Wall construction help

I have a titan shed in which I want to build a studio what would be the best wall construction for me to use to get best performance? I will have three seperate rooms but space is a issue the entire area of the building is w7m x L9m xH2.7

Sorry, I'm not familiar with "titan" sheds - can you describe its construction better? For some ideas on what helps, check out the very top thread in this forum - thanks... Steve

Hi Steve, my shed is steel with 75 x 50 mm metal framework, it is on a concrete slab. I am in a rural area there is not alot of noise around except for a few cows and neighbours are a fair distant away. but I just don't want the chance of police to come knocking at 1am in the morning. I wanted to base my studio of John Sayers corner design.

Oh my :shock: -- that's not a good start if isolation is a primary concern. :( That outer leaf is going to have to be heavier. In order for the outer leaf to be heavier, the framework needs to be stronger. In order for the framework to be stronger.................... Is it too late to tear it down and start again, salvaging the concrete slab? Yes, I'm serious. Perhaps others (Steve specifically) has other ideas of how you can salvage the structure... :roll: Are those windows I'm seeing? :shock: How thick is the slab? Did you/they compact the soil prior to the pour? What kind of base material is below the slab (e.g., crushed rock)? Is there plastic moisture barrier below the slab? How deep is the perimeter (footings)? Is it reinforced with steel or wire mesh or fibermesh? If the answers to these questions aren't positive, then maybe the slab can't be salvaged either. :roll: I'm sorry to be a downer about this, but if disturbing neighbors is a dealbreaker for you, then you deserve nothing less than this level of brutal honesty. This is "tough love." We all want you to succeed.

Holy crap Keith - talk about bumming the guy out!!! Look into John's studio he did at "Left Bank". (studio's under construction page) This was done in an old shed and he ignored the outer leaf totally, attached a layer of 16mm plasterboard to the inside frame and then built new walls inside the building with another layer of plasterboard. I also beleive he is doing another studio at the moment this way. In some cases its totally possible to have a triple leaf wall and still get "fit for purpose" isolation out of the walls if the outside leaf is not airtight and flimsy. The tin they use on the outside of these sheds is both the above in my experience. Compromise in most cases is required in this "home studio" game unless you are starting from scratch or it's your business.(read unlimited $$) There is no way this guy is going to rip down his slab or shed. What we need to do is find some way to help him based around the results he is trying to acheive and his budget. JG

OK... Well, I just took a look at the Left Bank stuff and I see what you mean, John. However, the difference here is that he's building from scratch -- Left Bank's barn already existed, and they pretty much ignoring the outermost leaf. If one is going to start from scratch -- a luxury that I wish I had with my own project, and which many here wish they had as well -- one should ideally aim for the best possible outcome with the least amount of investment, effortwise and moneywise. Starting by building a steel shed, which is designed primiarily to just keep stuff dry with less than zero consideration for acoustic isolation, and with a concrete slab that was probably engineered (if at all) for minimal weight, unlike a commercial building or a house, is not a wise plan at all. Some sheds are constructed conventionally with lumber. That would have been a better option in this case. I did leave an out: "Perhaps others (Steve specifically) has other ideas of how you can salvage the structure" -- because I do believe that salvage is the correct term for this. Perhaps I'll change my belief as this thread develops. This is truly an area that I hope to be wrong. Nevertheless, we need to encourage people to do all their development and planning and design first, before building anything. Otherwise, it's nothing more than making it up as we go along, and the results of such an approach are bound to disappoint. --Keith :mrgreen:

Thanks heaps john i'll check that studio build out. The shed was not originally built for a studio it was offered to me by a good mate to build one in and so I'm very thankful I have anything at all.

Deeds, It would be well worth using John's phone service on this one. He will sort you out no problem - well worth the investment. I think he is doing a garage studio somewhere in Aussy at the moment that is probally similar size and similar external construction. Give him a call JG

We all should have friends who are so kind. 8) However, I still have serious doubts about that shed being a sufficient starting point for your project. That shed is intended to basically be a sturdy metal tent. It may become a great place to store stuff, but I can't see it becoming an appropriately built studio where isolation is a high priority. Sometimes we have dreams of making something out of a space that just isn't appropriate for the mission -- at least, not economically so. I suppose anything is possible -- it's just a matter of determining how much money and effort one is willing to throw at it. But when it can be determined that it's more expensive to design around an inferior structure than to abandon it and seek an alternative, more suitable one, we owe it to ourselves to admit that. Again, maybe I'm wrong, and I welcome having that be proven to me. :) If that is the case, then we will all learn something. 8) No matter what path is chosen, I wish the very best, as always. :) --Keith :mrgreen: P.S.: You'll want to resize that photo, as per John's dire warning.

Hi Deeds. I've got a shed very similar to yours which I'm currently ripping the interior out of (it was used as living accommodation by the people who built my house). Sounds like I'm a bit more fortunate than you in that I haven't got a neighbour within 1km and I'm a good distance from outside noise such as the road and the kangaroos hopping round the place! Seems to me that you're going to be able to achieve "some" isolation from the room within a room concept and from whatever insulation you decide to fit to your walls. I suppose the key point is how much noise isolation you need to achieve to appease the neighbours or the local constabulary. Hopefully you can reach some compromise which will allow you to continue with your project. Keith - is your concern with this structure primarily from a noise isolation perspective or do you have other concerns about using this kind of shed as the home for a studio? Cheers, Glenn

Keith is suffering from being beaten over the head by yours truly, regarding the "evil" effects of more than two leaves of mass in any sound containment structure - and he's right, ideally a SERIOUS sound containment structure would have two, and only two, leaves of mass separated by an insulation-absorbed air gap that's as wide as can be had - Sorry for the delay getting back to this, twixt all the alligators in my life some kind soul with strep throat apparently decided to breathe on me a couple weeks ago, so I've been pretty useless (OK, maybe not pretty but definitely USELESS) for a while... If your concrete slab is thick/strong enough, and if you need serious sound isolation, you can build two MORE leaves of mass INSIDE the steel skin; basically, you would put your outer mass as close to the skin as possible and make it as heavy as possible, then move in at least 1/3 meter and do it again. This for the ceiling as well, the object being (exclusive of the tin shell) two heavy masses separated by an air gap, with the inner mass damped by thick insulation batts. Outer and inner of these should have NO CONTACT with each other - any deviation from this will seriously reduce the isolation ability. There will still be a resonance (weak isolation at a particular frequency) caused by the tin/air/mass (going from outside to inside) but if this can't be helped, placing the outer mass as close to the tin as possible will raise this frequency so your OTHER, REAL sound walls can more easily contain it. (The lower the frequency, the harder it is to stop) To further compensate for the extra leaf, using more mass in either or both NEW walls will help. (Don't confuse the term "wall" with a typical house wall, which is already normally a mass-air-mass construct by itself) REad the first 2-3 topics in the REFERENCE section again and this should become clearer; HTH... Steve

Of course, that all assumes that the slab is strong enough and that the ground was prepped properly for such a HEAVY two leaf inner structure. There's no evidence thus far that is the case. --Keith :mrgreen:

Thought I just said that... :?

Not disagreeing with you, Steve... I'm just pointing out that ground prep is every bit as important as the concrete itself... And what we don't know, we shouldn't assume. :)