Pics for Suggestions/Critique of Wall design plans

Greetings All! I hope most of you can take the time to give me suggestions and critique my wall design plans, cause this might be a somewhat L-O-N-G post! :D I can't seem to post comments for each attatched file, so I guess I'll have to list my comments in the beginning. PICTURE #1 (Studio Shell with Dimensions) The first picture is the basic layout of the "raw-4 wall" Control Room and Vocal Booth. The dimensions should be accurate on it. One thing to note for various OTHER pictures is that drywall on the Exercise Room side and Office side has already been installed. There are 2 sheets of 5/8" drywall installed. You can pretty much see the drywall in the pics. The drywall already installed is still included in the drawings where applicable. PICTURE#2 (Studio Shell-Vocal Booth Doors) This is a design of what I believe will be the final layout including my splayed walls, rear traps etc. ....... NEED SOME GOOD ADVICE HERE...In the design you'll see a red door and a blue door. My speakers will be about 3.5ft from the red door, and about 4.5ft from the blue door. The door will hopefully be a solid core door with glass running through 70-80% of it. There's a picture of the type door I'm talking about in Pic #11. Because the door is so close to my speakers, I was concerned about vibrations causing problems (Not so much when I'm tracking as when I'm mixing). That's where the blue door came in...if the angle of the red door along with how close it is looks like an issue, what about turning the door the angle of the blue door? There will also be another glass door/wall after you get past the red or blue door. (White door) (FYI...red and blue doors swing out into the control room area) Pictures 3-7 .....had no comments on those... Picture#8 (Vocal Booth South Wall) Ok, now on THIS pic I had some concerns. The inner wall (on the vocal booth side) will be a Resonator/Absorber. I looked to see which wall design for my inner and outer wall/frame would give me the best isolation considering that my INNER wall/frame would be a Resonator/Absorber. The problem I kept coming up with is that there has to be a "back" on the Resonator/Absorber wall, so I left the wall/frame in front of the Resonator/Absorber wall (outer wall) without drywall on the inside leaf and only had insulation in it. (I'm using 1/2" drywall for the back of the Resonator/Absorber wall) Is there a better way to design these 2 walls/frames for better isolation? Also, would it be better if the studs for the Resonator/Absorber wall/frame were 24" OC? Picture 9,10 and 11...I had no comments on those either. If ya'll see anything out of place, crazy in design or whatever...LAY IT ON ME!...Hey, I want to build my studio as best as I possibly can within my means! :D Oh yea...I just found out there are only 6 pics per post, so the rest are in my post below this one.

Here are the remaing pics as outlined in the previous post...

Stan, your CR isn't plane symmetrical; this is important for stereo imaging, whether you go for the "Dave Moulton, live sidewall" approach or the more usual "absorbed first reflection point" approach. Either way, you need to draw a line down the exact center of the CR and, for at least the front half, EVERYTHING on ONE side of that line should have an acoustic counterpart on the OTHER side of the line. Your door setup violates that, as does the slat res on the right-hand wall. Also, I'm not clear on why you've set the front of the CR back from the outer wall so far; is this something to do with room ratios? And did I miss a ceiling height measurement? I think the front of your CR and the entry between it and the vox booth can be much simpler, but need your answers to the above first... Steve

