How to build music room for son??

Please help. I am an inexperienced mom of a 12yo boy who plays the saxophone and electric guitar so far. My husband and I want to construct him his own little "music room" where he can have all his instruments and equipment. We have plenty of space in our barn to build him at least a 10 x 20 room. This is a typical "pole barn" constructed from 4x4 posts, particle board then the same siding that is on our house. Roof is at 16' and metal so we plan on putting a roof on the room we build him inside this structure. My question is not about sound proofing, we live way out in the country with no neighbors nearby, besides we love hearing him play. My question is in regards to simple acoustic quality. I have heard we shouldn't build it square for this reason, but maybe five sided? Don't put a flat roof we were told, pitch it somehow. Since this room is not attached to the house, we are planning on putting a dehumidifier and air conditioner in it. I have read through many of your posts and they seem way too advanced compared to what we are wanting as far as construction etc. Can you please help us with some very basic instructions on a $500.00 - $1000 budget? We would love to get him started out the right way and not have to redo after a couple years. Thanks, Mary :D

$500 budget? Stick the air conditioner in, put a couch in the room, and that should do it. :) In my opinion, unless he's going to record himself playing, acoustical treatment seems a little unnecessary. If the room is already built, you could build some bass traps for the corners if you really feel like doing some treatment. For $500 though you're not going to be able to do a whole lot. But, if the room hasn't been built yet, then yes, there are ways to design it for better acoustical performance. Look at John's studio designs for ideas.

Thanks for your reply. No the room has not been built yet, but we are getting ready to frame it up that is why I asked about the four sided wall and ceiling issue before we do something we will have to redo later. He might want to record in the near future. If it is going to take a bit more we are willing to put in at least $1000 for this project not including the room framing materials which we already have on hand. We have a couch and a couple barstool chairs, along with a small storage cabinet for music, cords, etc that will also go in this room. I briefly went through the studio designs and am still looking through them. Any other hints?

Well the fact that you're not concerned with sound proofing, that will drastically lower the price of building the room. You can use regular construction techniques, but build the room like a studio. The walls will still be reflective, so you may want to consider acoustical treatment, but because more sound will be escaping the room, it won't be quite as reflective, and more bass will escape the room, which is more or less good from a treatment point of view. Let others weigh in on this, don't only listen to me. Not many people here will claim to be an "expert", and most use a disclaimer in their posts. :)

At the very least you should consider making sure that no walls are parallel to each other. Basically, no more than one corner at 90 degrees. That will improve the acoustics of the room quite a bit, even without spending money on treatment, because sound won't be bouncing back and forth and back and forth between the parallel walls like a ping pong ball. You'll also want to determine whether or not the build will require a building permit. I'm betting that the air conditioner in particular makes it a sure bet that a permit is required. I used to be a 12-year-old boy who was learning drums in the house. You're a very cool mom. 8)

mlp2006 wrote:

. . . besides we love hearing him play . . .

Aw, just admit it -- that's how you know he's not getting into any trouble, even when he's out of line of sight! ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

sharward wrote:

besides we love hearing him play . . .

Aw, just admit it -- that's how you know he's not getting into any trouble, even when he's out of line of sight! ;-) Wow, I didn't even catch that. :) That sounds like something a father would say.

Go for room volume - wide long and tall - the bigger the better. Build fabric cover mineral fiber wegdes into all the corners... like these: http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=535 Oversize the AC and tell that boy his momma rocks. :shock: That's be a great start anyway.

Scott's right, the bigger the room volume (cubic, that is) the better the sound. The reason for sloped ceilings is partly to control flutter echo (stand in an empty room sometime and clap your hands; the "boing" you get is extreme flutter, but if he want's to record in there later then even small amounts of this can mar the sound quality. If you were to build a room that's 10' wide by 14' tall by 17' long, the modal distribution (evenness of sound, basically) would be pretty smooth; if you use 24" centers on the framing and stay with a single layer of either plywood or sheet rock 1/2" thick, these panels will act as bass absorbers so less IN-room treatment will be necessary for good quality sound. If you could make those dimensions the AVERAGE, as in, build the long walls so they are NOT parallel by about 1 foot in ten, then slope the ceiling so it AVERAGES 14 feet (like, from 13 to 15 feet lengthwise), and finally build at least ONE of the shorter walls so it sticks INTO the room at its center by about 6-8 inches, then you would need only some corner absorption (like 4" thick mineral wool) across the corners to take care of most of the acoustics. This is generally what I meant by all the blather in the previous paragraph - if your pole barn is similar to ones we build around here, it's on 12 foot centers so this should fit into about 1-1/2 "bays"... Steve

