Redoing my control room

Hi all, my first post here in the Acoustic forum. I do have a small project studio for personal use and was thinking about goin' back to commercial and redoing the entire studio. Out of luck a friend of mine asked to join our two small facilities and build a new studio (mid-sized) whitin 18-24 months (it's quite a long time but he has a lot of stuff to sort out). Anyway, back to topic, in the meantime I'd like to go over my room and see if I can improve it a bit. The studio used to be a commercial facility but after some problems (personal and financial) I shut it down and only recently went back to it and started working again. I do have some panels in the control room (DIY) with insulation inside but I still have lots of problem down with lower frequencies. So, here I attached a picture and sketchup file of the emtpy room and would like to get some inputs from you. I was looking around for some acoustic treatment on the web and even if there's a lot of products ready to buy, after shipping them over here the costs rise up to the sky so I'd like to do a bit of DIY again. I lurked around quite a bit and found a lot of infos but I'm still very skeptical about my knowledge on acoustic matters. Well, that's it I think. If you're willing to help I'll very much appreciate. Thanks. J.

So, here's a first attempt at doin' something. I started with the corners and afetr looking at Mr.Sayers advices I decided to put some corner traps in all four corners of the room. I decided to have them 2.4m tall instead of the full room height in order to put some light on top of them. Mr.Sayers says that the variables in ths design are: depth from the wall, the width of the slats and the width of the gaps between the slats. So I figured that I could increase the depth from wall if I want to. I still have some 30cms to the window. Anyone care to comment?

Judah - check out this thread http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5457 download the .skp file and copy the control room across to your room and make it fit. cheers john

Ok, this is an update to the front wall. I put three panels (8" deep) and decided to make the entire structure in one piece (both corner traps and three panels will create a "new" front wall). Suggestions?

John Sayers wrote:

Judah - check out this thread http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5457 download the .skp file and copy the control room across to your room and make it fit. cheers john

Thanks John, I download the SKP file but there is one big difference in my room, I got two windows right at the sides of the mixing point. I was thinking about putting some side panels right inside the window gap at mixing stage and put them on the floor while I'm tracking (to have some visual communication with the musicians). Do you think it will be an OK solution? Uh, and what about the ceiling? I read thru Kendale post and his cloud seems the perfect solution to me.....

Extend the windows into the room on the side walls by adding another window frame at the angle. It'll look great. Do try the soffit mount in the design. Here's what Scott sent me when he fired up his speakers. Hi John Have just fired up the KRK RP8 rockets and sounds fantastic the bottom end is low and even l . Infact both rooms sound very even throughout freq range. I will send you some final pics when I set-up up rest of gear. Scott BTW is a very experienced sound engineer. he's sent the pics, here's a couple.

John Sayers wrote:

Extend the windows into the room on the side walls by adding another window frame at the angle. It'll look great. Do try the soffit mount in the design. Here's what Scott sent me when he fired up his speakers. Hi John Have just fired up the KRK RP8 rockets and sounds fantastic the bottom end is low and even l . Infact both rooms sound very even throughout freq range. I will send you some final pics when I set-up up rest of gear. Scott BTW is a very experienced sound engineer. he's sent the pics, here's a couple.

Thanks John, Scott's pictures looks great. I'm still having some difficulties regarding the triangle in which the monitors and ears fall. I understand that the mixing position should be around 38% back from the front wall (that means around 185cms in my case), but after adding the whole front wall do I have to move the mixing position back by the same amount as the wall depth or the "false" wall doesn't matter as far as room dimensions? Thanks again fro your help.

This is the standard layout for stereo speakers. You sit inside the triangle. cheers john

Hi John, thanks for your help. Here's an update. Am I on the right track?

Ok, I think I finally understood how to fit the damn triangle in room. Anyway, I made some adjustment and I think the soffit should work with this setup. The side panels will be there at mixing stage only. I'm still concerned with the rear wall and the rest of teh side wall. Anyone care to comment? John? :D

Aloha judah, Looking good. :wink: How about a couple of rear absorber panels on the rear side walls and on either side of the door, floor to ceiling, to stop any reflections coming from the back walls? You may want to consider treating the control room side of the door as well. Do you have any treatment planed for the ceiling over your mix position? Aloha 8)

kendale wrote:

Aloha judah, Looking good. :wink: How about a couple of rear absorber panels on the rear side walls and on either side of the door, floor to ceiling, to stop any reflections coming from the back walls? You may want to consider treating the control room side of the door as well. Do you have any treatment planed for the ceiling over your mix position? Aloha 8)

Aloha Kendale, thanks for your help. I really enjoyed your room and your thread was very interesting. In fact I'd like to put some sort of cloud like yours over my head. I have around a dozen panels in my studio that I could join together and create the cloud. I was already thinkin' of putting some sort of panels on the back wall too, on both sides of the door. I do have a questions for you. How was your monitor stand done? I see you made a beautiful job with your room, I'd really like to turn my room out like your yours.

OK, here's the latest update. I put corner traps and wall units on the back wall and some sort of cloud on the ceiling. In the second picture I removed the left wall so it's easier to see what's goin' on with the clouds.

