Staining and ventilation

Hi all, After 3 (!!!) years, I'm finally finishing off the "little things" on our sound mixing stage. My question is about finish carpentry: Should I stain the oak trim for the control room window in-place, or to stain it in pieces off-site and then install it? My concern over the first method is whether or not the low-velocity HVAC system will be able to handle the fumes (will the stage reek for a month?), and my concern over the 2nd method would be me damaging the pieces on installation (highly likely). Any thoughts? PS: Steve, once this is done there will be pix......oh yes, there will be pix:)

One reason for staining individual pieces is the prevention of warping after it's installed; take a piece of cardboard (like the back of a writing tablet), lay it on top of a water glass, and spray the upper side (lightly) with any liquid (preferably water though) - notice that the edges immediately droop? This isn't just that the cardboard is wet and floppy, it's because one side is damp and expands, causing the piece to warp. The same happens with applying a finish; if you only apply on one side, there is a tendency for that side to become convex due to swelling. OTOH, if you intend to somehow hide any screws or nails, prefinishing can make this harder, unless this is ONLY cosmetic trim; in which case, (since not much strength would be required) colored finish nails can be bought that match almost any finish; these can be nailset and a small dab of wood-specific plasticised filler applied (the color of the nails isn't important when doing it this way, of course) If you ever intend to remove the glass to facilitate cleaning, then screws make more sense; I think that before I could give a very useful answer on this though, that I'd need to see a sketch of what you intend to do for trim, and maybe a pic of what's already there... Steve

Steve, I knew if I stayed up late there'd be a reply from The Knightfly, thanks!!!! Basically I'm duplicating the 3/4 plywood rough framing for the angled 4'x8' window with 1x10 oak, and then trimming around it (on the wall) with 1x4 oak. I'm so lame that I'm not even going to cover the poplar stops with oak; I was going to make black felt trim strips instead. And, as it's a single pane (don't start, please, it works fine for this particular application isolation-wise), both sides are accessible for cleaning. So, should I install the pieces and stain them in place, or, because of the warping possibility you mentioned, should I stain both sides of each piece and install them "pre-finished"? I was planning on judicious use of finish nails and carpenter's glue to attach the oak to the plywood......and what about the fumes? Will the HVAC take care of it in a few days? Thanks as always, Steve, I'll finish this thing yet! I took delivery of all the original drywall, insulation and 160 18ft steel studs June 29, 2003. I think it's time to finish 'er off, don't you?

Damn, Joe, you're almost as slow finishing projects as I am; but you probably have better excuses :lol: If you're concerned about fumes, and since it's better to finish all sides ANYWAY, I think I'd stain the pieces elsewhere; let 'em dry til they don't stink, and make with the glue and finish nails (especially since you don't have double panes to worry about) Although there are various "varnish stains" available for a "one coat" treatment, I've found I like it better to do a WIPING stain (assuming you don't already like the tone of the wood as is), then when that's dry a SATIN varathane looks pretty classy and is durable for cleaning, etc - just a thought, you may already have it worked out... Steve

Thanks Steve, I'll give it a go!

Isn't SATIN a duller finish that glossy? What advantage to you see to it? I like mine bright and shinny. BTW, I can confirm that if you stain in place, you're going to have a problem getting the smell out. Let alone the dangers from the fumes and all the VOCs. This is even more true if you don't have a fresh air supply on the HVAC system to actuallyl EXAUST the bad air and bring in new fresh air. len

Yeah, satin's duller than glossy; I also prefer photos that are NOT ferrotyped - depends on what you like, but I've always thought "shiny" looked less classy and that "satin" looked more like "understated elegance" - to each his own :wink: Steve

Yeah, high gloss always had a sort of "plasticky" look to it, IMHO. I'm actually planning to use a matte finish (i.e., satin) on my etched stained concrete floor. --Keith :mrgreen:

Thanks guys, satin it is, off-site it is, and I'll just be VERY careful! BTW, Len, how would I know if the HVAC has a "fresh air supply" or not? If I've just got the fan on, but not the AC (cooling), is that "fresh" (or what substitutes for it here in LA)? There's a total of 3 supplies and 2 returns on the stage, all the fancy right-angle boxes, low-velocity, etc. Can I "assume" , with that level of system, that I have a fresh air supply? Thanks in advance everyone:)

No, you can't. I have a 3.5 ton air conditioner in my house. The air handler (and furnace) in that attic sucks exhaust air from the hallway, blows it over cold coils, and then pushes it back into the house through the vents. The outdoor unit's job is to keep the coils in the air handler cold. It dissipates heat and keeps the refrigerant flowing. That's my very basic and probably very flawed layman's attempt to describe a typical air conditioner. More than likely, the way you get "fresh" air into your house is to open windows. Since studios typically don't have windows to the outside world, one must use mechanical ventilation to supply the room(s) with fresh air. Some air conditioning systems do have fresh air provisions, but from the description you gave us, I doubt yours has one. --Keith :mrgreen:

Hi Keith, Thanks for the reply. The mixing stage is in a 1930's movie theater, not a residence (definitely no windows in there). I'll check with my HVAC contractor and see what they installed, I seem to remember them mentioning "normally keeping just the fan on for air circulation".... , but they'll be able to tell me if there's a provision for fresh air as well :D Thanks again!

The air they are talking about is CIRCULATING, not exhanging. If you don't KNOW it has a fresh air supply, it more than likely doesn't. It's very rare in a normal installation. What I suggest you do is to use an ERV (or HRV depending on where you live) which will exaust the bad air but heat or cool the incoming fresh air on the way out. Some of these are 90+% efficient so you won't be throwing out cold (expensive) air. You'll cool the fresh air first so the energy you used to cool it in the first place isn't wasted. Kieth (aka Sharward) is using a FanTech model for his ventalation system so you might look through his thread for more info. len

Thanks Len, I'll check it out :)