Are a Studio Designer and Architect one and the same?

We are looking to build a studio in an existing structure in a 25x36ft space. I have some ideas for how to use the space and layout the studio, but do I need an official studio design before submitting it to an architect? The issue is building codes and we need a local architect who knows our city codes, but I seriously doubt there are any architects in our area that design studios. So, what's the next step? Could I hire a studio designer/architect that would later hand off the drawings to a local architect that would ensure code compliance? I'm unsure how this all works.

That's how I usually work Old Dog - I design it and the local architect makes sure it meets local building standards. cheers john

So you actually come up with architectural drawings with dimensions, specs, isolation methods, sound absorption, etc... and then a local architect brings it up to code? Can you be more detailed on the process? We will be doing the construction ourselves. Are your drawings detailed enough that someone with reasonable construction skills can follow them?

They have managed to so far. If they run into a problem they just email me or phone. I was talking to Warren in Kansas City just yesterday about his ceiling. He's at the drywall stage. Erik in Germany is now putting up his framing. Funky in Skopje, Macedonia has finshed and loves it, he would call me regularly. This is what he has said: I've setup my speakers and it sounds great.. Room acoustics is great, no matter which position you compare for listening.. Everywhere sounds great and same..Damn good..It really sounds and looks great.. I've made one recording today and it is marvelous.. sorry for the spam but hey! it's my site :D cheers john

John: Thanks for the spam ;) Really, though, you don't need to sell me on your designs and skills. I know you're good at what you do. I just don't understand the process and the dynamics between you, the designer, and the architect. Do you provide blueprints? Are your finished drawings adequate to build from and then does a local architect "proof" it for code compliance? Or does a local architect have to do the actual drawings. I live in California and the building codes are ridiculous, so I don't want to spend money I don't have to. And speaking of money, can you PM me to give me some numbers on how much it would cost for design/drawings/consulting and all that is included in your service? Thanks, John.

Aloha, Here's an overview of John's services: http://www.johnlsayers.com/Pages/Promo.htm Enjoy, Aloha 8)

OldDog: Maybe this line of thinking will help you: Blueprints (technical drawings these days) are the language of construction. Whether the construction is to the building code of a city, or of the studio details that are acoustically important, blueprints are the form of communication. Blurprints are not the ends themselves. Good luck! Andre

AVare wrote:

blueprints are the form of communication. Blurprints are not the ends themselves.

Right. But I'm still not totally clear what the local architect does with the original drawings. Does he have to rework them and make his own drawings to get it to code? Or does he just make changes? Here's our situation. We have some money - not a ton - and we'll have to have a local architect, we know. We probably can't afford both a designer and a local architect, depending on what they'll have to do and their cost, so we've considered just doing the design ourselves. I've been doing my homework and have an idea of what I want, but I don't do technical drawings. I could ask a local architect to draw up my ideas, but we're not counting on finding one that knows anything about building studios. Sooo, this is my dilemma. If we could find one person who does both designs and drawings that are up to code, we'd be happy campers. OR if a studio designer's drawings are adequate to build from and the local architect just had to peak at 'em and make some general tweaks for code compliance than we could possibly swing it. We just don't want to pay for two sets of drawings.

Right. But I'm still not totally clear what the local architect does with the original drawings. Does he have to rework them and make his own drawings to get it to code

The architect and designer work together on a common set of drawings and exchange/evolve them to the final design. These days the drawings are CAD so they are passed back and forward with revisions etc. electronically Sort of liike a thread on this forum with quotes. :D Andre

AVare wrote:

The architect and designer work together on a common set of drawings and exchange/evolve them to the final design. These days the drawings are CAD so they are passed back and forward with revisions etc. electronically Sort of liike a thread on this forum with quotes.

Ah, ha. So, I guess the next question is: What will the architect charge to get things up to code without having to come up with the design? Thanks, Andre!

So, I guess the next question is: What will the architect charge to get things up to code without having to come up with the design?

??? That all depends on your contract with the architect. :D Also , bringing a design "up to code" is one of the reasons for the architectural profession. In Ontario, you can not even build a substantial buidling without getting an architect to review and approve the design. Andre

AVare wrote:

So, I guess the next question is: What will the architect charge to get things up to code without having to come up with the design?

??? That all depends on your contract with the architect. :D Also , bringing a design "up to code" is one of the reasons for the architectural profession. In Ontario, you can not even build a substantial buidling without getting an architect to review and approve the design. Andre

Yeah, I was asking the question rhetorically. I'll have to find that out here. And we'll need the local architect's approval to get the "go ahead" from the city too. I'd really love to work with a professional studio designer (gee, do you guys know of any :wink: ) but it depends on the cost of the local architect as well.

OldDog - why not ring an architect and find out - or better still - go to your local council and find out what your codes are for a refurbishment of a basement. Warren, in Kansas City has almost finished his studio in his basement and he hasn't mentioned an architect. In a photo he's sent me my plan is on the wall. cheers john

John Sayers wrote:

OldDog - why not ring an architect and find out - or better still - go to your local council and find out what your codes are for a refurbishment of a basement.

Yeah, we're looking into it. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it,) this is in a church building so we have to meet all kinds of commercial codes. Lots more headache! Like, they my insist it be wheelchair accessible, or because we are refurbishing one area they may require the rest of the building to be upgraded to the meet present code. Worse yet, we may need to have two sets of sprinklers - one in the space above the studio between the ceiling and roof and in the actual room itself. Our little town is notorious for red tape. John, do you do all the vertical drawings as well? We have a lovely, sloped (9ft to 15ft) ceiling in our space and would love to take advantage of the high ceilings for the studio.

OldDog wrote:

Yeah, we're looking into it. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it,) this is in a church building so we have to meet all kinds of commercial codes. Lots more headache! Like, they my insist it be wheelchair accessible, or because we are refurbishing one area they may require the rest of the building to be upgraded to the meet present code.

That's two different things I think -- ADA compliance and building code compliance. It is true that many building codes appear to account for people with disabilities, but don't assume that building codes alone will keep you complaint with ADA. --Keith :mrgreen:

Old Dog, There would be a collaboration between the Studio designer and the Architect OR Certified Interior Designer (CID). Yes, the architects job would be to comply with all codes. For example, wall connection to the underside of the ceiling/roof. Spacing of studs, sizes of studs depending on the wall height, ADA (such as mounting heights, path of travel from parking to studio and egress). Since you mentioned this is going to be in a church, which is consider and assembly occupancy and now you want to introduce and different occupany (the studio) you might need an occupancy seperation wall(just need to know how to detail it) . Also, PARKING stalls and BATHROOM Fixture calcs. Since you are building a studio, the building department is going to view that as more people (then what the bldg. was originally designed for) in the entire building. And guess what? more people means more parking stalls and more toilet fixtures is needed. But maybe your church might have enough already. Also, if your studio is going to be in the basement or the second floor, yes, you will need access for the disable. a wheelchair lift or an elevator. Oh, and a big thing is the EXITS. If your studio is greater than 3000s.f. you'll need two exits which need to be apart more than half the greatest diagonal of your studio. One exit would lead directly to the outside and or a fire rated space. Fire sprinklers play an important part as far as the traveling distance to the exit itself. You can also play around on how you describe the studio to the building officials. For example you might tell them its for the church band employees onlyand no new outside people will use the facility. What you dont want to do is increase the occupancy load. But your not done yet, you'll probably need to submit to the fire department. And if on the drawings it mentions absorbtion material (flamable material) you might need to give them specs on the material your using for the acoustics. The fire department would need to know what kind of fumes would be release if you studio goes up in flames. Since this is a TYPE V (Type five) construction, your city might have a type V sheet. A type v sheet gives STANDARD details and span limits. If you live in a house constructed out of 2X4, thats type v. try not to introduce beams or columns, if you do, you'll need a structural engineer. But you might need one though(struct. eng), if you want A/C in the studio. A mechnical engineer might introduce a new a/c unit on the roof and the structural eng. would need to verify in the roof can handle the additional weight. Best of luck old dog!!!! golok

Wow. Thanks, Golok for all that info. It's amazing how much red tape there can be on a project like this. In the "NEW STUDIO DESIGN CHALLENGE" thread, I said we met with the local architect and he didn't seem to think we'd have any big issues because our existing building is fairly new and up to most codes and because this is just a renovation of an existing space, previously designed for a choir (no increased occupancy.) I'm still trying to shore up my design to get to the architect. I was hoping I'd get more ideas and suggestions, as I have some interesting criteria, so if you can come up with something, check it out in the "NEW STUDIO DESIGN CHALLENGE" thread. Thanks.

You may be able to get away with just a good studio designer (such as John) and a good structural engineer. Most likely you will hire them by the hour. Besides the structural engineering, they usually know the codes pretty well. The architect may not have much value to add in the case of a studio that is mostly specified by the studio designer. Just my take on things as I work on my own studio project...

Old Dog, Many architects utilize what's known as a "Design Team." That team is often comprised of various individuals with specialties that fit the specific project needs. I myself am a consultant on several Design Teams for many projects all over the US and I'm not an architect or an engineer. Speaking from many years of experience, having an architect be the central coordinator of your design team will probably save you much time and headache. As the owner, its a simple matter for you to contract directly with the "specialists" that YOU want on YOUR design team. (Shameless plug for John) Architects will fill in the specialties that remain. Not a biggie. It's an easy thing for design team members to copy the owner regarding their interaction with the architect. Personally I call it an "Invoice" which I charge against a previously obtained purchase order. :P BTW this is a biggie, simple but frequently overlooked--- shop for the architect -- preferrably you want one that's done similar projects. Lots and lots of architects in Cali. Check out the local AIA in your area. Hope this helps. Bryant

Thanks, Bryant. That was a really informative post. I'm definitely getting more of a grasp on how this works. Regarding finding an architect, we have one who has offered his services as a donation to our church, so that's hard to turn down. He is a Christian man from a sister church in town. He's also a musician and understands some of the principles of isolation, but from our discussions I gather not adequately for studio design. I figured this would be the case and this concerns me. I only have knowledge of what I've read on studio design - little experience, so I don't want to tell him how to do his job, but I do want to do it right. I've been working on the design for weeks. We've come up with some good plans (see the "NEW STUDIO DESIGN CHALLENGE" thread), but I don't know where we go from here. After submitting our ideas to the architect, I'm concerned his drawings won't be up to par, but we really can't afford to use half to one third our budget on a designer... I don't think. Would that be typical?

OD, The budget for design can certainly vary from project to project but in my experience 1/3 to 1/2 total project cost would be a bit high. Contract documents and design documents are different beasties usually. "Plans and Specifications" are CONTRACT documents. Typical ramifications...... Poor plans and specs = poorly built + unforseen costly over runs. In construction its usually not a matter of "if" things aren't built according to plans and specifications, its often a matter of "when" things aren't built to plans and specifications. Good plans and specifications are a reference to the "terms" of the contract; before, during, and after the work is done. If you have a good "Contract" where the "terms" are clearly spelled out you have a much better likelyhood of the work being done correctly. By correctly I mean both in accordance with building codes AND so the space functions in accordance with your design intent. Also consider if it has to be done two or three times, you'll only have to pay for it once if the contract documents support you. (How much do lawyers cost?) Another thing to consider: On larger commercial projects it is typical for owners to contract with the architect through all the stages/phases of the construction process from design to close out. A good architect's involvment during the entire construction process could wind up saving your tail feathers in the long run. Even so, you might have the option of contracting with the architect up to the completion of a particular stage/phase. So, 1/3 to 1/2...... I suppose its relative to the cost of materials, labor and the Peoples Republic of California's take. MOST IMPORTANTLY: If this project is for the Bride of Christ and its a part of God's plan for your ministry, you know God's thought of a way to make it all work out. I trust you'll enjoy the adventure and the process of seeking His will for you and your ministry. I think sometimes when we run into what we percieve as those "Insurmountable!!" obstacles.....its really God just providing some clarification and direction. You and I both know when you get things lined up in accordance with His will there'll be plenty of resources for His studio project at your local church. Trust me on this one and be encouraged brother, His studio is going to be GREAT! Peace Bryant

Thanks for the encouragement, Bryant. He's already been blessing our endeavour, I'm just learning so much about how this process works. Unfortunately, I'm the most knowledgable of the team working on this, will probably use it the most, but have the least construction experience. We are planning on doing the build out ourselves, so that will save a bundle, but we have about 30K total. Hiring a studio designer, plus cost of permits, structural engineers, and the other city stuff, even without paying an architect could eat up half of that, so I don't know if we can afford it. I'd LOVE to have a designer who can hand plans to the architect and construction guys with everything laid out as it should be, instead of me trying to take my little bit of head knowledge and tell them how to do it "right." So, let me put it this way: "Is 15K enough for materials (including doors, wiring, cabinetry, etc.) of a 40'x24' studio?" Here's some of the tentative plans:

Hey OD, I'll send you a PM. Bryant

Hey there, Following your threads. Have you gone in for permits yet? Just wanted to bring up the fact that California communities are notorious for horribly stringent seismic requirements. Same with Oregon. I've redesigned my project several times in order to comply with IBC and local Portland building code. One architect I was working with (since been relieved of duty!) thought that designs such as discussed in this forums would be impossible to build. Well, that's obviously not the case. Still, seismic issues related to the room-within-a-room design have posed major challenges and delays to construction for my project. A new architect certainly has helped! I'm sure your architect is considering this as well, but thought I'd give you the heads up! Good luck!

OldDog wrote:

Thanks for the encouragement, Bryant. He's already been blessing our endeavour, I'm just learning so much about how this process works. Unfortunately, I'm the most knowledgable of the team working on this, will probably use it the most, but have the least construction experience. We are planning on doing the build out ourselves, so that will save a bundle, but we have about 30K total. Hiring a studio designer, plus cost of permits, structural engineers, and the other city stuff, even without paying an architect could eat up half of that, so I don't know if we can afford it. I'd LOVE to have a designer who can hand plans to the architect and construction guys with everything laid out as it should be, instead of me trying to take my little bit of head knowledge and tell them how to do it "right." So, let me put it this way: "Is 15K enough for materials (including doors, wiring, cabinetry, etc.) of a 40'x24' studio?" Here's some of the tentative plans:

This is a great thread and some great questions are being asked in it. I for one did learn, pretty much the hard way, that many of the decoupling techniques, most notably floated rooms, are difficult for a DIY person or team to get a blessing on from local building departments here in Quakeifornia. At one point in my project planning stage, I considered a floated concrete slab using Mason Industries' jack up floor system and specially designed seismic snubbers. You can see the details of that (since abandoned) plan halfway down page 13 of my monster thread. It may seem like overkill, but to float a slab in this state, this is the level one probably must achieve in order to have authorization to build. I'm glad I didn't proceed with that plan for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is an extremely high water table in my area -- about 12-14 inches in dry weather, and more like 9-10" after heavy rains. Bottom line, the requirements for fastening to slabs are very strict around here -- and that's just one example. Good luck with your continued planning. You are to be commended for getting all this stuff figured out before you even think about putting hammer to nail. 8) --Keith :mrgreen: