Basement one-room studio

Hello all! :D First of all, I'm very sorry this is my secod thread opened... I started a similar thread on the Acoustics forum, but didn't get any replys... And it also feels more suitable to have this thread in the Studio Design forum... (John, you're welcome to erase the first thread... (http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6901)) Anyway... here's the sotry: I may get a chance to rent a basement, so I may get a chance to build a studio... The studio will have to double as a rehersal space, that is why it has to be a little bright... Because I'm renting, everything must be semi-portable... If I move the studio, everything should be pretty easy to transport... This is why almost everything (soffit mounts and "hanger closet" not icluded) is made of some sort of acoustic panels... even the Helmholz resonators (manegable pieces put on top of each-other) I haven't had the chance to measure accurately the real room, so this is not to scale... It's just an idea... As far as I can remember, the room is about 8m long, 5m wide and 4m high in corners, but the ceiling is sort of like a dome (lack for a beter word)... All the walls are very thick cement... I will post picture of the real room when I get the chance... The reds are bass traps (mostly panel absorbers, two only 705 in corners) Blue are 703 for mid-high ebsorption (distanced for the wall) Green are Helmholz resonators The resonators are also diffuzors for early reflection treatment... On the other half of the room there are basstraps on the walls combined with 703, arranged so that there's always a reflective surface opposite to a mid-high absorbers... The brown sqare at the back of the room is hard wood floor, for better "ambience" recordings... Another overview: This time almost without the color-code :lol: The only thing to look out for is that the greyish color represents fabric. This is important because not only does it show where the 703 absorbers are, it also shows the access to "acoustic hangers" in the front of the room... Here's a more detailed picture of the whole soffit-mount/hangers area: It's not the best pic ever... But here's what you can see here... It is divided in the Soffit-mount section, wich has hangars it the bottom half; and the "biggher hangers" area... (hangers are painted red) The "bigger hangers" have a relativerly small dirrect access to the room... could that be a problem? What do you think of this design? I know I must have done some major mistakes... Thank you all! Borut

After some input form Mario Petrinovich, I changed the design a little... In the fron of the room there is now a symetrical helmholz resonator... I also added two "couds" The biggest question I have right now is: Most of the treatment is 2m high, the ceilings are 4m high... Is this high enough, or should I make it higher? Thank you! Borut

SoulFood wrote:

After some input form Mario Petrinovich, I changed the design a little... In the fron of the room there is now a symetrical helmholz resonator...

:D Well, I didn't tell you to put slot resonator there. I just told you to make things symetrical there. In his DIY kit John Sayers recommended heavily damping of front and rear walls. It looks like a good and effective solution. So, maybe some heavy apsorbtion there, just like DIY kit. I don't know, maybe somebody else can help. -- Mario

But I don't think my room is as small as the one on the John's site... About the front of the room... I may be wrong here, but I think a resonator infront of the room would be best for me, as I want a pretty live room... I just thought that because of the room being 8m long, soffit mounted monitors, and alot of mid-high absorption in the first half of the room, I could afford a reflective surface... Where the main CR widow would be, only diffusing at once... Also for the corner bass trap... I would have the 705-over-a-corner wherever possible, but I'd like to control the low frequencies a little more, so I added membrane absorbers... These are (I think I read it on Ethan Winer's site...) one of the most effective and also relatively small... Another plus is that they can also be diffusors, so that I will be able to have a brighter room only without echos... (panel diffusors in combination with the mid-high absorbers)... Are the elements high enough? I planned to treat the bottom half (money is an issue), leave the upper half untreated, but controlling this with basstraps and "clouds" Thank you so much for your reply Mario! :D

I like it Borut :D well done mate. Possibly some angular ceiling treatment, over the drums maybe?? cheers john

Wow! Thank you John! Should there be some problems, because the room is about 4m high, and the treatment only 2m? Also... I've noticed different membrane absorber plans... The ones on Ethan Winer's site don't have the fiberglass glued to the membrane, on the SAE reference material site it is glued to the membrane... Wich would be more efficient? Also about the clouds... Would it make sense to angle them? Thank you! Borut

I just got more exact measurements of the room... They're still not perfect (not inch-accurate) but here they are: L: 8m; W 4m; H: 3m Would mostly 2m high treatment work in a room like that? OR is there considerable improvement of making it 3m?

I ulpoaded the pictures to the site, so they won't dissapear... I finally read the DON'T EVEN think ABOUT POSTING before you READ THIS... thread... :oops: I hope I'll get more answers now... The construction will start in a few weeks so I'd really apretiate all the help I can get! -------------------------------------------------------------- Here's what I'm trying to accomplish: -I'd like to build acoustic treatment for a room. It has to be portable (portable in a sense you can move it with a van in about a day) -It has to look cool 8) -the room is used as a rehersal space, and will continue to be that, so it should sound really good! :shock: -As stated above, I'd like it to be more of a "live room" than absorbing all the high frequencys. -I don't need ANY isolation. It is a basement with REALLY thick concrete walls, ceiling and floor... Noone lives in the building - I have about 1500$ for everything... I will update the prices of components, when I get them... The only price I got so far is for the rockwool. The equivalent of the 705, 4'' thick is 8,6$ per sqare meter, the equivalent to the 703 is 2,7$ per sqare meter... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's what I tried to do with my design: - Create a NRZ at the mixing position -control middle frequencies with the helmholz resonators infron of the room, at the sides of the mixing position (doubbling as difuzors) -Have just enough of high freq absorption... This will be the "703 pannels" in the first half of the room... -Have a really good acoustics for drums at the back of the room -somehow control high frequencys with two clouds, one over the mixing position and the other over the "drums area" ------------------------------------------------------------------- And finally, the questions... -What do you guys think of the design, now that I explained in more detail, what I'm trying to accomplish (Thank you again John for the comment!) -What would you change? -Wich "membrane bass trap" design would you reccomend, the one on the SAE reference site or the one Ethan Winer used in his studio? -Do you have any ideas on how to make a "vocal acoustics" somewhere in a room? Acoustics that would be in the vocal booth... I thiught of some free standing 703 pannels... Oh... Maybe I should explain a little more about the situation or... "where I am at this point"... We're renting the room and have had it for about a year now. There should not be any danger of getting kicked out, but I also can't get a contract... That's why it all has to be semi-portable" Thank you all so much! Borut

