floating floor alternative - Soundblok?

I've got a the typical detached garage scenario...loud guitar amps & quiet neighbors. In the course of designing my soon to be constructed studio, I've been looking for a way to avoid floating my floor. Soundblok? SoundBlok is claimed to have an STC of 27db A 4" concrete slab has an STC of 37db @ 63 hz (from one of Dan Fitzpatrick's threads). That's a combined STC of 64db! Good enough for me. Now, the stuff is stupid expensive; but I really only have to use it in my (5'x12') booth. I've got two friends, each working professionally in the music industry, who have used this stuff with great success. Could this stuff be the answer to my prayers?? http://truesoundcontrol.com/products/SBLK430.html

I am also interested in finding out how good this is, then finding a similar product in australia

You cannot add two materials' STC ratings together and come to a sum total. It's an exponential thing. A rule of thumb is that each doubling of mass increases TL by about 6db. Soundblock, a.k.a. Mass Loaded Vinyl or "MLV" for short, is a waste of money. See the "MLV or NOT" thread. Your "two friends in the music industry" wasted their money. They could have used less expensive conventional products and achieved similar or superior results. In my opinion, your friends are suffering from a combination of placebo effect and denial -- everyone wants to "feel" that what they buy and use is good, even if it isn't true. This is true of so many things in life -- dietary supplements to "detoxify the body," fuel additives to "increase mileage" and/or to "prolong engine life," magnetic jewelry to "eliminate joint pain," etc., ad nauseum. Be wary of STC claims from soundproofing product manufacturers, some of whom we refer to as "snake oil salesmen." Without documentation of expensive third party lab testing to prove it, it's a worthless claim. Also beware of implicit claims to "just add this to your wall -- it has an STC rating of X" because the purveyor is suggesting (i.e., implicitly lying) that you can add the STC rating to the STC rating of what you're attaching it to. Finally, understand that STC ratings are rather meaningless when it comes to studio design -- STC weighting only takes a limited frequency range into account (125Hz to 4KHz) which is associated with the human voice -- so, while STC may an especially useful yardstick to use when building offices or hotel rooms, the low end and high end blind spots inherent in STC makes it a trivial measurement in a studio context. I will be the first to admit that I almost fell for the MLV joke. It was a little over a year ago when I started research for my project, and it was before I discovered this site. Thankfully I did my due diligence, which saved me a lot of money and heartache when it would have inevitably failed to perform its promise. Thanks for posting your question. Many have the same question, and will have the question in the future. The truth must be known about this stuff. --Keith :mrgreen:

Chris, in addition to bursting your bubble (sorry, we didn't MAKE these rules of physics :( ) just how "detached" is your garage, and how far away are your (sick, twisted) "quiet" neighbors? The best way to get the most info in the shortest number of posts is to use the topmost thread in each forum ("don't even think....) as a CHECKLIST - that way you'll be less likely to omit details that we NEED in order to help you reach a workable plan of attack - so if you can start there, it'll let us get you going quicker... Steve

Thanks for the replies. Let's fill in the gaps here: - Location: Nashville, TN - I am only using this room as a "guitar player for hire" overdub room. - (fully) detached garage, cinderblock construction built on concrete slab; pitched roof - (interior dimensions) 26'wide x 30' deep x 15' high (at the highest point in the attic). Current ceiling is 8' - The building has been partially converted into an apartment. The "garage" is 14' wide x 21' deep. Apartment is "L" shaped...bottom of the "L" is the back side of the building; tall leg of the "L" is the entire right side of the building - Interior walls separating the garage & apartment are typical single frame (double leaf?)...definitely non loadbearing; will be ripped out. - Steel girder running down the centerline of the building - The closest neighbor is apx. 40 feet from the front right corner of the building. - The booth(s) will be along the left side from the rear left corner (5'wide x 18 deep" x 8' high. The vocal booth will occupy the corner, and will serve as an airlock for the "amp booth" . - The front 10' of the building will be used for storage/lounge. - In the design's current form (room within exterior walls), the control room will be 15' wide x 18' deep, centered along the back wall of the building. That leaves 4' along the right exterior wall (there's a bathroom there already), and 5' along the left exterior wall (a convenient place for my booths) . - The control room dimensions reflect the space I have to work with (obviously, I don't want a perfect rectangle). -noise level outside is apx. 45db to 50db. I anticipate my guitar amps being as loud as 110db. I don't listen that loud in the control room, probably no louder than 90db. My concern is how much amp noise will go through the floor. I would prefer not to tear in to the slab if I can get away with it. I read (here) that just getting the amps off the floor effectively "floats" them to the tune of 7db or something like that. What's the most cost effective way to soundproof the floor of my amp booth?

I have a sketchup image at home. I'm on vacation; I'll try to get it emailed to me so I can post it. The JPEG will make things a little clearer I think.

I should mention that I take possesion of the property at the end of the month (January 2006) The garage is front left(yellow); the kitchen is front right(orange); the bathroom is along the right side (green); the bedroom/living area is the back section (violet)

So I'll steal a few feet from the garage (which will be used for storage only); I'll probably keep all the kitchen counters etc (along the right wall). Vocal booth (red) Amp booth(yellow) bathroom (still on the right) closet(s) (aqua) kitchen/lounge (orange) garage/storage (green)

You're only doing guitar, not bass? I'd be tempted to do a full floated floor since you don't need to get as low a msm resonance with an octave (or more) less low end... Steve

anyone showing up with a four or five string instrument will be promptly escorted off the premises. :twisted: In all seriousness, I don't play bass. This is my personal overdub room, so I don't need to worry about much under 80hz. My biggest concern is getting the job for no more than $20k. If you think that's doable float the floor in the booth, then well...maybe I should!

I'm not clear on your intentions yet; are you saying you will rip out all the interior walls and use ALL that space, or will the apartment stay and be used by someone NOT wanting to listen to your guitar molestations, or??!? Steve

The entire space is mine for the taking. The closest set of ears (to be molested ) is 40' from the front right corner. I would like to keep a (14'wide x 10'deep) storage space. The garage makes the most sense for this, don't you think? The space next to it (front right), is currently a (full) kitchen; that space will become a (12' x 10') lounge. In the end, if I can crank a guitar amp 110db at 3am without bothering the neighbor...I'll be happy.

Couldn't you build a "micro booth" for your guitar amp to go in and then put that in the isolation booth? There are a few building plans around the net for such boxes and they perport to have 30 or 40 dB of TL just by themselves. If that box is put into another well built room and perhaps set on a air mattress (to prevent flanking through the floor), I'm sure you'd get the isolation you need. What does your $20K budget have to cover? The purchase of the garage and "enhancements" or just to conversion? Does the garage part of the building have a garage door on it? If so, this may be the hardest part to sound proof especially if you want to keep the door functional in case you sell it later. len

Dunno, the smaller the box the worse the sound in my experience. One thing that MIGHT help though, is a micro-powered amp - one that's already "balls out" at 80 dB instead of 110 - So basically, you're willing to gut the place to the outside studs and start over? Piece of cake... :wink:

So you're saying I have the budget to float the floor of the booth, correct? Hotplate (amp attenuator) is an option. However, I would like the option of running amps loud & proud. I am not opposed to sacrificing control room space, although I'll need room for guitars, amp heads, and a large pedalboard...plus room for clients (2 or 3 at most).

len-morgan wrote:

What does your $20K budget have to cover? The purchase of the garage and "enhancements" or just to conversion? Does the garage part of the building have a garage door on it? If so, this may be the hardest part to sound proof especially if you want to keep the door functional in case you sell it later. len

$20k is for construction & HVAC...probably some sort of upgrade to the electricity (wired for 3 phase). There is a garage door front, left; that part of the space (14'w x 10'd) will be storage.