Hey Steve Thanx for the reply! Ok, you stated that the design wasn't symmetrical. The first drawing below is what I had intended my basic acoustical set up to be. I had intended to have a Helmholtz Resonator on the opposite wall, but from what you wrote, that still won't make things symmetrical because of the door. I came up with an idea I wanted to run across to you to "possibly" help with this. In picture 2 & 3 I thought about building a "Removeable Helmholtz Resonator Panel" that can be removed when I'm tracking so I can see inside the booth, but installed when I'm mixing. I'd "rather" not have to do this, but I'm stuck with my vocal booth being where it is, and unless I put a door coming from the room outside of the vocal booth (the exercise room) this is the only way I can enter the booth. Man-O-Man...if I have to get "wifey" to let me put a door in there, don't be surprised if you see a story on CNN about a man running down the street with a woman throwing guitars and studio equipment after him yelling "you wanna do WHAT!!???! :lol: I don't know if you remember my initial studio design, but it didn't have a vocal booth like I do now...I had to make a LOT of concessions to get that in there, but heyyyyyyyyyyy, I did it as smooth as silk... :wink: er, "that time" :roll: Anyway, I believe that drawing 3 would make it symmetrical, but I'm just not sure about the removeable panel. If you have ANY other suggestions, I'm open to em' all! As far as why the front of the control room is back so far from the wall...that's because of the soffit frame/enclosure. This is where my speakers will be. Ceiling height at present (from ceiling joist to concrete slab floor) is 8' 7 1/4". I figure by the time I put flooring, RC on the joist with 2 sheets of 5/8" drywall my ceiling to floor numbers should be somewhere around 8 feet. I believe that's all. Thanks again for your help.

Still not there; I'm outa time for now, will try to get something for you in the next few days; I need to know first - is the entire area presently a "blank slate", as in your first drawing at the top of the thread? (Please say yes :? ) Steve

Oh yea, it's all empty...Matter of fact, the pics that are in each wall design are the state everything is in now. The only thing that's been done are the "outer" walls I have shown below. (Edit) There are "Temporary" frames (not secured) on the Vocal booth North and East walls, but they can be easily removed. I'm not sure what you meant when you said "still not there", but I also included an explaination of how I was going to do my Helmholtz Resonators along with the removeable one. Hey, I'll wait for the "pro's" green light before I start cookin' :wink:

To quote an infamous modern cartoon villain - "Excellent......"

Hey Steve, read my last post. I made a slight edit in it. Thanx!

B-B-B-Bump... BTW Steve...just got Rod's book on Sat...Hopefully it will, er, "possibly" cut down on a few questions here and thare'... :roll: Thanx!

Aloha Stan, Thanks for the PM. :D A couple of thoughts to chew on :mrgreen: - Regarding the "Knightfly tip 2.JPG" - Would incorporating the helmholtz slat design into the door be viable? There's a couple of guys that have done this, one being Blue Bear Sound (click on update #6 and scroll about halfway down the page) http://www.johnlsayers.com/Studio/Mainp ... uebear.htm It might get tricky figuring out the clearance and which way it allows you to open, but it makes for a real clean install. - I think insulation in the area behind the diffusor on the back wall would be better than nothing at all. With all of the bass freq's that build up at the rear wall, it's better to have all the bass trapping you can get. (By the way, in reference to a post by Steve regarding diffusors, if you are sitting closer than 11' or so from them, you may hear some comb filtering going on. With a 23' control room, your mix position up front should be fine, but if you position a sofa near the back wall, you may hear some of the effects of the diffusor a bit there.) - Regarding the "Knightfly tip 4.JPG" - Good move on the side wall angles. :wink:

Picture#8 (Vocal Booth South Wall) Ok, now on THIS pic I had some concerns. The inner wall (on the vocal booth side) will be a Resonator/Absorber. I looked to see which wall design for my inner and outer wall/frame would give me the best isolation considering that my INNER wall/frame would be a Resonator/Absorber. The problem I kept coming up with is that there has to be a "back" on the Resonator/Absorber wall, so I left the wall/frame in front of the Resonator/Absorber wall without drywall and only had insulation in it. (I'm using 1/2" drywall for the back of the Resonator/Absorber wall) Is there a better way to design these 2 walls/frames for better isolation? Also, would it be better if the studs for the Resonator/Absorber wall/frame were 24" OC?

