Pure L's Detached Garage Studio

Truthfully, I was thinking the same thing, but I hesitated posting it because I hate to prescribe the isolated slab solution to others, knowing there's not a lot of (or any?) test data to support it. But, yeah, that would be the way to go, given the fact that it's new construction. Got pictures of your place? I'm curious whether or not there's a chance you can salvage your existing slab to be the "inner" slab, and then you would dig a trench around the place for the outer foundation pour... :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

sharward wrote:

Truthfully, I was thinking the same thing, but I hesitated posting it because I hate to prescribe the isolated slab solution to others, knowing there's not a lot of (or any?) test data to support it. But, yeah, that would be the way to go, given the fact that it's new construction. Got pictures of your place? I'm curious whether or not there's a chance you can salvage your existing slab to be the "inner" slab, and then you would dig a trench around the place for the outer foundation pour... :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

Keith. That's precisely what I was thinking! There are pictures of the existing garage on page 1 of this thread. No pictures of the current slab, however. Figuring that this is a detached garage, I'd think that the old slab would be fine as it's not really connected to anything. My old footing though is pretty old-school. It's 6" deep and 12 3/8" wide. Settled so much that there's a lot of earth-to-wood contact with this old building. Also, some vines have even made their way into the siding. Not only that, I just placed two rat-traps in the attic the other day (still no luck)! How deep should the slab be to support the weight of the drywall and framing? It's had cars parked on it and I don't see any cracking or splitting. I also know that it was poured within the last 5-10 years so it's not old like the footing. Do those scissor trusses put most of their weight on the concrete walls/footing? I'm assuming so. Keith, I can't wait for you to try out your room as then we'll all know if it works! (I'm sure it will). Thanks for the response!

Pure L wrote:

There are pictures of the existing garage on page 1 of this thread.

Oh yeah -- sorry, I was in a hurry and didn't look back on the thread's beginning. (Shame on me.)

No pictures of the current slab, however. Figuring that this is a detached garage, I'd think that the old slab would be fine as it's not really connected to anything. My old footing though is pretty old-school. It's 6" deep and 12 3/8" wide.

Hmmm... I think you're referring to the part of the footing that is visible above the slab or ground. The footing is much deeper than that -- maybe 2 feet, maybe longer -- definitely below the frost line. The depth is important, but the integrity of the soil and whether or not there is steel reinforcement is even more important.

Settled so much that there's a lot of earth-to-wood contact with this old building.

Not good. :(

How deep should the slab be to support the weight of the drywall and framing? It's had cars parked on it and I don't see any cracking or splitting. I also know that it was poured within the last 5-10 years so it's not old like the footing.

Structural slabs (like you'd find in today's houses) are typically a minimum of 6" thick and have a 6" x 6" 10 guage wire mesh. I kicked it up a notch in my case and used 1/2" rebar on 12" centers. I also used a five sack mix (code calls for a minimum of 4 sack) and I added fiber mesh to the mix which increases its strength significantly. Some would say you need either steel or fiber mesh, but I did both. I didn't want cracks and so far I have none.

Do those scissor trusses put most of their weight on the concrete walls/footing? I'm assuming so.

Yes, which is why they need to be strong. All the weight of the entire building (not including the slab) is transferred to the walls, and then to their sole plates... So the number of pounds per square foot (or, rather, square inch) is significant. Yes, car tires can weigh 1,000 pounds or more counting the vehicles they are supporting... But the building is even heavier. Plus, if a garage slab fails, you pull the cars out and pour a new slab -- not simple, but not rocket surgery. If a foundation fails............ :roll: ...........You're in for a world of hurt.

Keith, I can't wait for you to try out your room as then we'll all know if it works! (I'm sure it will).

Thanks! I can't wait! 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

The lighting is awesome!!!! 8) (So is everything else, but the lighting is especially so!) --Keith :mrgreen:

Keith, This thing was built in 1943. The 6 inch deep footing is thee footing! I think that's why it has settled so much. The guy who owned the house last poured the slab. It used to be dirt floors in there!

Hrmmmm... :roll: ...Any idea how deep the slab is around the edges? Is there steel inside of it? Do you know how well the soil was compacted and what kind of base material was used before the slab was poured? If the answer to these questions is "no," I would recommend busting up the slab and starting anew. (And I'm allowed to say that because I've done it!! :P) --Keith :mrgreen:

Ya know, I'd really like to draw up some pics and post ideas that I have but my MSPAINT seems to have shat the bed.......... Can anyone tell me why my mspaint is, all of a sudden, using so much memory that my whole system bogs down? It's really hard to quit too. I get all sorts of strange "can't exit as this program is being debugged" nonsense. I've even had to do a hard restart. Really sucks. It wasn't like this a couple of weeks ago. Just look at the fine art I've already deposited further up in this thread! Anyway, I'm using win2k with 512 MB of ram. I used to use this program like it was goin' outta style. What gives? Thanks.

