Please Check new studio build plans

hi, I am after you feedback on my plans.. I have been reading this forum for ages and I am now putting my plans together. I am converting a red brick garage (part of house extension) to a drum pratice/teaching room.. also if poss. for small band get togethers and recording acoustic drums. the pics below are of the house I am buying and size plans.. and the build plans so far... I have not moved in yet so dont have "inside" pictures. I have a road to the right of the garage so dont need absolute sound proof but the more the better. I am making my plans as early as poss. as I am intending to have the outer layer work done by builders then I will build the inner room (unless I can also get that built within my budget.. In the Plans you can see I am having a new brick wall built across the garage to cover the door, then I am having two fire doors put in. 1 to the house then 1 to the front of the garage. The plans are made from your previous ideas and I hope you dont mind me using some of your pictures.. especially Sherward... The brick will will have studs drilled on then mdf cut and placed in between. these will be held in via cleates on the studs. the plaster board will then be screwed to the mdf and acoustic sealant applied to the edges. then a second layer added. if I need more then there will then be a third layer applied but this time covering the cleats.. then Insulation/pink stuff .. roof the same, but to the existing joists/studs Stage 2 to follow will involve building an inner room, I intend to have a air cirulation system but not aircon. that will use a current air outlet in the garage, but I need to research my alternative fans etc yet. Any advice etc would REALLY be appreciated. I am going to have to explain this stuff to the builders/carpenters so I am very keen to have clear easy to follow plans. Q1. I have no idea if anything should be put between these layers of plaster/gypsum? I will be using green glue on the inner room but cant afford and dont trust builders to use it on the outer layer (£141 for 12 tubes of 857ml GG) Q2. will my outer layer work? Q3. are the principles used by you studio builders standard building methods or will I need to check that the builders are doing as you recomend? I have a pretty good budget and want to do it properly... I am a full time musicain so this is my business aswell, hence the wish to get it complete ASAP once I move in. The cheaper the better as I will be using the budget to firstly build, then whats left to furnish and put the equipment in, also to put an acoustic kit in the room. no def figure but hopefully around $5000 - $9000 thanks

Congratulations on your project thread kickoff, Geoff Fry! 8)

geoff_fry01 wrote:

The plans are made from your previous ideas and I hope you dont mind me using some of your pictures.. especially Sharward...

Flattered, honored, humbled. :-)

geoff_fry01 wrote:

The brick will will have studs drilled on then mdf cut and placed in between. these will be held in via cleates on the studs. the plaster board will then be screwed to the mdf and acoustic sealant applied to the edges. then a second layer added.

You may not have to go to this effort. A brick wall makes a pretty darned good outer leaf in and of itself. In fact, there may be reasons not to do what you have described. If you press MDF against the brick, it will not handle moisture well at all (MDF pretty much disintegrates when it gets wet :(). OSB is more moisture tolerant, but still, I wouldn't apply it to a surface that is expected to wick moisture. I am by no means an expert on this, so don't take my word for it. Hopefully this will be enough of a nudge to get you to research that on your own, and if we're lucky, to have some experts or more experienced folks here respond with their points of view.

geoff_fry01 wrote:

Stage 2 to follow will involve building an inner room, I intend to have a air cirulation system but not aircon. that will use a current air outlet in the garage, but I need to research my alternative fans etc yet.

My only word of advice on that would be to be sure you won't need air conditioning. Often we make these judgments based on outside temperatures. Remember that lighting and gear generate heat, and so do human bodies. Ventilation alone may not do the job. Consider also the fact that true A/C, if properly sized, will act to dehumidify the space, which will cut down on the amount of moisture in the air inside the room, which would then want to migrate to the outside through your double walls. If that moisture gets trapped between your walls, you could end up with a mold problem. Again, not the expert -- just something you'll want to research before finalizing/building even phase one.

geoff_fry01 wrote:

Q1. I have no idea if anything should be put between these layers of plaster/gypsum? I will be using green glue on the inner room but cant afford and dont trust builders to use it on the outer layer (£141 for 12 tubes of 857ml GG)

No, Nothing between -- that is if you end up beefing up that brickwork.

geoff_fry01 wrote:

Q2. will my outer layer work?

I don't have the tools/calculators to determine this, but others here do (specifically, Steve, a.k.a. "knightfly"). Maybe he can run some numbers for you.

geoff_fry01 wrote:

Q3. are the principles used by you studio builders standard building methods or will I need to check that the builders are doing as you recomend?

Excellent question. No, they are not standard. They are anything but standard. If you have this work done for you, you will need to very carefully supervise every step. Steve has written quite a bit about the phenomenon of contractors thinking they know how to build studios or structures where sound isolation is important. Most often they don't know what they think they know and what they think they know is often wrong. Steve is quick to say, and I am too, that it's an understandable situation, and that nobody is calling them stupid... But as a rule, they really don't have a clue how to build this stuff, why certain things are important, etc. So much of this stuff is darned unintuitive, especially when you're accustomed to building via conventional methods. For that reason, I think that sometimes less experienced contractors make better studio builders because they haven't necessarily started going on autopilot by then. :roll: Hopefully that's enough to get things rolling in terms of research for you to continue doing and for others to share feedback. --Keith :mrgreen:

Geoff,

Steve has written quite a bit about the phenomenon of contractors thinking they know how to build studios or structures where sound isolation is important.

I have friend (who is a contractor) of mine that is helping me with my build and when he finally understood what I was doing for sound insulation he looked at me like I was crazy.

If it were my project, I'd just cement over the brick outer wall (I think they call it "rendering" on your side of the pond. I think it's Bob Gold's site (check the References section of the forum) that shows simply putting a coat of cement over the brick really increases the TL of the wall. Sharward's advice about mounting ANYTHING directly against the brick wall is good and should be heeded. Rendering your wall is quick an cheap (and could really be done by just about anyone leaving a lot more of your budget for the inside walls/AC ect. If you are NOT going to put in an A/C system, at least consider a dehumidifier to avoid future mold problems. len

hi, thanks for the advice.. I have spoken to a plasterer friend and he agree's rendering will be way easier and cheaper.. (appart from roof that will need a "beef up" But I cant find any info on if it will make it sound proof "enough"... know this is an open ended question but anyone know if rendering then skimmng will help sound proof fairly well? or anywhere near as well as 2 layers of plasterboard? I have a mobil aircon unit that I was planning or intragating some how with the air out let .. i.e. the outlet (warm/used) air of the mobile aircon going into the outlet for the air.. but I know its not ideal so I may lok into a full air con unit... Thanks!! Geoff