Have you considered John's "Inside Out Wall Construction" for these? (click on "construction" tab at left - "walls and ceilings" at top) http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html Hope these help, Aloha 8)

Aloha Kendale! Thanx for the suggestions! I like the idea about the door. Only thing is, I wanted to be able to see the vocalist/singers inside the booth. I do plan on having a video camera inside the booth, but it was intended for a different purpose. This is a tough one because I really would like to have an eyesight-visual of the people in there, but at the same time having the resonator as part of the door sure would be a GREAT way to do it. I had thought about making it a part of the door as you suggested, but add a window, but then it would seem we are back to what Knightfly said...(it wasn't symmetrical...everything needs to have an acoustic counterpart on both sides at least half way down the length of the room) As far as the diffusor and the couch...all I can say is OUCH about the couch! :lol: Yep, I was going to put my couch right in front of the diffusor. Hmmmm...what to do now...??? About the inside out wall...that might work Kendale. I'll have pretty much complete control about what goes on in my basement when I'm doing vocals. The room above my vocal booth and right next to it will be empty and quiet so I may get away with having that 1 wall there. (If I do it the way you're speaking of I will be using the "outer" wall that's already been constructed to make the slot resonator. I'll look into this further. Thanx again for the suggestions!

camistan wrote:

I like the idea about the door. Only thing is, I wanted to be able to see the vocalist/singers inside the booth. I do plan on having a video camera inside the booth, but it was intended for a different purpose. This is a tough one because I really would like to have an eyesight-visual of the people in there, but at the same time having the resonator as part of the door sure would be a GREAT way to do it. I had thought about making it a part of the door as you suggested, but add a window, but then it would seem we are back to what Knightfly said...(it wasn't symmetrical...everything needs to have an acoustic counterpart on both sides at least half way down the length of the room)

Cami, step outside of the box - and think of this from the other angle. If the door with a window is the best thing for you and your vocal booth - but causes a problem with acoustics - then go with what is best for the studio - (the door) and build a dummy door with a back painted window assembly on the dead side. Acoustically you have your symmetry back without giving up on what is the most important feature of your vocal booth. Always find a creative way to get what you want and need with out having to compromise acoustically. By the way - the helmholtz covered door is exactly the assembly I used in the string room at Power Station - the one I point out on the side wall (it's actually a pair of doors). My invisa doors treated in exactly the same manner as the wall so we could have them without destroying the room design visually. Sincerely, Rod

Hmmmm... I was thinking about Kendale's suggestion about the inside out wall for my Vocal booth South wall. I like the idea because it saves me SPACE, but it looks as if I would be giving up some isolation. Seems like I could achieve a little more isolation for this room by still making the outer wall an entity in itself, then build the resonator wall inside the outer wall. (See question for picture #8 at the top of this thread (in my 1st post) and the pic and diagram of the Vocal booth South wall above) If I do leave the Vocal booth South outer wall as it is, I'm "tempted" to put drywall on the inside of the outer wall, but from what I've read about wall design and isolation, it seems adding drywall on the inside of the outer wall would make it WORSE. By NOT adding the drywall, the construction would be like the diagram for the Vocal booth South wall construction. Is this a correct assumption? Also, got 1 more question... If it's different "textures" of material that sound doesn't like to travel through (along with mass), would I be better off simply using 5/8" drywall for all walls & ceilings? At present, I changed up from having everything 5/8" drywall to mixing it up. I was "thinking" by having different densities of drywall (1/2" & 5/8") this would help lessen the ability of certain frequencies transmitting though the drywall due to it's different thickness. I believe the data in this post illustrates this. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1499 In all my walls, I'm concerned with the total spectrum of sound transmission (all frquencies). However, in beefing up my ceiling. I would be more concerned with the lower frequencies which is why I'll use 5/8" drywall there. Which is better...the "mix-up" or straight 5/8" across the board???? (Hey Steve...if you respond to this, in one of the post above you stated "almost there"...and that means????)

Stan, answered (sorta) in PM - also, you may want to look into this http://www.rpginc.com/products/clearsorber/index.htm as another way to go; I've not used these and can't find online yet but definitely interesting... Steve