Could anyone please give any comments? I feel like I'm doing something very wrong and very obvious, that everyone can see except me... Is this why I have so few replies? Or at least tell me what I'm doing wrong, so that noone feels I should be replied... :oops:

Borut - I didn't realise that the ceiling when up another 2m. So again I suggest more ceiling treatment. As for the membrane question, I was taught to attach the insulation to the panel, Ethan was taught differently - I'm not sure that it matters. here's a pic of a A9 BBC absorber where the panel is backwards in the module and the insulation is attached to it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/archive/pd ... actice.pdf Interesting design especially when you see the low end absorption. cheers john

Thank you so much John!!! And thank you for that link!!! I'll dive into it right now! Borut

Unfortunatelly... It seems I can't trust my friends... :shock: I finally got to measuring the room more accurately, and they were off quite a bit! And this is an understatement! Anyway... the ceiling is not straight, but it is way more angeled than I thought... The room is 7,06m long, 3,87m wide. you can find the other measurment on the "measurments_small" picture.

For better understanding of the real situation, here is a photo...

Here's a little clue what the mixing position should look like (note that the "soffits" are not fully drawn... the bottom half will be covered in cloth and won't be sealed with a board infront to have a little bass absorption...) Also the front slat resonators will be rotated so that they will make a symetrical front end of the room... and on the ceiling I thought I'd put some acoustic foam (?!)

Here's an overview... I'm sorry to tell you, that I simply forgot to measure where the doors are... :oops: :oops: :oops: :shock:

When posting this picture, I just found out that the room is not completely symetrical where the mixing position is... I will swich the "high-and-mid" absorber on one side, so that it will be symetrical...

Here's a side view... I should explain that the clowd will not be as low as in the picture... Maybe it is my stupidity, maybe it is the late hour (3:05 AM here...), but I couldn't the get the ceiling to be a surface in SketchUp... The could should act as a "bass trap/panel" but hsould also prevent the sound from bouncing off the ceiling somewhat...

Now to the questions... In Slovenia, the easiest rockwool to find (there may be others hiding somewhere, but I couldn't find them) is TERVOL. DP-8 is about 90 kg/m3 so that could be an equivalent to the 705... The problem is that the next one in line as far as density goes is 5 kg/m3... :shock: Should I use the DP-8 everywhere, even for slat resonators and panel absorbers (mid-high freqs)? The price for the DP-8 is about 10$ per m2 (10cm thick) do you think there is enough high-freq treatment in my design? drums will be in the back of the room (where the phantom door is). Do you think that this combination of membrane absorbers at the bottom and "panel absorbers" would make drums sound good? (acoustically... I'm still searching for a good drummer :wink: ) To John: I'm sorry the measurments were so off... And thank you for your input so far!!!! Any comments anyone? Thank you! Borut

well it's better without all that extended ceiling ;) here's a sketchup of what I'd do - try and resize it to fit your exact measurements. cheers john

Thank you so much John! Awesome design! 1.)I just have to check something... Are the "blue thingies" on my pictures "broadband absorbers?" there is just 703 covered in some fabric, am I correct? They're not membrane absorbers, are they? 2.)Also, as you will see in the picture, the treatment takes up alot of space... How much could I reduce the deapth of the treatment? Or is this the best effectiveness/space ratio? 3.)In my room the soffit mounts will have to be quite deep (1,2m). Do you think it would be a good idea to have some hangers there, or would it be better to just fill it with 705? 4.)And about the cloud in the back... The floor will be carpeted, wouldn't it be too much to have another cloud? The surfaces are not paralell... (just my noob thinking...) 5.) and the last question... Since the ceiling is hm... (don't know the correct word.. concave?) would it be a good idea to put a bass trap in the center of the ceiling... it seems that there would be alot of bass there... And again, Thank you John so much for your valuable time!! :D

1.)I just have to check something... Are the "blue thingies" on my pictures "broadband absorbers?" there is just 703 covered in some fabric, am I correct? They're not membrane absorbers, are they?

Yes - just 703 - not a membrane.

2.)Also, as you will see in the picture, the treatment takes up alot of space... How much could I reduce the deapth of the treatment? Or is this the best effectiveness/space ratio?

yes - you could shorten them by a couple of inches to allow more room.

3.)In my room the soffit mounts will have to be quite deep (1,2m). Do you think it would be a good idea to have some hangers there, or would it be better to just fill it with 705?

I thought you had already decided to put hangers in there - I just was too lazy to draw them in ;)

4.)And about the cloud in the back... The floor will be carpeted, wouldn't it be too much to have another cloud? The surfaces are not paralell... (just my noob thinking...)

I added two clouds - one is reflective, i.e. the one over your mixer, the other is absorptive to stop reflections from the ceiling bouncing back at the mix position. The front cloud also adds reflections back to the drum area.

5.) and the last question... Since the ceiling is hm... (don't know the correct word.. concave?) would it be a good idea to put a bass trap in the center of the ceiling... it seems that there would be alot of bass there...

see my previous answer. cheers john

Thank you John for all your help!!! I really appretiate it! I'll go abuse the search funciton some more now... :shock: