Hi all.
I know this has been covered on a thread here but the photos that John linked to were not very clear on what to do here.
So how exactly do you tip up an inside out wall? When you already have a ceiling in place how can you fit an inside out wall under it?
Also can you really lift up an inside out wall with 2 layers of sheatrock?
Any ideas, recommendations and comments on the subject would be welcome...
;)
Thanks!
Inside out walls...
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 6223.
Do you have an existing thread showing what you're doing, and where everything is in your space? That may help with more accurate answers.
Also, with a standard 2x4 stud wall it only takes 1/4" shorter wall than the floor-ceiling distance in order to be able to tip the wall into place; holding it there will depend on the REST of your construction and a few other things.
Whether you can tip a double-rocked frame into place depends on how long the wall is, how many friends you have, how many "wheaties" have been consumed, etc - generally a 12 foot section of 8 foot tall wall with two layers of 5/8 rock on ONE side will weigh about 550 pounds; but you only have to lift HALF that weight, since the other end will be resting on the floor; plus, as you lift the wall "gets lighter" because of the angle. Easiest way to do this is to use a couple of flat pry bars (google "stanley wonder-bar" for one) and start lifting the wall with those; as you can, put a couple of 2x4 blocks under the edge of the frame, then you can get your hands under the frame and lift. Using two people, each one only has to lift 140 pounds; if you have THREE people, each only lifts about 100 pounds, and it gets LIGHTER as you lift.
IF you run a heavy bead of caulk right where the edge of the frame meets the floor (assuming the wall is where it's gonna be) and another bead 4" away from that, when you tip the wall up it will rest in the caulk. With this type wall, you should then caulk ALL the studs and horizontal framing members where they meet the gypsum board, since you can't get at the other side of the wall to do this.
If you link to your other threads or post a pic or floor plan, etc, I can help more... Steve
Check out the studio construction page on my site.
www.peelproductions.net.nz
There are some photo's of the inside out walls getting built and lifted into place.
It's not really that hard to do, you just need a good builder and a few photos to show him/her what you are trying to do.
Any questions, let me know.
JohnG
Thanks John. Actually the quality of the builder is in question... because I am the builder..... LOL So what is that blue rubber on the top of the wall plate? Thanks again.Check out the studio construction page on my site. www.peelproductions.net.nz There are some photo's of the inside out walls getting built and lifted into place. It's not really that hard to do, you just need a good builder and a few photos to show him/her what you are trying to do. Any questions, let me know. JohnG
Hi Steve I posted a thread a bit ago but I think it was during your computer crash issues so I am sure that is why you missed it. I have been leaning towards the second design that John posted here in THIS thread. I actually have a few questions still hanging out there as well, maybe I can get your take on a few things? I have a new design and a few Sketchup models that might help with what I am shooting for. I will post them over there and get your take if you can. About the inside out walls business.... I was thinking of using 2 x 6 studs, I figure that would give me a few inches of air gap behind the 703 or what have you before the sheetrock. Good idea? Does this change the problem about lifting the wall underneath the ceiling?Do you have an existing thread showing what you're doing, and where everything is in your space? That may help with more accurate answers. Also, with a standard 2x4 stud wall it only takes 1/4" shorter wall than the floor-ceiling distance in order to be able to tip the wall into place; holding it there will depend on the REST of your construction and a few other things. Whether you can tip a double-rocked frame into place depends on how long the wall is, how many friends you have, how many "wheaties" have been consumed, etc - generally a 12 foot section of 8 foot tall wall with two layers of 5/8 rock on ONE side will weigh about 550 pounds; but you only have to lift HALF that weight, since the other end will be resting on the floor; plus, as you lift the wall "gets lighter" because of the angle. Easiest way to do this is to use a couple of flat pry bars (google "stanley wonder-bar" for one) and start lifting the wall with those; as you can, put a couple of 2x4 blocks under the edge of the frame, then you can get your hands under the frame and lift. Using two people, each one only has to lift 140 pounds; if you have THREE people, each only lifts about 100 pounds, and it gets LIGHTER as you lift. IF you run a heavy bead of caulk right where the edge of the frame meets the floor (assuming the wall is where it's gonna be) and another bead 4" away from that, when you tip the wall up it will rest in the caulk. With this type wall, you should then caulk ALL the studs and horizontal framing members where they meet the gypsum board, since you can't get at the other side of the wall to do this. If you link to your other threads or post a pic or floor plan, etc, I can help more... Steve
The rubber gets glued to the top and bottom plate of the wall.
It's just the basic old 10mm playmatt / camping matt rubber you will find at any rubber products store.
What it does is isolate the walls from the ceiling and floor somewhat and makes a really tight seal along these joins.
We just built the walls about 15mm shorter than the ceiling height and then when I added the rubber and stood the walls it was a really tight snug fit.
I used a ball hammer and a level to knock walls up into place.
Once the walls are screwed togeaher they are very solid.
Make sure you use straight lumber especially on the studs at each end where walls intersect.
Thanks
JohnG
Thanks John. So any worries about the rubber breaking down over the years? I know some rubber does not stand up well over time. Also what are you using to secure the wall to the ceiling? I assume you are not just letting them stand there with nothing but the pressure from the rubber holding them up right? I suppose if you are building other walls this might not be such a big deal because the 90 degree walls would hold it up but that still worries me a bit. Anyone else using this type of design? Thanks again.The rubber gets glued to the top and bottom plate of the wall. It's just the basic old 10mm playmatt / camping matt rubber you will find at any rubber products store. What it does is isolate the walls from the ceiling and floor somewhat and makes a really tight seal along these joins. We just built the walls about 15mm shorter than the ceiling height and then when I added the rubber and stood the walls it was a really tight snug fit. I used a ball hammer and a level to knock walls up into place. Once the walls are screwed togeaher they are very solid. Make sure you use straight lumber especially on the studs at each end where walls intersect. Thanks JohnG
Hi there,
I never really thought about the rubber breaking down.
It is not exposed to UV so I think i should get at least 5 - 10 - 20 years out of it. who knows!. In my case I will be long moved on by then.
You are correct in the first case, there is nothing attaching the walls and ceiling togeather apart from the pressure from the rubber. Trust me, once you get the 90 degree walls joined togeather (I used really big screws for this rather than nails) and all that weight from the drywall and timber on the back those inside out walls they are as solid as can be. Mine would be at least as solid as a normal wall.
What you do is mark out the bottom plate first with each studs posistion and then meausre each studs height along the wall. This takes care of any increases/decreases in the original rooms height. We tacked two pieces of rubber on the bottom of the bottom plate as a guide to ensure we got the correct height and then took of about 10mm from the stud height so they fitted snuggly.
I was a bit unsure about this method at first but it is actually really easy to do.
My overall isolation from inside to outside is about 60db I would guess and that is only using one layer of 13mm wallborad on the new inside out walls and adding one more layer of 13mm wallboard to the original walls that had a 10mm layer already there. I have 703 in the wall cavities and normal fluffy insulation on the back of the inside out wall.
let me know if there is anything else you need to know.
thanks
JohnG
Maybe so, but... Does it meet code? :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:. . . there is nothing attaching the walls and ceiling togeather apart from the pressure from the rubber. Trust me, once you get the 90 degree walls joined togeather (I used really big screws for this rather than nails) and all that weight from the drywall and timber on the back those inside out walls they are as solid as can be. Mine would be at least as solid as a normal wall.
What code?
This is New Zealand - we do things by the seat of our pants down here!!
Truthfully I never asked or do I really care. I just got my builder mate around and away we went.
There is no way any one can see how the walls are done once the drywall is up.
JG
So you put drywall up on the inside as well then? I would think that would create issues because you have 3 leafs?What code? This is New Zealand - we do things by the seat of our pants down here!! Truthfully I never asked or do I really care. I just got my builder mate around and away we went. There is no way any one can see how the walls are done once the drywall is up. JG
No, I only put drywall on the back of the inside out wall.
The rubber is covered up because I dropped a ceiling on hat channels and then added another couple of layers of 20mm flooring after the walls were done. We did the walls first.
It is probally better / easier in hindsight to do the floors and ceilings first, then the walls but I did it the other way around and it worked out fine for me.
Once you have attached fabric over the walls (stapled to the studs and top/bottom plates) and then run a timber moulding top and bottom to hide the staple lines then you can't see the rubber anyway.
Thanks
JohnG
Not according to your Department of Building and Housing... :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:What code? This is New Zealand - we do things by the seat of our pants down here!!