You guys are great!!!!! All of this information is just what we needed, something functional, but simple. Don't think I need to check on building permits, since it is going to be built inside an already constructed barn that has been there for 6 years. Who's gonna know?? Good idea Scott, with this 100+ heat we have been having here I might need to oversize the AC. Knightfly, We had room set aside 10x20, but 10x17 it is, also thanks for the sketch. You are correct that the barn is built on 12' centers, but my husband framed in 2x4s 24"centers to support the horse stalls we built on one side. So we should be good to go to attach to this framing, yeah! I forgot to mention the floor is now dirt. I was thinking we could just use deck blocks, 4x4s and frame up a plywood floor and use short berber carpet. Also, we have electric installed currently. I had half the barn done on one circuit and half on a second. This room is going to fall between so he should be able to plug in equipment to two separate circuits so as to not overload. Any other suggestions as to electric? Any suggestion on a better construction for the floor? Ok, Keith maybe your are right, if I can hear him playing I know he is keeping out of trouble. I try to be a "cool" mom, and I am sure that will be harder as he gets older. He does love his music and we have told him we will back him 100% even if it leads nowhere in the future, but for his own enjoyment!! :D

mlp2006 wrote:

You guys are great!!!!! All of this information is just what we needed, something functional, but simple. Don't think I need to check on building permits, since it is going to be built inside an already constructed barn that has been there for 6 years. Who's gonna know??

You might be right, but I'm betting a permit is required for this. Really. At least find out for certain whether or not it's required by law. Make sure you point out that you'll be running A/C in the room. If the powers-that-be say it isn't necessary, then you'll know for sure, and I'll be happy to eat my words. ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

Ok, so this is what I found: " A Travis County Basic Development Permit is required for all development outside corporate city limits in Travis County. Development is defined as any man-made changes to improved or unimproved real estate, including but not limited to structures or other buildings, mining, dredging, filling, grading, paving, excavation or drilling operations." So would this apply to framing a room inside a building? Who knows? Will have contractor neighbor check just to be sure, but I am thinking not. I know where your concern is coming from though, being from California where you practically have to have a permit to plant a shrub in the yard ( :roll: we are Californians transplanted to Texas). :lol: Thanks. Mary

Electric - measure the voltage between the two "hot" leads on those circuits, and if it's ZERO it's OK to use both. If it's 240 volts, then ONLY use one of them for lights/HVAC and the OTHER for music gear. Keeps noise and shock potential down. Floor; should be fine, in Austin I'd put 6 mil black poly down on the dirt first THEN blocks THEN framing. Carpet - better without; carpet only absorbs high and high mid frequency, so won't give a balanced sound. Better to keep the floor bare (maybe a throw rug or two) and put more of that mineral wool absorbent here and there on the ceiling if the room has too much treble once it's complete. Do NOT, repeat NOT, put any inexpensive FOAM in the room for acoustic purposes; if in doubt, google the phrase great white fire and you'll understand... Steve

No carpet it is. That saves me a little money. My husband has a voltage tester so will send him off on that check. Totally forgot to mention that the lights are on a separate circuit and we were just planning on pulling the fixture down from the existing "ceiling" and set within the music room ceiling. Will that be ok? I remember the Great White Fire, bad,bad. Would not even consider foam. Thanks again. Mary

Should be fine; just keep all the music gear on one circuit, it doesn't draw that much anyway unless he's using huge amps and trying to blow out the walls :wink: The AC unit for that size place will probably draw about 10 amps, so it should be on the OTHER circuit you talked about (as in, separate breaker) - Inside the walls I'd use paper faced fiberglass insulation, enough so that it's slightly compressed by the wall panels (damps any ringing of the panels, helps sound inside, AND keeps the AC bill under control) If southern pine isn't the framing lumber of choice in your area, let me know what is and I'll recalculate spans for you... Steve

mlp2006 wrote:

Development is defined as any man-made changes to improved or unimproved real estate, including but not limited to structures or other buildings, mining, dredging, filling, grading, paving, excavation or drilling operations." So would this apply to framing a room inside a building? Who knows? Will have contractor neighbor check just to be sure, but I am thinking not.

I'm thinking "yes." Don't rely on your contractor neighbor to inform you about the law -- contact the building department yourself to get the straight facts.

mlp2006 wrote:

I know where your concern is coming from though, being from California where you practically have to have a permit to plant a shrub in the yard ( :roll: we are Californians transplanted to Texas). :lol:

You may be confusing planning with building. In my case I had to have my project approved by my city's planning department before it was then passed to the building department. I easily passed planning because it was all within the confines of my garage and I was still going to have space for two cars in my garage when I was done. As long as I left room for one car (a 10' x 20' area free and clear of any building materials/walls), I was OK. The building department makes sure that the plans are up to spec/code, and they issued me the permit. The plan check and permit fees include the mandatory inspections in my case. Just because you live in an area that is lax on planning issues doesn't mean they're lax about building issues. That's a common misconception. This isn't a "crazy California" thing... Although a lot of the codes are beefed up due to seismic concerns here (and rightfully so I might add). :) In the past I did a lot of things that required permits but I did not pull them, out of sheer ignorance. --Keith :mrgreen:

Thanks again Keith. I am gaining a wealth of information here!!!!!!! :) Will definately check into this and let you know what they tell me!! I was just teasing you about the "crazy California" thing since I am a native Californian and remember how strict they are on things like this. You ought to try building a horse barn there, we went through about 12 hoops to get that done about 10 years ago. It's funny you mention the fitting two cars in the garage thing. I told my son that as long as we can fit our 6 horses and feed in the barn he can have the 10x20 space for a music room. LOL

I moved from Santa Cruz to Oregon in 1978 partially because not only were permit requirements so strict, the bureaucratic gestapo there ALSO thought they could tell you IF you could build (after you already bought the place) WHAT it had to look like, WHEN you could build it, so I told 'em WHERE they could STICK it and left... Steve (Not advocating avoidance of local requirements, just hate "burro"crats in general)

Absolutely no problem on the "crazy California" thing. In fact, those were my words and not yours. ;-) And Steve's experience just serves to underscore the distinction between planning (design, neighborhood, community, environmental impact) vs. building (building codes, safety, seismic standards) beaurocrats. 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

I told my son that as long as we can fit our 6 horses and feed in the barn he can have the 10x20 space for a music room. LOL Careful; with 16 foot ceilings, sonny may have half your horses living on the second floor, and a ramp up to it :lol: Steve

They finally got use to us on our dirtbikes speeding by them, but it did take awhile. Hopefully he won't give them a heartattack!!!!!! :shock: Called the building permit department yesterday afternoon. They told me that as long as we were not adding on to the "outside" of the barn that we would not need a permit to build the room. They said they would consider it a "tack room" like most barns have here in Texas. So it looks like we are good to go. We are going to gather all materials and wait to start when the temps aren't in the 100s. Am going to take before, during, after pics. Will post them as I can. Thanks again to all. Mary Just for fun...here is a picture of my son with his cousin. My son is the one playing the sax. http://community.webshots.com/myphotos? ... ity=axEPRf

Assuming you told them that you're going to have A/C in the room, consider my words eaten! 8) Isn't it great to know you don't need a permit, as opposed to thinking you don't? :) Regardless, definitely adhere to all building codes. Not requiring a permit doesn't negate your need to follow them. It just makes it easier to get away with not following them... :roll: ;) --Keith :mrgreen:

When I pulled the permit for my studio, the inspector told me to sketch my plans on a piece of paper. I told him the plans were probably going to change and he said it wasn't a big deal. I told him everything I was looking to do and he kept saying stuff like "Oh that's no big deal. That should be fiiiiine. I'm sure you know what you're doing." I mean, I'm glad I got a permit, but the guy was so relaxed about it, it almost scared me to think what I could have gotten away with. Plus they've never followed up with me to ask if I need an inspection yet. That was 6 years ago... :) they probably lost my permit.

I don't know if this is typical around the country, but permits here expire after six months and each inspection extends the expiration date by another six months. Projects with expired permits are deemed to be "abandoned" and in order for inspections to continue (and, ultimately, to get a certificate of occupancy), one must apply for a permit again as though the project were new. This means that one must be in compliance with whatever code changes that may have gone into effect between the first permit being granted and the second permit being applied for. That can be a royal pain if there are significant code changes that apply to work already completed, even if past inspections were passed. :!: In my case, I went past my six months, since my slab work took me so long to complete. I was able to get a one-time courtesy extension of six months to keep the permit alive. In the unlikely event that I need any more six month extensions, it will cost me 50% of the original permit fee. Generally speaking, it is not the building department's responsibility to ask the permit holder if they're ready for inspections. Rather, it is the permit holder's responsibility to call and schedule them. If you get a permit and don't follow through with the inspections, the last of which earns you an official certificate of occupancy, then it's an illegal build. :roll: Applying for and getting the permit is only the first official step. You've got to follow through... --Keith :mrgreen:

I did tell them I was going to put a small AC unit in there and they really didn't seem to care. They did ask if this was going to be "occupied liveable space" for which I answered no. Although when the kid turns 16 in might be. :lol: Ok, Keith just what do you do for a living to have so much information about building permits etc.....??

Why, I'm a Web software developer for a health care company, which makes me the world's leading expert in building codes and permits... Yeah, right! :lol: Actually, I know what I know primarily by way of trial and error on my own project. I ran into some snags (particularly in the area of mechanical fresh air ventilation and stairway landings) and I had to change my plans to steer around them. I always knew my project was substantial enough to require a permit and I had planned early on to follow the rules -- especially since there's a chance that some noise may still be heard outside (probably at legal levels) and I wanted to be sure to have all my ducks in a row in the event that authorities are called. My neighbors are really cool, but you never know -- I lost all my cool neighbors and ended up with some uncool-to-average neighbors at our last house before we moved. --Keith :mrgreen: