Studio Layout... [updated]

Hello all.. Great site, and I wish I had more time to sit down and read through the archives, as studio construction is just cool stuff.. Anyway, a short intro, I'm a Recording Engineer for Piecework Productions in St. Petersburg, FL and we're in desperate need of a makeover.. We're going to start with the control room though, as that is where the biggest problem lies.. The studio is in a warehouse, sort of.. It's a row of garages that are about 23 feet wide, by 50 feet deep, I believe.. When I head over to the studio tomorrow I'll be grabbing actual dimensions, but these are close for now.. We also don't have tons of money to spend, so we're trying to use as much of the existing walls as possible.. Below is a layout I just drummed up in Fireworks in a few minutes.. Nothing is really exact, but its rather close.. The new control room is about 3 times as big as the current control room.. The current control room is basically the front of the new one.. we plan on knocking down the back wall and expanding out that way.. From what I've read on this site, and just general knowledge, I know that I want to avoid parallel surfaces, so i've angled one wall in, and may angle the back wall as well.. however, I left the left wall straight, as thats an exterior wall, and it wouldn't make sense to angle that wall, as we'd lose a lot of space.. There are pictures below of the current condition.. The desk will get angled so that it looks like the layout, and the computer monitors will be dropped down about 8 - 10".. Anyway, I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.. As you can see, we definitely will be doing some face lifting everywhere else, but we're starting with the control room.. Any and all comments are welcome and appreciated.. Also, a huge THANK YOU is in order for John as this is a great resource.. Thank you again.. eric

Your control room needs to be symmetrical at the front. to behind the mix position. Search around and you will see the standard this works right control room design. You can resize to fint your application. I know you are in major need of a better control room as that wall is almost ontop of the engineer. (horrible acoustics) And your future drum room, I'd splay out the side walls a bit more as they are parallel to their opposing walls. Bryan Giles

giles117 wrote:

Your control room needs to be symmetrical at the front. to behind the mix position. Search around and you will see the standard this works right control room design. You can resize to fint your application.

How's this??

giles117 wrote:

I know you are in major need of a better control room as that wall is almost ontop of the engineer. (horrible acoustics)

No kidding.. Basically, your back is against the wall if you just move the chair back.. and having 2 more people in the control room with you, you are extremely crowded and can't move.. and the acoustics, forget about it.. it sounds decent, but a little difficult to mix in at times.. it just wasn't built aesthetically at all either.. it was actually just a rehersal spot for a band, and then the owner of the space (in the band) decided to make a project studio, so he bought 1 ADAT... and the addiction took on steam, and its become a working studio.. I'm the second engineer here.. the first engineer and I have some differences in opinions.. such as in the 1st, 2nd, and 4th pictures.. there are 2 chairs in between 3 flaps of "acoustic" foam, and a large thing against the wall above them.. well, there is also a big thing on wheels that goes in front of where the chairs are, and that top comes down, and it's supposed to be an Iso chamber for guitars.. it's almost a good idea on paper, but it takes all the life out of guitars, because you can't mic them from a distance, and it bleeds like crazy; as there is no way to make it completely air tight.. yada yada, one of his creations that I'm just not into at all.. also the organization of the control room.. the BRC is all the way on the right, while everything that you are in need of doing while recording is on the left.. so, you're constantly walking back and forth.. and with the room being so small, with just one other person in there, you are constantly hopping over people, or trying to teach them how to do stuff, and hope they don't mess it up.. and the ADATs are all at floor level basically (under the patch bay), so to watch for any type of clipping, you can't stand back and look down, as you can't get that far back, so you almost have to sit on the floor to be able to watch them.. we are getting rid of the ADAT's anyway, going to Hard Disk recording @ 24bit, 96Khz, but that's a whole other can of worms :D :D We'll be rearranging everything in the desk, and angling in the sides inward (such as in the floorplan) and adding some more rack space under there as well, and angleing (it's too late to spell) everything upward about 15 degrees or so, so that it's easier to see and mess with.. but if anybody has any ideas about this, I'd be more than happy to hear these as well!! Thanks again!! eric

Hey - let's get things in scale!! this is the same space in scale - the drum kit is 8' wide - the lounge is 7' x 3' etc.etc. cheers john

on the other hand maybe this - also to scale :) cheers john

Wow, 2 plans.. Thanks John!! :D :D I think the first one is something like what we're looking to do.. The 2nd one is nice, but it would require a complete gutting of the entire thing, and we just don't have the time to do all of that.. Now, a question I have is.. You have the computer to the left of the engineer.. Now, we do mostly all of our mixing on the computer, do you or anyone else have a good plan for a desk that incorporates dual 19" monitors and the console?? I just know that when I'm mixing on the computer, I don't like to have the sound just coming from my right.. Just wondering how we could build something to have both the console and the monitors viewable.. right now, we have them over the console, on basically a bridge between the two end pieces of the desk.. the only problem with now, is that they are too high to see through the window.. we could lower them off of their swivel bases, and notch out the bridge to have them sit farther down.. but just wandering if anyone has some really crazy, cool idea for this.. thanks so much again!! eric

Take the elements in the room as a refernece. Not etched in stone. the main thing is the layout and design (floorplan) I Mix on the computer and all i did was buy a desk made for that purpose. I Use 2 - 17" Monitors My room is much smaller, but might give you some insight Bryan Giles http://www.johnlsayers.com/Studio/Pages/Giles.htm

Alright, I was thinking while I was at the beach today.. and here's one idea.. I have another, probably cheaper idea, which I'll draw up in the next little bit.. but, here's my idea.. Basically, it's a monster garage type lowering mechanism.. basically an electric winch, which hooks up to a 3 position switch.. UP - OFF - DOWN.. winch would probably run a couple of hundred.. which doesn't really fit in with our idea of trying to save $$ where we can.. but just throwing out ideas to maybe inspire something else.. I'll work on my next idea in a few minutes here.. on a side note, this design probably isn't feasible, but I'm just looking for something outside of the box.. eric

and here's my other design.. a more probable and affordable design. basically just utilizing 3 door hinges to give us a full 180 degree pivot.. and 2 supports on either side of the console.. the whole thing made of at least 3/4" MDF for rigidity and smoothness.. i'm sure there's more that I want to add about this, but I've got other things to do... let me know what you think.. obviously, the monitors would be secured to the base board very well.. eric

If you are planning on LCD Monitors, Ergotron makes monitor arms for that purpose. www.ergotron.com Bryan Giles

Well, we just got the 19" CRT monitors.. We went with them over LCD's because good quality large LCD's are still just entirely too expensive.. We were looking at 2 18" LCD's that had good contrast, sharp images, and a short delay and they were about 800 - 900 a piece.. We got top of the line 19" CRT's for much less, and opted for the flat tube.. We weighed the pro's and con's, and just decided that right now we couldn't spend $1900 on LCD's right now.. Especially with the way that CRT prices are dropping.. We got $200 in rebates on each monitor.. And the clarity on them is great!! And being 19" monitors, they are definitely large enough to be seen from a distance at large resolutions.. So, with all that being said, 2 LCD's would be great, but working within the budget of everything, we just couldn't do it.. Now, getting back to the hidden monitor thing.. It's going to be about $500 to do the winch thing, unless we can find a good used winch on ebay or somewhere used.. The only problem with the 2nd design is that the monitors aren't exactly light.. Now, looking at the ergotron website, they have monitor arms.. Maybe we could do something like that, and basically push them back to either side of the window, out of the way of speaker to ear path, and we could just pull them out when we're ready to use the Mac.. Hmmm.. Thanks for the link.. eric

Okay, so I couldn't resist the whole electric winch thing.. Thinking about it more, I came up with a quick drawing.. Being off 2days in a row has lended itself to making bad images of things that probably won't come to fruition.. ahhh, I enjoy the quality time I spent with my Mac and Fireworks.. :) :) eric

You have the computer to the left of the engineer..

I was only trying to give you an idea of scale - how you lay out your gear is your problem :):) cheers john

audioeric wrote:

Basically, it's a monster garage type lowering mechanism.. basically an electric winch, which hooks up to a 3 position switch.. UP - OFF - DOWN.. winch would probably run a couple of hundred.. which doesn't really fit in with our idea of trying to save $$ where we can.. but just throwing out ideas to maybe inspire something else.. I'll work on my next idea in a few minutes here.. on a side note, this design probably isn't feasible, but I'm just looking for something outside of the box.. eric

Eric, This would work very well for your situation, but they do cost $$$. http://www.outwaterhardware.com/catalog ... TAB%2D100A I have worked with this type of mechanism in the past. They are both very functional & cool.

Not to mention (yeah I am beating a dead dog) a pair of 17" LCD's has about the SAME viewing area as a 19" CRT for only $300 each. So for what you'd spend on this winch thingy, you just bought 2 LCD's the Screen rex for a 17 18 or 19" LCD is STILL only 1280x1024 so you don't lose out. And finally, the most important aspect of this... LCD's will not cause the Chronic Neck pain a flickering Monitor will cause with extended viewing at a High resolution. Bryan Giles Tiger Direct has 17" LCD with 500:1 CD, etc... for $299.00 Work Smart, Not Hard.

Thanks Barefoot, I didn't know such things actually existed.. I was looking at building the contraption from scratch!! DOH.. and giles... Our 19" CRT's are actually 18.5" viewable area, unlike most cheaper CRT's which are usually an inch to an inch and a half smaller than their advertised size.. the LCD's are exactly the size they say.. With these 19's I'm running 1600x1200 @ 135Hz.. I've done some 5 - 6 hour mix sessions with little eye strain.. john: DOH!! :D :D I was having a blonde moment, but also wasn't sure if there was a special reason for it as well.. SO, I figured, I'd go ahead and ask the stupid question :) :) Thanks again, everyone... eric (no pictures for this post)

The Eye strain wasn't the issue. It has been proven that long viewing sessions in front of computer monitors lends to Chronic Neck Pain. Doctors are making tons of money treating these issues. Bryan Giles I have a few friends who learned the hard way. Spending time in the Doctors office because of their CRT's 18" LCD's are going for 379 at Tiger Direct.... http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... &CatId=174 and 19" LCD's are going for 499 at Toger Direct http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... &CatId=170

just an update on the design stage.. we just changed the ISO booth.. instead of going with 2, we decided to cut into the green room area, and make a larger one.. we'll probably make that more "dead" and keep the bigger area more live.. also, the ceiling looks like a ruffled potato chip, except it's metal with metal rafters.. now, right now its completely exposed, except for a 12' x 12' slab of wood with rigid fiberglass on it thats attached to the rafters in the middle of the room.. (about 3 foot from real ceiling).. Now, my idea was to make another one of those, to extend that all the way across, and angle one down some, and keep the other flat.. just stagger them a bit.. so that it would look like this.. sideview topview Would this help with any wierd reflections we could be getting from up there?? I guess my logic on this is it would keep waves from bouncing weirdly off of rafters and the ceiling and then coming back down.. and we're going to try to keep the lower 9' of the room decently live, and use a laminate wood flooring, with some area rugs to control liveness.. as well as bass traps (poss. cylindrical, homemade at any rate) Thoughts, objections?? Thanks again, you guys ROCK!!! eric

In the control room, Of course you are islating the ceiling from the other room or are you using this are to run duct work for Air conditioning?? I would. Secondly, I'd put in a ceiling to seal that off and then treat the inside accordingly. In the live room, I'd create a dropped ceilign with the bass hangers as you have show and install 1-1/2" Mineral wool in that dropped ceiling. Keeping the floor live and the ceiling dead. Still keeping the bass hangers in the ceiling. Hope I was descriptive enough. I just hate the sound of a metal gridded ceiling and I have heard the exposed ones with major bass trapping. They still sound like crap (to my ears) We have a major studio in my area where the large live room was designed as such. They bass trapped it like you have in your drawing and I still dispised the sound of the room. Bryan Giles

Yeah, the control room and ISO booth will actually have a ceiling that will isolate them, as will the green room area.. and all the A/C stuff will be running from the room next to all this.. this is the end unit in an industrial park type place.. we own this unit, and the next one.. So, all the A/C stuff will be in the next one, and run through the rafters to get there.. Maybe we'll go ahead and try the dropped ceiling, while keeping all of that stuff behind it, like I believe you were saying.. thanks again :D :D eric

I updated the control room layout.. any opinions on this anyone?? The computer monitors will be recessed and angled, probably around 50 degrees or so, assuming 90 degrees would be normal, with the bottom of the viewable area about 1" above the top of the desk.. and behind the salad bar thats behind the mixing position it extends like a breakfast bar so that seats can fit underneath of it, and people could use this area for taking notes or laying things out, etc.. the 2 desks in the back of the room will be for the 2 engineers at the studio to be able to use and have some personal stuff in.. the very bottom wall (exterior wall) has a garage door on it, a commercial roll up kind, so thats why the very back walls of the control room don't touch that.. mp = mouse pad mm = Motor Mix (8 fader automation for pro tools) LSRs = JBL LSR32's Mid-Field Monitors EVENT = Event 20/20 Near-Fields and all the rack space stuff will be about 30" max, and we won't be using the bottom 12", and they will be angled back at about 30 degrees.. I think that's all the details as of right now.. Let me know what you all think.. Ideas.. opinions.. also, anyone know a good 3d program I could use to get some 3d views of all of this?? THANKS!!! eric

I'd soffit mount those LSR's Mackie seems like it will be a little tight where you are placing it (32) I'd loose the desk on your rear right wall. Just makes the area seem a tad congested. I Assume the red round things are tube bass traps? Why not just use the space behind your rear, right rear and left rear walls and put in bass hangers. And with the depth of the studio, make the left and right rear walls slot resonators. Just my .50 Bryan Giles

Giles, thanks again, I'll try some of that, and repost.. the Mackie 32 will probably be rotated a bit more, so that it doesn't seem so tight.. we just figured that we don't have to have the consoles together, as the add on 24 is usually just for reverb's and stuff like that anyway.. we only have 32 channels that go through the snake, so actually getting things to "tape" above channel 32 involves patching over to a different tape input anyway.. blah blah.. so, moving along, I'll work out some more.. any ideas on how to make slot resonators?? how about what should we use for walls in there?? thanks again eric

some times I brain fart, what had you planned to do with those walls (the slanted ones? ) Bryan Giles

the front slanted walls.. well, the right side I couldn't do anything with, because on the other side is an ISO booth.. so, we'll probably mount the LSR's in soffits, but they won't be all the way to the floor.. more like pods on the ceiling that angle down towards the front wall.. with the rear, I'm pretty much open to ideas.. I had thought we'd just make them regular walls with maybe some rear absorbtion back there, such as the DIY plans on this site.. what would you suggest?? thanks again eric