. I did wonder whether that might be teh case before I sent the original post - but its good to have it confirmed. Many thanks Andy Cheers Dave

Musicianista wrote:

You don't want to couple the walls to the existing floor. The most common approach I have seen to wall building, is to build the floating raft for the floor first on a series of rubber pads and then the wall studs on top of that.

Yes, that's a common approach. I also question (and I believe rightfully so) the wisdom of that approach. How carefully was such a floating room engineered? What kind of rubber pads were used? What was their durometer specs? How much were they loaded? Were they underloaded or overloaded or "Goldilocks" just right, with 10-15% compression that will yield long life and ensure its "springiness" that provides for true isolation? Is the subfloor slab-on-grade? Did the city/county building department approve of the use of the product? Is it in a seismic or hurricane zone? (If so, pretty much forget it!) Was the floating room built on an upper floor, where isolation from the downstairs occupant was critical? If so, was a structural engineer consulted to ensure that the thousands of pounds of building materials would not cause a catastrophic collapse? And if not, why float at all? Is there concern about flanking through the floor to adjacent spaces? Are the walls and ceiling built beefy enough to exceed the flanking limitations of the room? And were the results really better than not floating? How does one know? Were two identical spaces built, one floating and one not, and each one tested to compare the results? Is it possible that the floated room actually performed worse than if the room hadn't baeen floated? (This is quite possible! Floated floors can be boomy!) Properly engineering a floating room is difficult and expensive... I venture to guess most people get it wrong. Rod discusses this to some extent in his book. Rod is a pro who knows how to properly float a floor/room... And he thinks they're overrated in most cases. Study more of the many threads here about floated floors/rooms. I've discussed it at length many times, including my own experience trying to design and engineer a floating floor that my city rejected (and rightfully so). Don't just blindly assume you have to float a floor/room.

cre8iveblue wrote:

I should go with my second version diagram, but leave an air gap between the vertical studs and brick wall.

On that point, agreed. 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Oh, I also saw U-boats indicated in your drawing. Do a search for term "U-boats" from author "sharward" to see what I've had to say about them... :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

Dave, I couldn't help thinking "has he READ this forum?". There's been so much threads about floating floors (esp on concrete!), building walls and what not. Seriously, did you check them stickies? If so, read'm again. Much of your questions have been answered. good luck with the exploration of the best homestudio resource on the net! ro

Many thanks Sharward! Have definitely got lots more research and testing to do before I finish my design, and point very much taken re: floors. Like I say - very much a newby at this so apologies if the first post was somewhat naive. Followed some other threads to Paul Woodlocks monster thread - loads of advise there, and have got hold of Rods book too. Will keep you posted of my progress! Cheers Dave

Hello, (not sure of your name!). I am not sure if you are still designing your studio, but if you are, it might be an idea to pool ideas, as I think we are looking at essentially the same problems. My post is at :- www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8229 Louis. [removed]