Building walls with GLASS!?

I got hold of a section of this glass. (actually a full cube) :twisted: http://varu.byggbokhandeln.com/sartryck/pdf/Vitrum.pdf it's the one called "Luxsite mötesrum" (mötesrum=lounge). it's said to be between 34-40dB (depending on thickness, the one I can get is 10mm). Do you guys think it's possible to take out the section with the door and put it up for the outer wall and then put in another "leaf" of that at a distance, with air, on the inside? I guess it has to be really airtight and all, but just wanted to know if anyone had any experience with building walls of glass? best andreas

it looks like it would just be one very reflective surface. and wouldn't alow for any apsorbtion via insulation behind it... the stc makes it sound like it'd be great for isolation, however controlling and taming the actual sound waves needs treatment. so you would have very little sound leakage between rooms but one (probabally) awful souning room. It looks really cool though. if you built a whole wall, how would you put outlets in it? are you speaking of building a whole room like this or just the window areas? also you would have to be very creative with hiding the cable runs;)

I'd be concerned about condensation... Both on the surface of the glass inside the rooms, and (worse) on the surface of the glass between the rooms... :roll:

Well, if I build something that's a little bit like Rod's window design, I still have room to "ventilate" the air inbetween the glass panels. OR I just buy one heck of a lot of silica-gel bags and fill the bottom with it :wink: the size of these would not be larger than 2.2x2.5 meters and I've actually been to studios with bigger windows than that. So what I wanted to know (basically) is; if a glasspane has 40dB reduction (I know, I know it's not measured with real low bass) is 10mm thick and you put another one 2" away from the other; seal the edges.. and then what, will this actually work? If I compare to window build's I often see that people use two different thicknesses for the two glass panels. Is that what I need? or is it really not necessary? a

ok so basically you're asking about using the glass as windows. Your topic was misleading because you were speaking of glass walls. I haven't read much on the topic of window builds. i would guess though that the 2 different thicknesses of glass would be that so each panel had a different resonant frequency. That's a good idea, it would be similar to building the two leaves of your wall from different materail composition and plies of material.

well, I AM building the windows from floor to ceiling, which is a wall, no? The glasswall I already have is 2.5x2.5m with a big fat door and frame in the centre (check out the .pdf) and I have more sections of glass for building the second wall and it'll fit on the inside of the doorframe at about 1½" separation/airgap. What I need to know is if it's worth doing...the glass is f'n heavy so it would be nice to know that it's not entirely pointless putting it in there and I ONLY get 40dB reduction and nothing more with a second layer of glass and air.. but hey, I guess I just have to do it and try it out and then smash it to pieces if it's not working. :evil: a

AndreasB wrote:

...if a glasspane has 40dB reduction (I know, I know it's not measured with real low bass) is 10mm thick and you put another one 2" away from the other;

I'm not sure a 2" gap is going to do much for you (hopefully the experts will correct me if I'm wrong). My windows are 8" and 12" apart (drum room and control room respectively). Part of the reason for the gap is to allow one side of the glass to squish the air before it sets to other pane in motion. The more air you have, the easier it is to squish.

blue642 wrote:

t looks like it would just be one very reflective surface. and wouldn't alow for any apsorbtion via insulation behind it...

Blue, I think you are misunderstanding the purpose of the insulation in the walls. As I understand the physics (which I don't), insulation doesn't really absorb anything when it's IN the walls (as opposed to ON the walls like an absorber panel). It's purpose is to dampen the vibration of the wall and smooth out the response of the room. If you imagine hitting a cymbal and then touching it very lightly with your finger, you know it stops pretty quickly even with just the lightest touch. Your finger is not absorbing the sound, just making it harder for the cymbal to vibrate and make the sound itself. len

len-morgan wrote:

I'm not sure a 2" gap is going to do much for you (hopefully the experts will correct me if I'm wrong).

Good conclusion. The further the better (is weakening spring) to lower resonance as much as possible.

okok, so I need a lot more than 2". errr not really familiar with inches and feet and such...what would a normal partition between walls be in the metric system? a

Type 2 INCHES TO CM into Google. :-)

well, MY walls have a 2" airgap and I was told that was going to be enough.. but 12"..geez that's way to much, wouldn't something less be sufficient? I can of course tilt the glass in two directions (less at the bottom and more at the top). but will that really make any difference..? I know that tilting the windows will take away reflections of light so it is easier to see through and that of course the frqeunce withing that airspace is not constant if it varies in length top-to-bottom..but is it really worth doing? a

AndreasB wrote:

MY walls have a 2" airgap and I was told that was going to be enough..

How are you measuring the gap? If you have a "standard" 2"x4" stud wall, and you put drywall on both sides you get AT LEAST 3 1/2". You measure from the back of one mass (drywall) to the back of the ajacent mass to get your gap.

AndreasB wrote:

.. but 12"..geez that's way to much, wouldn't something less be sufficient?

Sufficient for what? Less gap = less isolation. Plain and simple. You can play with the variables to change things, for example, adding another layer of drywall would be the same as a increasing the gap a couple of inches (and I DON'T know the exact number of inches of gap/layer of drywall I'm just making an example). It's all about comprimise. We ALL comprimise in every design we do, every decision we make. In my case, I would have loved to use 2"x8" studs in ALL my walls but it would have consumed too much floor space. Floor space was more important to me and since I'm in a free standing cement block building, I had isolation to "give" without hurting anything so that's how I went. You really have to approach this like any other kind of engineering. What are your specs? What MUST you meet to make the project worth doing? What would be nice but you COULD live without if it meant the difference between doing the project and abandoning the dream. If you are in an apartment, you'll probably have isolation as the most important requirement. You could trade off a little space to get more isolation but there is a point where you won't have enough space to be useable. Do this process FIRST. List your problems, desires, wants, needs and prioritize them, then make a design that meets them - or find it's not possible to meet them and start trading off until you either have something you're happy with or determine that your goals just can't be done for the time,money,expertise, etc. that you are willing to give to this project.

AndreasB wrote:

can of course tilt the glass in two directions (less at the bottom and more at the top). but will that really make any difference..?

Yes, it WILL make a difference. It will make things worse. Your problem with a glass wall (or any wall for that matter) is not resonance but isolation. Don't get me wrong, there ARE resonanace issues but 99% of the time, you are putting up a wall (of any type) to isolate one place from another. If that wasn't the goal, why build the wall in the first place? From personal experience, relections of light aren't a big deal and aren't that hard to handle. If you look at my studio build diary, you can see the big windows I put in (double window panes) and while I can see my reflection a little (if I focus on the glass instead of what's on the other side of it), just adjusting one of the lights in the control room to not point directly at the glass solved most of the problem. Personally, I prefer to have just a little reflection because someone coming into my studio will realize quicklly that there IS a piece of glass there! If they didn't see something, they might try and put their hand through it to set down a drink on the space between the panes! Hope that helps a little. len

How are you measuring the gap? If you have a "standard" 2"x4" stud wall, and you put drywall on both sides you get AT LEAST 3 1/2". You measure from the back of one mass (drywall) to the back of the ajacent mass to get your gap.

Oh, I measure the airgap between leafs, or in this case the gap between the two glasspanels..here's two pictures explaining things. edit: In this case.. but I WAS referring to the airgap ie. the gap between the studs/insulation in the two walls. The door has to be connected to both leafs, I know that's bad but I can't fit in an extra door and the already fitted in the glass is airtight and 40dB classed.. so the 60mm or >2" airspace is between those two, I can't fill that with insulation for obvious reasons but is there any way to calculate these walls TL or STC ?? is it going to be worth it? THAT's what I wanted to know! and talking of standard 2x4"'s doesn't translate to any standards in Europe. Standards would be 3.5433071"x1.7716535" (90x45mm) slightly smaller than 4x2 or the smaller stud's 2.7559055"x1.7716535" (70x45mm) .. crazy, I know but that's the standards around here.