Fastening Wall Frames to concrete Question

We have decided to NOT float a floor - from what we now understand is most are built and designed incorrectly - ending up in more problems than if the floor was not floated at all. + We believe after consultation with John have no real NEED for a floating floor. Cool :) Quick outline - we are planning on bolting the timber wall frames directly to the garage concrete floor (maybe through vapour barrier). The garage floor was originally constructed with reinforcement and vapour barrier. The builders did a fairly good job. So it does not leak or get damp to any noticeable degree. Drainage around is excellent. We have lived here for over 10 years so we can attest to that. I was planning to lay a plastic vapour barrier above concrete as well just in any case. I also plan on using laminate and the rubber matting that is recommended to use with it - directly on concrete. The floor of CR and ISO will be seperate (as will ceilings and walls) Rod's book mentions transference via concrete floor is less than we get with walls anyway. (Well from the VERY brief floor section this is what I interpret) - no offense Rod - great book - which brings me here ;) So here are the 2 questions for today - 1. As we bolt our frames to the concrete floor - if we find minor inconsistencies in the concrete level can we simply fill these with silicone?? (I was thinking of pasting the underneath of each frame "plate" with acoustic rated silicone so any anomolies auto fill - might be painful/messy on vapour barrier) 2. Does anybody have experiences they can share with laminate and underlay directly on concrete in a studio? (has it fared well in respect to transmission loss between CR and ISO rooms?) Designs are here FYI Kangaroo St Studio http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6968 [url][/url]

You are wise to forego floating. Your observations are absolutely correct that floating rooms/floors are usually built and designed incorrectly and are extremely overrated in their supposed importance, especially when built over slab-on-grade construction.

Sideshow wrote:

I was planning to lay a plastic vapour barrier above concrete as well just in any case. I also plan on using laminate and the rubber matting that is recommended to use with it - directly on concrete.

Most (if not all) laminate flooring underlayments are "two-in-one" vapor barrier as well as a spongy shock absorber. Some are "three-in-one" and include antifungal properties. Thus, there's no need to lay separate vapor barrier and underlayment. It may even be detrimental in some way.

Sideshow wrote:

[b]1. As we bolt our frames to the concrete floor - if we find minor inconsistencies in the concrete level can we simply fill these with silicone?? (I was thinking of pasting the underneath of each frame "plate" with acoustic rated silicone so any anomolies auto fill - might be painful/messy on vapour barrier)

Actually, if you think about it, you've got gaping holes between the studs. ;-) What's critical isn't so much a perfect seal between soleplate and slab, but rather, a perfect resilient seal where the edge of the drywall meets the slab. To illustrate this, suppose your soleplates were a foot off the concrete. (Absurd? Yes... But go with me here.) Who cares? Just make sure the drywall is sealed where it meets the floor. The sound doesn't care how tight the seal is between soleplate and slab.

Sideshow wrote:

2. Does anybody have experiences they can share with laminate and underlay directly on concrete in a studio? (has it fared well in respect to transmission loss between CR and ISO rooms?)

I would think that your choice of flooring won't have any impact whatsoever on transmission loss between adjacent spaces. I plan to just etch stain my concrete slab. It's cheaper than laminate, is more durable, and it looks awesome, almost like marble! 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Keith I REALLY appreciate your input here - you have answered all my questions - and so quick!!! Talk about timing....and yes I did go "with" you about the soleplate being a foot off the concrete - I smiled....:) You' re a funny guy! This concrete etching - you have me thinking now....even more so...I might googlize it and see what it looks like - marble? Wow....now that's impressive! Cheers mate Take Care till next time and hope your build is coming along nicely - you are an inspiration! Eliot

Now I just need to inspire myself into working on my own project again after a monthlong haitus!! :lol: Thanks for the kind words, Sideshow. 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Here's a beautiful example of an etched stain concrete floor in a recording studio! 8) 8) 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

I also want to say that I have a very nice laminate throughout half of our 2,000 square foot home, and it's wonderful, so you can't go wrong with that either. Although, I will say this -- the quality of underlayment you use is very important! The house had a lesser quality laminate/underlayment combo when we moved in. It was OK, but it wasn't very nice to walk on and it had a bit of a "clappy" sound to it underfoot. A plumbing disaster shortly thereafter ruined it and we had to have it all replaced. The difference in quality and walking feel is extraordinary. I was so excited when I walked on it the first time -- I said, "WHOAH, this is what this type of flooring SHOULD feel like." --Keith :mrgreen: