My New Project Studio

Wow, love this forum. I highly recommend to any and everyone who is looking to build a studio. Thanks for taking the time to answer everyone's questions, you guys are awesome. Built my home last year with the intent of finishing off part of my basement to accommodate my home/project studio. My main goals for this studio will be sound isolation for band rehearsals, and a place for tracking. I normally track my projects at home, then book time in a pro studio, to record VOX and mix. In the long run, I get a much better product than if I where to try and do everything in my own place. Besides, you pros are always going to have better gear than me. Listen up poeple, record your VOX with the best mic/gear you can lay your hands on! Can't tell you how many demos I've heard where the band was great but the vocals were total crap. Listen people, if you want someone important to get excited about your music, (ie A&R,Radio etc.) You must have good vocals! (getting off soapbox...) Anyway, I'm looking forward to getting this project underway, and would be grateful for any helpful suggestions. (see my questions at the bottom) Did a number of things during construction to make studio build easier; - Pre-Wired Electrical Sub-panel for studio (100amp) - Pre-layout of PVC before basement slab was poured. - 10 foot ceilings with no interior posts. - Oversized HVAC with zoning to accommodate studio sqft. - Ploysteel formblock basement construction (http://www.polysteel.com) - ISO machine room **Polysteel is a structured foam block that is stacked on top of each other, like lego's, and pumped full of concrete. The final wall is over 14 inchs thick; 8" concrete and 3" of polystyrene on each side. Not only does this make for a very "quiet" wall, it also provides R30 thermal performance. I highly recommend it although it is $$ (approx $4 per sqft USD when I built last year) Here's my working idea; (see attached) Dimensions: WIDTH: 20' LENGTH:35' HIGHT: 10' Most important factors: - Ceiling sound isolation. (WAF: Wife Acceptance Factor) This is of paramount importance. Can't have a huge amount of sound bleed to the upstairs living space. - Living space above is all hardwood. I know, I know but what are you going to do? If the wife wants hardwood she gets hardwood. "Footfall" sound leakage is going to be a major issue. - Tracking and rehearsal will be main usage. As mentioned earlier, I book studio time in a pro facility when it comes to mix/master. That being said I will mix demo's and little projects, so a good sounding room will be needed on occasion. - Audio and Video requirements I will also need to incorporate video editing as more and more of my projects will require it. I also plan on tying my studio to my home theater, so I can view works in progress easily. Questions: - What is the most cost effective way to suspend the ceiling? Is it better to suspend the entire ceiling (approx 900sqft) or suspend the drum ISO booth then the VOX ISO, control room etc. all separately? (Pro's Cons') - What is the effect of building a "ISO booth" inside the room with a suspended ceiling? (room in a room) Have I violated the 2 leaf principal? - Approx weight issues for triple 5/8 sheetrock, when suspended 2' on center? - Suggestions on the "Studio A" and ISO booths dimensions? I'm open to anything really, just wondering what people have found successful. Should I even worry about a VOX ISO booth? Appreciate all your guys help, will try and add more pictures as I go. Thanks, Hannibal

Hannibal - your drawing is not to scale. here it is in scale. cheers john

This is the view looking into the studio from the basement area. A polysteel block wall (14") seperates the studio from the rest of the basement.

This is the view toward the drum ISO (left side) and VOX ISO. (right side) Again polysteel around all outside walls. Notice no posts in the middle of the room. The beams span 22' accross the room. Am planning to suspend the ceiling.

View to the control room and machine ISO. (right) Notice the sewer and water directly in front. This will be a sound source problem. All toilets and sinks evacuate to this location. I am planning on wrapping the pipes and framing around them. Can't permanently close them off as, I may need to get to the "clean-out" at some future date.

Began by sealing off the "1st leaf" (underside of the upstairs floor) with a fiber and gypsum mud, similar to spray-on ceiling texture. (called ceiling pop-corn here in the US) Hoping this will help add mass to the "1st leaf" as well as provide for an air-tight seal, from the bottom side. Considered adding sheetrock to the underside, however logistically this would be difficult as all my HVAC/ plumbing and some electrical share this space.

Next have added R30 insulation between the floor joists. Am in the process of running electrical and HVAC. Once complete I will move on to suspending the ceiling... Yikes!!

John, Thanks for the scale drawing. My only change would be to move the storage area at the front of the control room to the back of the control room, as I have pre installed PVC pipes against the front wall for audio wiring. Here are a few questions, should you have time to respond. Thanks again, Hannibal Questions: - What is the most cost effective way to suspend the ceiling? Is it better to suspend the entire ceiling (approx 900sqft) or suspend the drum ISO booth then the VOX ISO, control room etc. all separately? (Pro's Cons') - What is the effect of building a "ISO booth" inside the room with a suspended ceiling? (room in a room) Have I violated the 2 leaf principal? - Any weight issues for triple 5/8 sheetrock, when suspended 2' on center? - Suggestions on the "Studio A" and ISO booth dimensions? I'm open to anything really, just wondering what people have found successful. Should I even worry about a VOX ISO booth?

Here is my idea for suspending the ceiling. (see attached cross-section) Plan to use 1.5" nylon belt (seat belt) at 2' on center looped around a 2x4 stud and attached to the joist via a nailing plate, to suspend a gridwork ceiling. Then screw at 2' on center 5/8 sheetrock to the suspended gridwork. This will become the first layer of my suspended ceiling. Next will add a .5" fiber board sheeting. (adhesive caulked in place) screws ad hoc where needed to support weight. Final layer of adhesive caulk, then attach 5/8 sheetrock (alternate direction) and screw 2' on center to suspended 2x4. Make sense? Your thoughts? __ SUSPENDED CEILING CROSS SECTION ___ - 1st leaf is the upper floor/OSB subfloor and gypsum/fiber mud. - R-30 insulation plus air space fill the middle section. Approx 16". - Ceiling is suspended via the use of nylon seat belt straps. Sound transmission is min. if any. Approx load bearing 3500lbs. - 2nd leaf begins with 2x4 stud running perpendicular to floor joists. - 5/8 sheetrock --> adhesive caulk --> fiber board --> adh. caulk --> 5/8 sheetrock. - final tape, texture and paint on studio interior ceiling.

how will you attach 3 layers to a series of 2x4 that are floating (dangeling) from hanging straps? And is the design intended to hold that much weight? I'd be afraid the upstairs floor would sag and ruin the hardwood flooring. Why don't you frame a room inside a room and run the 2x10 in between the trusses? This way you would not have to give up much of you room height.

Do you have Rod's book yet? Also, the "storage room" that John drew looks more like a vocal booth to me. I agree with the "room within a room" idea. If you can afford the headroom, having an inner leaf ceiling mounted to the tops of your inner leaf walls is superior. --Keith :mrgreen:

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: Do you have Rod's book yet?

Thanks for that... I'll be picking up a copy shortly.

Also, the "storage room" that John drew looks more like a vocal booth to me.

Doh! haha... Vocal Booth, Storage Room... its all the same. :) I do need the storage space though. Too much !@*&#

I agree with the "room within a room" idea. If you can afford the headroom, having an inner leaf ceiling mounted to the tops of your inner leaf walls is superior.

Can't believe no one likes my "seatbelt suspended ceiling"!!! I thought it was kinda cool. Am totally open to building the "room-within-a-room" (would still end up with 9' of ceiling height when completed) My main concern is the additional cost involved. I can use stucco to finish off the existing walls of the basement, rather than going to the expense/time of framing another wall just to hold up "another" ceiling. I'll have to think about that. Have a lot of wall sqft so it wouldn't be cheap even if done 2' on center. Plus more sheetrock/tape/paint etc. Whereas I already have stucco from the house exterior leftover. (no $$ involved) My exterior walls are already 14" thick with 3" of polystirine on the inside and outside, so I'm not really gaining much by adding another framed wall. Unless I'm missing something... Would I need to put another layer of insulation in the new ceiling I hang, or would my existing R-30 layer be enough? Would you recommend room-in-a-room for each booth, or a single structure/room for the entire downstairs. Thanks for your time... Hannibal

Checked out polysteel a few years ago, understand they've gone away from their original design and now use a more uniform concrete thickness - still, in either form this is essentially a single leaf wall - only thing is, the foam parts are useless for sound proofing as they have very little mass - the only GOOD news is, they don't form a multi-leaf wall because they're bonded to the concrete on either side. For even better isolation though, this should still only be considered as one leaf in a 2-leaf wall - if your "WAF" is as important as you say, I'd forget the suspended ceiling approach (2 reasons - not as good isolation from above, and we don't know what the load rating of your basement ceiling trusses is, nor what's "left over" to use for supporting a ceiling. Odds are, unless you specified before construction that your floor trusses should be able to support an extra 10 PSF or more, they CAN'T. Builders tend NOT to give anything they're not asked for/paid for, so at most they would probably have inferred that you might want to put a lightweight (5 PSF or less) suspended ceiling downstairs... 3 layers of 5/8 rock weighs approx. 7.5 PSF not including any framing, so a complete grid system with 3 layers would run nearly 10 PSF added to whatever weight your existing upper floor applies to your trusses. Ceilings - separate is better for iso between rooms within the studio - it won't matter much for iso to the upper house, but might also be better in that respect - it won't be worse. In a nutshell, for best isolation in every direction you should think of your studio as a bunch of separate little "houses", each with it's own heavy, single-leaf/multi-layer walls and "roof", only tied together by flexible materials(sway brackets) - Also, if you want these rooms to SOUND good you need to NOT think like a carpenter in at least one way - carpenters tend to think in multiples of 4 feet when building, because sheet goods come in these sizes and it's cheaper to build in 4,8,12,16 foot increments with 8 foot ceilings. IF you build sound rooms that way, they'll make your life miserable trying to get them to sound good. For example, a 6x6 vocal booth with an 8' ceiling will sound like a box no matter what you do afterward; where a 5 x 7 vocal booth has 1 square foot less floor area, and with an 8 foot ceiling there are no two dimensions that are going to resonate at the same frequencies. Much better. (Yes, it's more of a PITA to build; never said it was gonna be easy :cry: ) Just some starting points; HTH... Steve