design comments on this setup?

Hi All, Thanks to John, Steve, Ethan and anyone else who contributes to this awesome site! heres the background info: (hope i don't miss anything!) I've been perusing the site for a couple months now. I'm in the design phase of building a new project studio and trackingroom/home theater in WV USA. I have an empty basement as my beginning, in a new house(2003). Block walls, Cement Floor, 9'1" floor to bottom of open wooden joists. Mainly want a decent drum room! I know the end goal of a live room is well balanced, and the HT is dead, but i'll compromise on that (the home-owners mandate includes usefullness and aesthetics!) I will probably have everything from rock to bluegrass musicians, so there will be a different array of noise from the trackign room. Isolation is only important between upstairs and downstairs. There is a hardwood floor upstairs (and it's very easy to hear ppl walking on it), so I plan on insulating the joists (r19) and adding a layer of 5/8th drywall. I know this will not soundproof it, but should significantly increase seperation right? I plan on studding out the walls and filling them with r13,and hanging 1/2in sheetrock. except: the division wall between studio and control, this will be double 5/8th and filled with will use R13 or R19 (the plan shows a rough window, it will be sealed on each wall, and isolated from each other. there will be two identical doors as well.) I plan to build a seperate iso/vox booth as part of the control room. (in back wall or somethign). There are two "major" problems, and numerous smaller ones. i'm probably going to apply a false concrete texture to the curved wall behind the post, hopefully, it will be a really cool looking diffuser! The second is the HVAC running through the room. I'll talk about that, since I have a gameplan for it. I plan on building a sophet around the entire system (as in the sketchup, however, the sketchup doesn't show it completely encased, as it will actually be), insulating the outside of the ducting and then adding two 5/8 sheetrock to the sophet. I have attached a sketchup file with a rough layout, most of it should give you an idea of what i'm trying to do. but dimensions are fairly accurate (within an inch or so!). My budget is about $5k for materials. I will be doing all the installation. (as keeping in spirit of the forum!). (my 84lumber quote for lumber/insulation(not 703)/drywall is about 1300$:) leaving me a good bit for A/V, lighting fixtures, etc...) STILL LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER FOR THIS: also, i'm wondering how people are cleaning the inside face of a dual glass wall that has been biult seperately, but do not open for cleaning, or is it just a too bad... theres dust on your glass window? If there is anything else for me to know please let me know, i will try and follow the rules as much as possible! Thanks for your time! (i'll try and get some pix up soon too!) _________________

wrong topic... meant to post this under Studio Design! not construction... :roll: could someone move this for me? I'd delete it myself if I could! thanks, sandledfoot

sandledfoot - I assume the curved wall behind the post is part of the structure, is the rest of the curve existing or are you going to build it?? The reason I mention it is because it's actually NOT a diffusor, a concave wall concentrates the sound into a focus point, a convex wall would diffuse. cheers john

Hi John, thanks again for your time and energy in this great resourse. I am not building the curved wall, they are both existing supporting above walls, I'm only "dressing" it. I asked ethan how he would address the situation in the acoustics topics, and he went along with it (sort of!) the false rock coating is very rough surface, each "rock" is several inches in depth different, with large gaps between, and the overall effect could act as a diffuser... not ideal, but it's not my house, so i have limited say:) the other curved wall (shown in the sketchup) would be treated w/ 703 and fabric. I've been thinking however that the 2'ceiling "border" around the room (lowered 8' section) ceiling may act as a third leaf, and negate the 5/8th drywall i was hanging on the above floorjoists? would I just be better adding to the actual floor leaf by putting a 1/2" or 5/8th"drywall layer directly under the subfloor (between the joists) and then adding the insulation? the tracking room acoustics has to be addressed as "portable" so that I can remove them when needed. I was thinking of building a hanging form of 703 wrapped in fabric on the wall opposite the window and building movable bass traps for the front (to the right into the room from the CR)of the room. any other for-seeable problems? Thanks for your help! sandled

Hi All, I've got some pix of my build progress. I think it's going rather well since it's only me and I can only work nights and weekends on it. So the first week was rough framing, four of the five walls done. I haven't started the curved wall. The double wall contains: windows are 30"x52", 1/4" laminate, bronze color door is framed for a 36", full glass door. Each wall was tapcon anchored to the block, and floor. The floor between the tracking room and CR has not been isolated. (not my house). This weeks progress, I hope to finish framing the drop ceiling and rough in the electric. the task list thereafter includes: moving the waterlines (in the way of the ceiling) moving the hvac flex ducts, insulating the rest of the ducts, adding the drywall and insulation between the upper floor joists, insulating the walls and hanging drywall, insulating the drop ceiling, drywalling the ceiling and sophets, install lighting, install windows and doors, install floor... etc etc and um... record some music! Cheers All!

opps... here are the other images from the week

no comments thus far :? ... i guese that means everyone approves! I FINALLY found some 703 (it's the Johns Manville equivelant), in pittsburgh from SPI (i called themearlier, but they didn't call back) so now that they answered, i'm getting 20 sheets of the 2" 3lb 2x4 for .60 sqft, which seems like a good price, best yet, they're throwing it on a truck and bringing it to me with another order in morgantown!!! SCORE! I just hope it fits in my honda :shock: I'll have new pix up tomorrow. not much changed visually, but I began the sophets and ceiling. I have yet to begin the drywall in the ceiling, which i will start this weekend. the biggies of moving the gas, hvac and water lines are yet to come :(

greetings all, well, it's slowed down a bit, now that i actually have to measure and measure and cut! first pix: heres the first layer of 5/8th, once i get enough of them up, i'll go back and glue/seal the edges, then add a second layer of 1/2 glue/seal (on edge only). second pix: i'm having the plumber out to move the water lines, so in the meantime i'm starting the drywall layer on the ceiling. the hvac line will travel from right to left between joists and meet up w/ the sophet on the other side of the room, and the travel in the sophet to the upstairs outlet, and will also split off to be tapped to supply this room. sandled

still no comments :cry: well, not much accomplished this weekend, framed the last door and partial wall, the rest of teh wall is coverd by broadband absorbers, installed more drywall between joists and i put in the electrical boxes. plubming and hvac tomorrow, which should allow me to finish the rest of the framing. cheers, sandled

You seem to have it all under control sandled - i do have a problem with that curved rear wall as it will act focus all the low end to one spot in the room creating a heaavy bass hump. Here's a suggestion for fixing it. cheers john

Thanks john! I'll run that by the owner, i fear i'm going to have to build one way, and then address the acoustics as best i can with "portable" trimmings. In those large gaps behind the 703 and slats, would you install hanging insulation? 703 or fiberglass (i could just look this up I guese :wink: ) I also noticed in reading the forums that it's common to use just standard insualtion between the CR and TR walls, NOT 703. Would that just be a waste of the 703 then, and better to just use 703 to treat the interior of the room. or is it worth it acoustically to have the 703 in the wall. I'm concerned about the doors though, I've been reading and reading, and I haven't seen a blatent "you need to use _____ door..." I would like to install full view glass doors. i'm concerned that if i go with the interior doors the glass is not thick enough (again thicker the better?) and the exterior doors has a double pane (4leaf problem!) so, the two doors will negate the benifit of the laminated glass either way I go, so any recommendations? Oh, and I did order rods book, however it has not gotten here STILL :x Thanks! sandled

Yes - you can save on cost by using normal insulation in the walls. I'm not sure which doors you are refering to - the ones between the CR and TR can be glass but you need to use standard glass but different thicknesses in each door. i.e. 1/4" and 3/8" or better still, 3/8" and 1/2". You can easily remove the laminated glass and replace it in the outer door. I've attached a skp of a sealed glass door. cheers john

OK, to clarify: yes, the doors I'm most concerned with are between the Control room and Tracking room, The other hall door can be a double glazed door, or alternatively two solid core doors with no window, the owner will have to decide. (I will recommend the solid core doors). so, I will order two doors of different glass thickness and seal them, off to lowes! Thanks again sandled

progress: the plumbers came out and moved the water lines, I (and my friend Ken) will be doing the electrical rough in this weekend, and hope to also move the hvac lines. that will allow me to finish framing the sophets and ceiling next week. drywall to follow :) so, lowes does not carry, nor can they order a door with anything but the standard 1/8th" glass, (or double pane... door) and (which was above and beyond what he needed to do, so thanks!) they had a supply company quote me $490 for a custom door with a cutout for 1/4" or 3/8" with NO glass at all :shock: , so that I could just order the glass myself and then install it in their door. seems expensive! i'm still calling around. anyone have some suggestions for two full view(full glass) back to back 36" doors with single 1/4", 3/8" or 1/2" glass thickness? what if I bought a double pane glass door, took it apart and sandwiched the two panes of glass together, acoustic problems, rattle problems? or good idea :P any ideas? suggestions?

hi all, well, began the electrical rough in last week. I'm out of town this week, so i'm not getting alot done, but i'll tell ya whats happening. installing four new circuits: 1 20amp for 2 single gang + 3 quadgang outlets in tracking room 2 15amp for 4 single gang outlets (+ 1 light future? ) + 1 outlet for projector in tracking room 3 20amp for 3 quad gang outlets in control room ( 2 single gang outlets future?) 4 20amp lighting in tracking room / and 1 light over desk area in control room three zones(switches) for overhead and sophet additional wire: tracking room: 7.1 surround sound in wall w/ terminated boxes rgb composite video run to projector hdmi cable (tv and internet) 2 8ch 4rtrn snakes (length not determined yet) hope to get the hvac moved this weekend and finish the wiring lata

hey all, well, it's getting there, slowly right now. heres the scoop. most electric has been roughed in. everything is moved that needed to move, so i've started the rest of the ceiling and soffit. talked w/ the home-builder to see if it's feasible to do the false rock on the column and back wall, seems like it's definately possible - should look WAY cool when it's done. (albeit, probably not the best idea to have in a tracking room, but i've requested that there be large amounts of depth and angle variation so that it can act as a diffuser. and I can always surface treat the room. and i just got a bunch of rough cut cherry for stuff, should be a good little score for 30$! heres some pix. first shows the "screen" wall. used as a screen for the home theater, there are HT boxes for the center and right chanel visible, alone with the 3gang light switch box second: shows how I tapped the upstairs supply to feed the TR third: shows how I moved the vent from the side of the supply trunk line to the top (that was a pain to cut) fourth: shows the crtr wall quad box outlets. hey nice saw! (sorry it's new! :D ) later!

hey all, well progress is going slow, i'm split between two projects, so... but here's whats going on. the ceiling has 98% of the drywall panels up, the duct is 50% covered and the wiring is about 80% roughed in. this weekend I hope to get the ceiling drywall done, the duct covered and finish the wiring. I also will be working on the sofet this weekend and hope to completely build it out. heres a pix of how I framed the curved wall. cheers, sandled

hey all, well, making some progress this week, most of the sofet and ceiling framing is done. anyways, heres the proof. (i know some people don't read the text and only look for pix) heres a pix of the rough cut cherry to be used for the window frames/door you can also see the duct wrapped, and the sofet covering it, I don't have the end of the sofet done yet, the round cap, but that will come soon. i've managed to create a little nook above the curved part of the room that might prove to be usefull space. Not sure if it will help but i dont think it will hurt acoustically, maybe even function as some form of trap. (i have no idea what i'm talking about.) in either case, i just didn't want to wall off that much of the ceilling in that part of the room and just stopping the sofet at the support column didn't make sense. kevin

Hi All, Hope everyone has had a great pair of holidays! I've been pretty busy, and not much work has been happening on the studio (lame I know). but i have a few photos for you! The first is the project box in the corner, the second is the bull nose to the sofet, which hides the HVAC the third is the reason i've not been working on the studio, i've been working at getting the churchs new system up and running! pictured is our new yamaha m7cl console and racks