Have you searched the Microsoft Knowledge Base?

Aha. I just figured it out. By the way, Keith, that knowledge base is extremely buggy. Thanks for trying though. I appreciate that. Just in case anyone is wondering, MSPaint defaults to the canvas-size used the last time the program was used. Somehow, I must've used an extremely large size last time and that's the reason for my memory being overwhelmed. I'll try to get some pictures tonight of the "footing" and the slab. That way you can see what I'm up against.

great new avatar :)

Pure L wrote:

Aha. I just figured it out. By the way, Keith, that knowledge base is extremely buggy. Thanks for trying though. I appreciate that. Just in case anyone is wondering, MSPaint defaults to the canvas-size used the last time the program was used. Somehow, I must've used an extremely large size last time and that's the reason for my memory being overwhelmed. I'll try to get some pictures tonight of the "footing" and the slab. That way you can see what I'm up against.

Exactly what I was gonna reply, glad you figured it out already. Ever thought about photoshop(light) or alike? Visio works great too (ms office)

RATS! I just got an email from the old owner of the house (I had to go through my neighbor who--luckily enough--is still good friends with the old owner). She informed me that the actual floor-slab is only 3.5 inches deep. Now I have a question that I know will get shot down: What if I poured an EXTREMELY wide footing......say......24" across? Used it for the 8"X8"X16" block, left a 8" gap and then put up the wall-frames plus 3 layers of drywall? That way, I could still use the floor-slab. I'm convinced that it's pretty hardy. (sigh) I'll continue to swallow my pride and post ridiculous questions so please forgive me. [Grabs flame-suit]

Maybe. Let's see some drawings of what you're thinking. Just so you know, I did consult a structural engineer about my situation, and his first thought was doing something similar. I ultimately decided against it though (i.e., I went further). --Keith :mrgreen:

Below is a picture of the existing slab and old footing.

Here's a possibility........ I'm not too sure how much "overhang" the footing must have. If the blocks are 8" wide and then there's a 12" airspace before the framing (with 3 layers of drywall), does anybody know how much extra footing there should be? I'm assuming it's ok with everyone if I name that gap after Keith? All in favor? All opposed? Good. That's taken care of. ;-)

This is the south-facing outside wall of the garage. It's 5ft 3in away from the cemetery fence. (Yes, behind me is a large and quite beautiful cemetery). As you can see in the picture there is significant earth-to-wood contact and considerable rot/damage. When one has been vandalized by the earth, one has little choice other than to give-in and build a studio, no?

Ahhh, OK, I see what you're trying to accomplish. You don't want to do it that way. You need to have your gap between your leaves in order to have any hope of reducing or eliminating flanking across the slab or ground. So, rather than one fat foundation, you need two foundations -- one for each leaf. --Keith :mrgreen:

Got a bull-dozer? :? Seriously, looks like a lot of damage there to try and salvage... Steve

knightfly wrote:

If you're starting from scratch (and I do mean scratch) and don't want to mess with floated floors, I'd seriously consider an ISOLATED slab similar to what Sharward's doing - in your case, I'd put up heavy footings for the outer perimeter, use surface bonded block on top of that, fill the block with sand, then pour a separate, monolithic slab inside that perimeter leaving at least 12" of air gap, and use 3 layers of 5/8 sheet rock on 2x6 studs 24" OC for your inner walls. Doors to match, with an airlock large enough to only need one door open at a time. Of course you'd need to equal that performance with your roof/ceiling (not an easy task) but it's doable if you start out with that goal in mind - Surface-bonded block info http://www.quikrete.com/diy/QUIKWALLSur ... ement.html http://www.thenaturalhome.com/drystackblock.htm HTH... Steve

I plan on starting from scratch, Steve. Although I'll probably have to take the thing down "manually" (sans dozer). I'm just trying to keep the original slab. That's it.

Keith. Is there any way you could do a quick sketch-up of what you're referring to (regarding 2 gaps between the leaves)? I'm not too sure as to where they'd actually go. Also, the question about how much "overhang"(?) the footing must have "above and beyond" the 2x4 sill plate is plaguing me. Obviously, I'm wondering about the overhang-needs of the concrete blocks too.......but that goes without saying. Thanks. By the way, Rod Gervais' book just came in the mail today. Lots of good info!

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:

great new avatar :)

Is that by any chance Art Garfunkel? K

Luftweg wrote:

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:

great new avatar :)

Is that by any chance Art Garfunkel? K

Nope. Phil Spector.

Phil Spector Can't be; where's the .45??!? :wink: Steve

knightfly wrote:

Phil Spector Can't be; where's the .45??!? :wink: Steve

LoL. Aside from apparently going to the same hair stylist.... Would you think they both share something in common with respect to 'A Bridge Over Troubled Water'? K

If you've see Art Garfunkle lately, you'd know he hasn't had that much hair since the 60s! The last time he looked a lot like Larry Fine from the three stooges. len