I almost forgot to tell that I do have two different sets of monitors: Tannor Reveal Passive and JBL LSR28P (the latter are goin' to be soffit mounted).

Aloha judah,

I really enjoyed your room and your thread was very interesting.

Glad to hear that is was helpful. :D

I was already thinkin' of putting some sort of panels on the back wall too, on both sides of the door.

Good idea. :wink: Depending on how "live" you prefer your room, another set of absorber panels on both walls of the rear half of your room will help cut down any reflections going on back there as well as the the panels on the back wall.

How was your monitor stand done?

The monitor stand was constructed out of mdf material, with the height determined by positioning the center of the woofer at my ear height. Depending on your flooring/weight considerations, you may want to consider something with a little more mass (metal stands; sand filled; concrete block.) I added a rubber pad to monitor stand for decoupling. Its a small, but definite improvement in low end response. Aloha 8)

Aloha Kendale, thanks a lot for your help. I finally completed the corner trap design (with soffit mount for my JBL LSR28P) and here it is. I attached two photos to show what the stand looks like and the fineshed corner traps with bezel and bottom panel. To position the monitor I followed knightfly calculation (room height * 43/46%) and end up with this position. My only concer is the rear port of the monitor. Do I have to put some sort of plug and close it? And more, what is the minimum recomended distance from monitor to corner trap rear wall? Thanks again for your help guys.... J.

BTW, I switched back to Solidworks 'cause it calculate the aprox weight of the entire structure. A very nice feature..... My corner trap should weight around 80Kgs without rockwool and monitor, just the bare structure in itself. Top and bottom are 25mm, sides are 18mm (standard measures here in Europe).

Sorry to be such a pest but I'm tryin to have my min dcompletely ready before buyin' all the material and starting assembly. I was looking at the "Small Studio" SKP file John posted, and I noticed that in this case the monitors are flush mounted but completely isolated inside a box. The same goes with the SAE design, they enclose the monitor inside a box and the corner trap become a completely different matter. On countrary I noticed that Kendale just put his monitors inside the corner trap and they are firing sounds inside the trap too. Suggestions? :roll: And what about hangers? Do I have to fill up the corner traps with hangers of some sort? :?

Aloha judah,

My only concer is the rear port of the monitor. Do I have to put some sort of plug and close it?

Aaronw is using the same speakers you are, and has not indicated that plugging the port is necessary. You can check out his thread here: http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=839 and perhaps pm him to get a more in depth answer. Please be sure to post his response for the rest of us, if you do. Thanks! :wink:

what is the minimum recomended distance from monitor to corner trap rear wall?

Here's the info I was given way back when:

Monitors should NOT sit on the console but behind, placed on heavy decoupled stands - console placement causes early reflection problems in most cases, unless the console is slanted down in front a LOT. Distance to wall behind speakers will change response drastically - there is a wall bounce calculator on the Acoustics forum that's fun to play with (needs Excel) Moving either speakers or your head by as little as an inch or two can sometimes make drastic changes in response, due to modal peaks and dips; here's a useful calculator for figuring this.

Here is the new way to get the Harman Mode Calculator, for which you'll need Excel running on your computer - First, go to http://www.harman.com/about_harman/tech ... rship.aspx Then click on "White papers" - This brings you to a page where you can either read their papers, or click on "Calculators" - you want "Calculators". Then, click on "Read" - it will bring you to a page where you can download either of the two calculators offered, one of which is the mode calc.

I cut and paste the length and width graphs alongside a scaled room diagram (after scaling them to the same size as the walls) and draw red lines across the room where peaks and nulls are, then green lines where there are NO peaks or nulls - anywhere there's a green intersection is a candidate for speaker or head placement, keeping in mind you need plane symmetry in a mix room (head in center side to side) and an equilateral triangle for speaker/head placement (or at least an Isoscelese triangle)

I was looking at the "Small Studio" SKP file John posted, and I noticed that in this case the monitors are flush mounted but completely isolated inside a box. The same goes with the SAE design, they enclose the monitor inside a box and the corner trap become a completely different matter. On countrary I noticed that Kendale just put his monitors inside the corner trap and they are firing sounds inside the trap too. Suggestions?

One of the main reasons I went with a stand approach was the fact that I had no woodworking skills and was the easiest solution for me at the time, as well as trying to address the air flow/cooling requirements of an active monitor system. Were I to do it all over again, (and I do hope I get the chance to :D) I will attempt the boxed approach as described in the SAE site. That being said, the sound and performance of the current design is far exceeding my hopes and expectations. I would suggest perhaps searching the forum for solutions others have taken and find one that suits your skills and peace of mind.

And what about hangers? Do I have to fill up the corner traps with hangers of some sort?

I remember reading a post describing the theory behind having bass hangers as coming into use when pro studios started mixing at high levels which generated huge amounts of bass response through the usually large main monitors. While I am finding that I am able to mix at much lower levels now (70-85 db) I did install hangers in the lower front wall section. There are several posts that recommend filling the corner trap with insulation, that it will give you a smoother response overall, and the main reason for not doing that is the expense. One thing to keep in mind is, if you are refering to the soffit where your speakers will be mounted, be sure to allow for adequate air flow and cooling. Hope this helps, Aloha 8)