Hello I need some help
Excuse me if my English isn’t the best! But I will try to explain my problem.
I recently moved to a new apartment and when I had put all my gear in to place I found out that it was almost impossible to mix or produce music in my monitors because of an acoustical problem. The area that is causing the problem lies between 100-300Hz. This area masks the audible spectra or should I say this area is much louder than I am used to and it makes it very hard to focus when I mix or produce.
Basses that sounded deep in that past now have more power in the in this area: 100-300Hz. And some tones around 100-130Hz really resonates in the room, it’s really disturbing….
I thought that I placed my monitor in good spot in the room.
My desk I placed along the short side of the room (1,92m). The monitors are placed approximately 12” from the wall. The dimensions of the room is 3,56m*1,92m*2,55m (side walls, short walls, Height). My listening position is 50” from the wall.
What is it that makes the mentioned area much louder and what is it that makes some frequencies resonate?
What is the best way to solve this problem? Should I try to Build broadband absorbers, bass traps ore Helmholtz resonators? Which solution do you think suites me most?
Thanks!
/Daniel
Need some help with acoustic treatment, opinions…
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 5776.
no one?
Aloha and welcome to the forum, Daniel :D
Your english is fine. :wink:
Sometimes you got to hang in there, because the guys get pretty tied up.
Good call. It's closer to 137HzThe area that is causing the problem lies between 100-300Hz.
Excerpt from the SAE website:What is it that makes the mentioned area much louder and what is it that makes some frequencies resonate?
Sound familiar?STANDING WAVES - Another problem created inside is parallel walls and standing waves. Standing waves are when a sound reflects off walls that are opposite each other and a wave equal to the distance is formed. As you move around a room with standing waves you can hear as you walk in and out of a standing wave. In one spot the bass is booming yet in another there is hardly any bass. Makes it hard to figure out how much bass you have? What happens here is that if you stand at the high point of an in phase standing wave you hear double the volume of the frequency yet when you stand at the same point in an out of phase standing wave the waves cancel each other and you hear nothing. It's pretty hard to figure out your sound frequency balance when this happens throughout your control room. It happens at all the octaves of the frequencies as well so if the frequency is 440Hz it also happens at 880Hz , 1760Hz ,3520Hz,etc. This is what creates coloration in the room. As you move around the room the frequency response keeps changing causing room coloration. It's also a problem in the studio if your mic is sitting directly in an out of phase node!! So the first thing you must do is eradicate all the parallel walls in a studio design. I believe that a wall must be at least 12 degrees off parallel to stop parallel wall standing wave interference. That's either one wall at 12 degrees or two walls at 6 degrees each. If you can afford to make the angle bigger, do so. Also you can create angled walls within a rectangular room by adding acoustic treatment. (I'll demonstrate that in the pages on wall treatment). (Note: having non parallel walls doesn't entirely stop standing waves - they still form within a room but along different lines of repetition). The main reason for having angled walls in a control room is because of reflection control of the high frequencies for true imaging from your speakers. This effect also happens between the floor and the ceiling so to stop the effect you must angle one! well it's not going to be the floor is it. I must state here that putting angles into the ceiling is expensive so I would recommend that for the home studio you use the acoustic treatment to break up the ceiling. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html
Excerpt from SAE Website:What is the best way to solve this problem? Should I try to Build broadband absorbers, bass traps ore Helmholtz resonators? Which solution do you think suites me most?
Helpful links: SAE Website - http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html Wall Unit Plans - http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm Reference Section - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2125 More Reference - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1168 This might seem to be a lot of stuff to absorb. :shock: It is. Take your time digesting the info, formulate your questions, and ask. It'll be well worth the effort. :wink: Hope this helps, Aloha 8)There are basically two ways to control low frequencies. Acoustic Hangers. This is a system of fibre board panels that are wrapped with insulation and are hung freely using wire or rope. The large hangers 1.8m x 500mm work in the low frequency range whilst the panels 1.2m x 300mm effect the low mid frequencies. It is common to have up to a 1.2m space at the rear of the control room with the large hangers whilst the smaller hangers are effective if suspended in the ceiling cavity created by a false ceiling. Panel Absorbers. A panel of plywood or particle board is placed over an air cavity with insulation glued to the back of the panel. The panel has a resonate frequency and when it occurs in the room it resonates and the insulation absorbs the energy. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html
Thank YOU!Aloha and welcome to the forum, Daniel :D
Ok sorry if I seemed a bit stressed.Your english is fine. :wink: Sometimes you got to hang in there, because the guys get pretty tied up.
He He, it’s seems that my hearing still work a bit, but it would be nice to have perfect pitch :)Good call. It's closer to 137Hz
Yes off course. I studied at SAE I Stockholm (Audio engineering diploma) so I’m a bit ashamed to ask basic questions about acoustics. It’s really hard to get job as a sound engineer in Sweden now a days so the theoretical knowledge I got slowly fades a way if I don’t really try to stay “tuned” all the time. If you know what I mean..Excerpt from the SAE website: STANDING WAVES - Another problem created inside is parallel walls and standing waves. Standing waves are when a sound reflects off walls that are opposite each other and a wave equal to the distance is formed. As you move around a room with standing waves you can hear as you walk in and out of a standing wave. In one spot the bass is booming yet in another there is hardly any bass. Makes it hard to figure out how much bass you have? What happens here is that if you stand at the high point of an in phase standing wave you hear double the volume of the frequency yet when you stand at the same point in an out of phase standing wave the waves cancel each other and you hear nothing. It's pretty hard to figure out your sound frequency balance when this happens throughout your control room. It happens at all the octaves of the frequencies as well so if the frequency is 440Hz it also happens at 880Hz , 1760Hz ,3520Hz,etc. This is what creates coloration in the room. As you move around the room the frequency response keeps changing causing room coloration. It's also a problem in the studio if your mic is sitting directly in an out of phase node!! So the first thing you must do is eradicate all the parallel walls in a studio design. I believe that a wall must be at least 12 degrees off parallel to stop parallel wall standing wave interference. That's either one wall at 12 degrees or two walls at 6 degrees each. If you can afford to make the angle bigger, do so. Also you can create angled walls within a rectangular room by adding acoustic treatment. (I'll demonstrate that in the pages on wall treatment). (Note: having non parallel walls doesn't entirely stop standing waves - they still form within a room but along different lines of repetition). The main reason for having angled walls in a control room is because of reflection control of the high frequencies for true imaging from your speakers. This effect also happens between the floor and the ceiling so to stop the effect you must angle one! well it's not going to be the floor is it. I must state here that putting angles into the ceiling is expensive so I would recommend that for the home studio you use the acoustic treatment to break up the ceiling. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html Sound familiar?
It sounds as option B will be the best alternative for me. Panel absorbers ca look really nice in a esthetical way If I try out option A my girlfriend probably would kill me :) If it was only my apartment I would have no problem to build whatever I like…Excerpt from SAE Website: There are basically two ways to control low frequencies. Acoustic Hangers. This is a system of fibre board panels that are wrapped with insulation and are hung freely using wire or rope. The large hangers 1.8m x 500mm work in the low frequency range whilst the panels 1.2m x 300mm effect the low mid frequencies. It is common to have up to a 1.2m space at the rear of the control room with the large hangers whilst the smaller hangers are effective if suspended in the ceiling cavity created by a false ceiling. Panel Absorbers. A panel of plywood or particle board is placed over an air cavity with insulation glued to the back of the panel. The panel has a resonate frequency and when it occurs in the room it resonates and the insulation absorbs the energy. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html
He He your rigth! I will read and try to absrob ;) Thanks for the help! /DanielHelpful links: SAE Website - http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html Wall Unit Plans - http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm Reference Section - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2125 More Reference - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1168 This might seem to be a lot of stuff to absorb. :shock: It is. Take your time digesting the info, formulate your questions, and ask. It'll be well worth the effort. :wink: Hope this helps,
You may want to add this
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=18059
to your reading list... Steve
(hint - what is the height of your woofers, and what is the total room height?)
Alopha,
Thanks Steve. I'll add that to mine as well. :wink:
Aloha 8)