Hi all, Though I haven't posted in a bit, i've resumed work on the studio. So far, i have everything insulated (thanks steve!) and have begun the drywall. I have also spoken with the builder to confirm the false rock, and his requirements for that. So heres a few pix of the progress, should come together soon! I can't wait to get back to recording and mixing! first picture shows entering the tracking room from the control room, second pix is a crude mosaic of the tracking room looking back at the control room door (which will be glass) and window, false rock area (exposed block), sofet that hides the hvac and door to the rest of the basement (which will be a plain solid door). kevin

ok it's getting exciting! most of the drywall is up. some of the mud coats have been applied and the room is sounding pretty good! i hope to be painting by the end of the week. though i need some electricity for the lights! first pix is tracking/control room wall, second pix shows the tracking room back wall, (the drywall still needs to be cut away from the door). kevin

no comments thus far, i know your watching! 8) been mudding/taping/sanding / repeat... hmmm what else does this process remind me of... ??? tracking, cutting, tracking, mixing, tracking, mixing, rewind, mix, rewind, mix... took a break from mudding to plane some wood, sand and stain it. 80/120/220 and a single coat of olymics 'red oak' oil stain (6$/qt). tonight i'll apply one of three coats of minwaxs polyacrylic ($34/gl). 2.5 hours planing, 2 hours of sanding and 5minutes of staining for four boards. so heres the results. these are the first to install, which will be the shelves inlaid in the false rock (which will be mounted on the block wall shown in the other photos. the window frame and door frames will also get this treatment. second pix is a prime sample :D the third pix shows the control room wall still exposed, with the ceiling... i'm still trying to figure out how to treat the control room, so that it's symmetrical... and hiding the ductwork

hey all, :?: looking for some ideas on how to tackle the double door threshold area. the stud walls are spaced 4.5" apart (for a total of 12" airgap). and if I install the doors as is, the factory thresholds create an un-even space. I was wondering if I should remove them and create a new threshold myself that integrates both doors. please see the pix to see what i'm talking about. edit: I'm concerned that if I create a new integrated threshold from the cherry stock, that it will be sitting on the concrete (or a foam sill seal?) will this be ok? I used pressure treated elsewhere on the concrete floor. as for progress... most of the room is drywalled and most of it has been mudded. I've been getting some of the wood finished so that I can mount the shelves and make that area available to the contractor doing the concrete work. it's coming along, tryign to choose a color, it won't be long before we paint! :D any comments so far? I know i'm doing alot of things that I shouldn't (like couple the ceiling to the floor joists above) but again, this is not my house, so I have to make some compromises for the homeowners sake. when I get my own house, i'll try and do things according to rod's bible (i mean book)! (it might be the 6th edition before that happens too!) anyways, the rest of the builds look great on the site, this really is a great resource. kevin

:? :arrow: Hoping Steve or Rod or ANYONE :roll: to give me some feedback... :?: I was looking for some help regarding the threshold question still... ideas? My latest idea is to use a filler piece that would equal the height of the threshold, but i'm not sure how to keep it in place, and still not sure if it's "safe" to put the piece right on the concrete, or if i need a foam sill moisture guard under it. I was going to cut a slot for the edge of the metal threshold lip to sit in, which would keep it in place, or possibly glue it down.

Since no one is commenting... figured I would, not much to add except... Genius work in terms of build, construction, and a+ for creativity... good work man... as you said somethings are not traditional studio build like isolating this or that and floating this or that etc. But, it looks great and end result should look great and work pretty well too -- its someone elses quote - but you can treat so much with additional absorbers and treatments etc. etc. vs. making the walls etc. absorb or do this or that... At least the rooms aren't freaking square to start with etc. and its gonna look sharp... I do wonder about sound transmission from the live room to the CR in these types of spaces where all this elaborate work has been done, but in a traditional studio like this (separate LR and CR) - how or what are you doing to make sure there is no leakage between? Also, is this a basement or where is this? (I missed that I think)... Good work - David