Okay guys I think I've finally settled on a design (I'm getting excited!! :lol: ) but would really appreciate your thoughts before I break ground with it.
Okay, continuing on from my last thread http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4870, I decided to section off the entrance and make a vocal booth (too small??). The front door is hollow core so I'm going to try the MDF on both sides (M-A-M). I'll also cleat the house side to seal the edges.
I'm considering using a sliding glass door to separate the vocal booth from the studio, but am not sure yet if they come that small. If not, I was thinking a single wall/window'd door. I'll mirror this angle (not sure of the exact angle, but it is greater than 6 degrees) on the other side with 703 wall. The ultimate "W" forming the back wall will be a 703 wall covered with fabric except for the vocal booth entrance (hopefully glass).
The front walls will be slot resonators (2x4 & 703).
Any final advice would be greaaaaatly appreciated!
Thanks all,
Kelly[/url]
One last design for your approval :-)
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 5490.
what about somethin like this
Thanks for the quick response and for your drawing Doni.
Are you suggesting a newly constructed wall along the back of the vocal booth to break up the parallel walls? I like your idea of using a conventional door leading into the control room. Went to Lowe's today and they wanted $620.00 to custom order the 80" x 50" sliding glass door (a wee bit more than I had budgeted for that portal).
Is there anything else I should change? Is the size of the vocal booth okay?
Kelly
Anyone? I just wanted to make sure, particularly the vocal booth, won't end up being a problem. I'll be using it to record vocals and acoustic guitars mostly.
If the size of the iso booth is okay, should I use my left over Auralex (from last project studio) to cover the walls and corners (Lenrd bass traps) or should I use alternate means of treating. Again, the floor will be wood.
Thanks, any last words would mean a lot (to me and possibly my little money clip :wink: )
Kelly - I have a problem with that glass door being parallel to your left soffit speaker, also it will add odd reflections back to the listening position.
cheers
john
Ah, I hadn't thought of that. In an effort to salvage this plan and the door I recently purchased :shock: would this work? - a framed, cloth covered 703 pannel the size of the door, hung on the control room side of the door during mixing then removed during low level recording? Or would this create more problems? If so, I'm willing to start over but just wanted to exhaust this plan first.
BTW, Thank you for the quick reply and thank you for this forum I have learned so much already! :D
yes kelly that would help - maybe some very heavy curtains, or curtains lined with 703??
cheers
john
Heavy curtains it is then. I've got some left over from my last place I think might work fine.
As for the size of the vocal booth, is that too small or could I treat it in a way that would still provide a good "non boxy" sound? (maybe slots on two walls, glass door then 703 or auralex on others?)
Kelly
Just thought I'd follow up on my last question regarding the vocal booth treatment. I've included a couple of pictures below along with a sketch of the booth listing the dimensions.
As you can see I started framing in the V.B. already, but I just wanted to know the best way to treat a booth that small. I purchased five bags of 4" Rockwool yesterday that I was planning on using but wasn't sure. I also have a lot of Auralex panels and bass traps left over from my last place.
Thanks in advance for the advise.
bump (Sorry to hear about your adware problems Steve, I've been there recently :wink: )
Hello everyone, I know you guys are busy but it's been over a month since anyone has replied to this thread. :( Am I doing something wrong? Is my question too ambiguous??
I followed all of the guidelines and believe me, I've spent countless hours sifting through this awesome site and others trying to find the answers to my question in the mean time.
Aloha Kelly,
Here's few bits of random info I've collected on the topic of vocal booths. Perhaps some of it may be helpful to you.
My understanding of small vocal booth/voice-over treatments tend to lean toward the "dead" side. During the insulating phase of my front soffits, in which I lined the cavity with 3" 2.5 pcf rockwool slabs, I noticed how nice and quiet it got with each 4' x 2' x 3" section of rockwool that was installed. Bryan Giles cautioned however, against building a square booth saying; "Be careful, a dead square booth will have low end issues (you'll hear the issues on your mic.) Steve (Knightfly) mentioned that "4' x 5' x 7' inside dim's is about the best modal compromise for a small booth." Mode-wise, a 5 x 6 x 7 (inside) booth looks very good. It will also fit into an 8 foot ceiling area if necessary, and is big enough for 3 (very) friendly vocalists or 1-2 with a guitar. Just do NOT make any two dimensions the same, or more than one dimension in even # of feet.
By the way, how tall is the ceiling? Hope these help, Aloha 8)I used Bob Gold’s Room Mode Calculator to find some ideal dimensions for a Room within a Room construction I am designing for a vocal booth... or so i thought... The maximum internal dimensions I can achieve with my limited space are: 8'L x 5'W x 7'H. Remember this is a vocal room and will mostly be used just for vocals (so I figure relevant frequencies will maybe go down as low as 85hz to capture the harmonics of a very bassy voice). The "Ideal" dimensions I came up with are: 7'3"L x 4'7"W x 6'9"H I have 3 questions regarding the results of these dimensions when entered into this room mode calculator. 1. The resulting room ratio is 1 : 1.47 : 1.58, these numbers fall close but not exactly within the "Bolt Area" graph that i see in my Master Acoustics Handbook, I don’t think its that important but should i be concerned about this? 2. There is a dip around 100 Hz in the Bonello graph, I understand this is not desirable, but is it less desirable than using these dimensions: 7'3"L x 5'W x 6'7"H whereby the Bonello curve looks slightly more flat BUT there is a problem with the modes in the 113hz-116hz frequency group (as indicated by the Yellow warning color). These are Axial and Tangential mode problems so i figure they're treatable since I plan to treat the walls with wideband absorption anyhow. 3. EXTRA CREDIT Question: The test "Fails" the first formula under the Computed Information > R. Walker BBC 1996 heading but the corresponding linked document states that this formula is for a classical music "listening room" is this a problem for my vocal booth? Should I ignore this line altogether? I would guess the first dimensions I indicated (7'3"L x 4'7"W x 6'9"H) might be the best for my situation acoustically, but in terms of width I would also be loosing 5 inches of already cramped space. And if the problems caused by the second set of dimensions (7'3"L x 5'W x 6'7"H) are easy to correct, I'd rather have the extra width. Does it even matter that much? I'm driving myself nuts here trying to wrap my mind around this design.
Aloha Kendale and Thanks for the reply! I must tell you, over the past year or so, you've become one of my heroes on this forum. Your craftsmanship is awesome (so is your backyard by the way) and I was initially modeling my room conversion after yours but decided to splay my walls when I suddenly "found" some extra money (I love my wife :-)).
My ceiling is 9 ft. I was excited when I started reading your response but I am confused about the inner-dimensions of the proposed vocal booth due to the way my walls are angled. Would I use the average distance between two walls when they're angled?
When it comes to slot resonator walls, I think I've read to tune them to 150-500 hz, does this sound right to you?
I'm sorry for so many questions but I feel overwhelmed at this point.
Aloha Kelly,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad that you've found the posts & pics helpful and encouraging, but the thanks really should go to Steve, John, Aaron, Peter, Rod and everyone else who has shared their time, knowledge, resources and experience with the rest of us.
You are a fortunate man. :wink: I am happy for you that you were able to build in your treatments. Perhaps someday I may be able to do the same.I was initially modeling my room conversion after yours but decided to splay my walls when I suddenly "found" some extra money (I love my wife ).
9 feet! You are a fortunate man, indeed! Some of the guys here having posting anywheres from 6'4" - 7'9". On the previous post where I wrote:My ceiling is 9 ft. I was excited when I started reading your response but I am confused about the inner-dimensions of the proposed vocal booth due to the way my walls are angled. Would I use the average distance between two walls when they're angled?
and after re-reading some of the info posted below, I am now understanding that:My understanding of small vocal booth/voice-over treatments tend to lean toward the "dead" side.
and:A vocal booth needs to be quite dead with no apparent room sound if you want a tight vocal sound. When I say dead I mean right across the frequency spectrum which requires various absorbers aimed at different frequency ranges. John Sayers
Here's a few quotes & links from John and Steve on vocal booths: Vocal Booth Acoustic Treatment - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpeg Venting a Vocal Booth - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpeg Vocal Booths - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ?p=443#443 Building a Vocal Booth - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpeg Iso Booth Ideas - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... booth+jpegThe main thing is to not kill the highs and to make sure you lower the low-mids. - John Sayers
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=443#443 A vocal booth need to be quite dead with no apparent roomsound if you want a tight vocal sound. When I say dead I mean right across the frequency spectrum which requires various absorbers aimed at different frequency ranges. Have you been to the SAE site? check out absorbers. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html cheers, john
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=948&highlight=vocal+booth+jpeg Mode-wise, a 5 x 6 x 7 (inside) booth looks very good. It will also fit into an 8 foot ceilinged area if necessary, and is big enough for 3 (very) friendly vocalists or 1-2 with a guitar, so that's what I'm going to start with. Once I finish (don't stop breathing while you wait, I have 'way too many projects still open) you could change dimensions to suit, just do NOT make any two dimensions the same, or more than one dimension in even # of feet. Steve
There is some great info and a formula for tuning a helmholtz resonator here: http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html (click on absorber tabs on left, mid freq tab at top)When it comes to slot resonator walls, I think I've read to tune them to 150-500 hz, does this sound right to you?
I know that feeling. :wink: Take your time, though. It's better to ask your questions first (and much easier), than having to tear down something that doesn't work after the fact (and much less expensive.) Hope some of this helps, Aloha 8)I'm sorry for so many questions but I feel overwhelmed at this point.
Aloha Kelly,
Say, any chance you might resize the VOCAL BOOTH 04 16 06.JPG down to about 600 pixels wide? It would make reading the posts a lot easier and eliminate having to scroll back and forth so much. (If you were to copy & paste the drawing to Windows Paint and trim off the excess white areas, that might help.)
Thanks! :wink:
Aloha 8)
Aloha Kelly,
You and me, both. While I haven't completely grasped the finer points, basically, what you/we want to avoid is a square or a cube, which you've done. :wink:. I've read somewhere here on the forum that once the walls are angled, it becomes very difficult to calculate what the room modes and axial standing waves are. Perhaps John, Steve or Rod might be able to help more in depth. Aloha 8)I am confused about the inner-dimensions of the proposed vocal booth due to the way my walls are angled. Would I use the average distance between two walls when they're angled?
Thanks once again for taking the time to provide such a detailed response. The links you included were very helpful and a few that I don't recall ever seeing before.
I hope to have some progress to share before too long. For now I'm off to shop for wall plates :)
If you angle walls you can get close to what the modes will be by using the average distance between them; the good news is, the modes will be less pronounced due to the non-parallel walls. The bad news is that it's not practical to try and calculate, much easier to just measure with a program like ETF/R&D, etc.
If you decide on using slat resonators, do NOT use the calculator at the SAE site; it has the wrong formula, as do 99% of the calculators on the web. Instead, use the one in the "stickies" in the Acoustics forum... Steve