Songwriter's studio - 12'x12' mix room, other recording room

Please review the following conceptual design for a one-room studio in my home. The 12' x 12' study will be converted for use as a studio for songwriting, recording, and mixing acoustic and electric guitar, electric bass, vocals - drums will be MIDI. Noise will not be a problem since I live in a quiet cul-de-sac in a residental area. I will not be recording loud rock bands - just me - so I don't have to worry about the neighbors. As for the budget, I think $15K should probably cover the materials. I am doing all the work myself. The existing structure is 2x4 w/ drywall, brick masonry exterior, slab on grade. Please review these design sketches. They were created on AutoCAD. (Edit: SketchUp is really easy to use - I love it!) I have not started producing any construction details yet - I want to finalize the basic layout in regard to acoustics and functionality. Best regards and many thanks...

Here is a 3D version drawn in SketchUp - a plan, section looking rearward, and looking forward from behind the mix position. It appears the soffit angles may need to be ajusted slightly, but that is a construction detail I'd address later in the design process. Likewise, all the traps and resonators will be sealed even though I didn't show that level of detail on my sketches. Outer walls are double layers of drywall on resiliant channels, etc. QUESTION: I'm curious if there is any functional difference between the upper section of the soffit and the lower section. If the purpose of the traps is to convert the sound energy into heat by vibrating the fibers of the insulation, what difference does it make if the pressure waves encounter a constant density obstacle (upper section) or a variable density obstacle (bass trap hangers) if the total mass of the two is the same? QUESTION: Also, if the sound energy level is zero at the wall surface, does lining the wall surfaces with insulation provide enough attenuation to justify its installation?

Here's a view cut thru the soffit. That's a really huge space behind the angled portion of the soffit - looks like a great place for traps.

Aloha and welcome to the forum, :D Nice drawings! Here's a couple of soffit diagrams for your files. Regarding the angle of your soffit walls; I've read this here (in several posts)

officially it is 30 degrees but I've worked sucessfully at 45. cheers, john

Hope this helps. Aloha 8)

Thanks kendale for your input. I've seen both of these diagrams and what they show is pretty much what I'm proposing. You'll notice however that these diagrams are somewhat generic and don't reflect actual conditions. For example, the area behind the speaker is shown as a small space - too small for anything other than packed insulation to prevent resonance, however in reality it will be a rather large space. Now that I've modeled the soffit, I see even my sketch will have to be revised, pending the resolution of the issues I raised. :) As for the soffit angle, I was referring to the vertical angle, currently set at 15 degrees. The speaker angle will remain at 90 degrees and hence the soffit at 45 degrees. I did a layout with the speaker angle at 60 degrees and it didn't fit the space available very well - the mix position was limited by the 30 degree soffit angle to the rear of the room. The 90 degree angle results in a more compact work area, desirable given the small size of the room. The construction of the slat resonators and rear traps will be fairly straightforward. I'm interested to hear comments on the ceiling trap and any recommendations or suggestions regarding its role in the overall acoustics of the room. By the way, my monitors are passive and ported. Keep those comments coming... :D

Here is a full height bass trap positioned in the rear corner of my room. The walls to the left and right have 3" mineral wool batts. The hangers are typical construction. The angled wall section directly in front of the hangers will be covered with FR701 fabric. The triangular shaped cavity will be sealed to the wall and airtight even though I didn't show it for the sake of simplicity (I only have 30 more minuted on my 8 hour demo version of SketchUp). QUESTION: What would be the difference between simply insulating the framing directly in front of the trap with 3" mineral wool, similar to the side walls, or creating a dampened panel with a port at the bottom similar to the lower section of the soffit bass trap? Both would have absorbent facings (i.e. the mineral wool covered in fabric), but the latter would have a dampened resonating panel on the backside of the framing. Would either design perform the intended function? Edit: I just found this post on traps. It explains the difference between resonate and absorbent traps, but doesn't answer these questions. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4402 Question: If corner traps are absorbent then why does the soffit section provided by Mr Sayers have a plywood panel and a port on the lower section. This seems like a "mixed metaphor" - combining two designs that work on different principles.

Here's a good example: Should the framing in front of these traps be simply covered with fabric, or should a plywood panel be attached with a port at the bottom or top?

Hi Don, I got your email. Well, I've been out of the studio design loop for a while, concentrating on the speaker business. However, I haven't stopped thinking about all this stuff. I don't have a lot of time to write a detailed post, but I'll just throw this little bomb into the water. -I'm seriously starting to change my position on the efficacy of soffit mounting.- The more I talk to recording, mix and mastering engineers, the more they tell me they just cant get good results from soffit mounted monitors. They mainly just use them for impressing the clients. In other threads I've discussed the benefits of soffit mounting. And those principles haven't changed - less diffraction, reflection free zone, and a flat power response. And those are great in theory, but the major problem is that the vast majority of end listeners do not have soffit mounted speakers. They listen to freestanding speakers, which have that +6dB low-end power response step I've described. Likewise, I've learned that car audio designers often tune their systems to emulate the power response of freestanding speakers. So from a translation perspective a flat anechoic response combined with a +6dB low-end power response step is superior. All this is leading me to the conclusion that a freestanding system is better. Of course, you still have the problem of wall reflections. Therefore, you have to think very carefully about wall and window angles, the liberal use of diffusion, and the judicious placement of absorption. I haven't had time to think about the details of such a design, but I'm definitely leaning in that direction now. Hope this doesn't cause you a headache. ;) Thomas

Oh yeah, if you choose to take my words to heart and have already commenced with a soffit design, all is not lost. The solution is to tailor the ambient room absorption so that it emulates that +6dB low shelf response; or more exactly in the case of absorption, a -6dB high shelf response. In fact, this may turn out to be the best overall design. However, there are issues with reverberation time and such that need to be considered, so it definitely needs to be investigated further .

Here are several alternate layouts with a 1:1.28:1.54 room ratio in response to knightfly's comments here: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=38144#3144 Please comment. :idea:

Here is a layout that includes angled walls of studs and drywall instead of a resonate space with slats. This should take care of the axial mode problem while maximizing floor space. The drywall will be removed from the existing walls. If I substitute slats for the drywall on the new side walls, wouldn't that put me right back where I was with the original square space? I'd like to include some broadband absorbsion besides just the rear wall. Besides, those slat resonators are such a cool looking architectural element. By the way - in regards to my original plan with the 45 degree speaker angle and the 12'x12' shell - wouldn't the absorbtion in all four corners, the ceiling, the entire back wall, and the slat resonators on the side walls covering three to six inches of insulation take care of any axial mode problems associated with the outer shell's square shape? I've been reading Newell's book Recording Studio Design. He claims that angled walls reduce modal energy only above 200 Hz, that below 100 Hz angled walls are acoustically parallel and can only be treated with absorbtion. This seems to indicate that the degree of absorbent and reflective surfaces included in my original layout are in agreement with his findings. Any comments?

It's been over three weeks now and no one has participated in this post. I certainly expected more response from this forum. :( I had intended to document the construction and testing of my various rooms for all to reference, but I see no point if no one is interested enough to participate in a dialogue. As perhaps my final post I'll just say I have several reference books on studio design and construction that I will rely on in the absence of any input from the forum. Best regards to all and good luck with your projects. :D Dsanders

Dsanders - there's really nothing to add - you have it perfectly under control - the reason for the panel below the speaker si to extend the speaker baffle below the speaker - it's covered in 703 to reduce rear reflections from the console coming back to bite you ;) cheers john

Hey Dsanders, if you do come back to this post, I'm interested!!!! I just read your hopefully not final words. I can relate to your dilemma on putting the puzzle together ending up with the most space in the room, making the room sound good and a billion other issues :shock: I have viewed this post many times and didn't feel comfortable & knowledgeable enough to respond until I read your last post. Your diagrams have helped me realize a few things, thanks :D Your diagrams are well done especially in showing comparisons and alterations to the same space. I've saved some to my harddrive. As construction approaches for me, I do plan to do a thread with it even if no one else posts because taking the time to document and write it out helps me organize the baffling amount of info I'm consuming. Hopefully that will help someone else out too which I think is the idea of this forum, were all learning from one another trying not to make the other guys mistakes. Trying to stop my babbling... I’m off to brutalize my own design for the 100th time… I’m working on my outer walls… to be “L” or rectangle shaped and then suffer acoustically consequences in order to maximize space and comfort. I just hope I can make my designs clear enough (like yours) for someone like John to say... yup thats good. Marc

guitardad72 wrote:

I can relate to your dilemma on putting the puzzle together ending up with the most space in the room, making the room sound good and a billion other issues

Thanks for your interest and taking the time to post. I may use this thread as kind of a journal documenting the adventure, like you said, and as an encouragement to others like yourself. I've worked in design and construction all my life so I'm fairly knowledgable and handy with a hammer - actually I mostly use a nailgun these days. By the way, I was referred to this post yesterday and spent several hours browsing through it. You may have already seen it but it's so elaborate I have to at least mention it. http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=107 I can't say I like the color scheme he chose, but the effort and craftmanship he put into his studio is worth a medal or something. Anyway, I've come up with what I believe is my final design. None of my questions have been answered to my complete satisfaction, but my personal motto is "I can do anything", so I'll just rely on my own research and critical reasoning faculties to forge ahead. When the room is complete, I'll test it and make any appropriate adjustments. What else can I do? The issue of room modes would have to be addressed regardless of its dimensions. Even though it is based on a square room, with the ceiling trap, the corner traps, the sidewall resonators, and the absorbent rear wall it should have enough absorbtion to mediate any adverse effects. If not, I'll just have to deal with it since this is the space I have to work with. I'm modifing a couple of other rooms in my home also. The living room holds my wife's Yamaha C2 grand, so I'll be treating that room to provide an environment that combines playing and listening pleasure, but also provides a recording environment that allows me to capture the piano's incredible sound. At the rear of our home the previous owners enclosed the patio. All the siding and the wood windows rotted out, so I am currently replacing the rear wall and, as long as I'm at it, revamping the interior acoustics with bass traps and resonators in the ceiling. The room will be a media room - a "home theater" of sorts, but will also double as a recording room for guitar. My son is an incredible guitarist even though he plays that long-haired hippie music. :wink: I might even do some work in his bedroom, but that will probably be only wall treatment and will not involve construction. I look forward to keeping up with your project. I'll make suggestions if I think they will help. :D

I'm also considering these monitors by JBL - LSR4328P @ $1400 a pair: http://www.jblpro.com/lsr/lsr4328P.html They come with a software calibration program that compensates for room modes. Pretty cool! :D I have a pair of Alesis Monitor One(s) that I've used for about ten years, but it's time to upgrade. I plan on spending less than $2000. I'm also considering the Tannoy Reveal or Precision 8D, the Yamaha MSP10, and the Mackie HR824. These are all within my price range. The next step up is around 5K. That's more than I'm willing to spend given their intended purpose. I'm a big believer in analysing the Cost/Benefit Ratio for anything I do, whether the cost is money or time. I think many people get caught up in trying to achieve sonic perfection in their design and construction. It's like producing songwriting demos - it doesn't matter how perfect or beautiful the production, if the song has nothing to say, who will listen? I intend on building a room with manageable acoustics where I can concentrate on writing songs that make others question who they are and what they are doing with their life, with developing memorable and singable melodies, with building my kid's (and wife) confidence in themselves thru letting them hear how well they play and sing. That's what it's all about for me - not to detract from anyone else who aspires to operate a project or commercial studio - but that's not my goal. I'm not producing a finished product for commercial release. Perhaps if my songs are good enough, someone will take them to Nashville and record them in a top studio. That's my goal.

By the way, I was referred to this post yesterday and spent several hours browsing through it. You may have already seen it but it's so elaborate I have to at least mention it. http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.p ... a50e2c59ce

That is a lengthy thread at 123 pages :shock: it will take me more then one sitting to get through. I had not seen it before (I think), thanks for the link.

None of my questions have been answered to my complete satisfaction

Yup I know that feeling, I design part of the room, question something, search for the answer, then cycle through a design and search type mission.

I'll just have to deal with it since this is the space I have to work with

Yup, anything will be better then my current work area.

my wife's Yamaha C2 grand,

My wife is a trained violinist... and I've never heard her play it :roll:

My son is an incredible guitarist even though he plays that long-haired hippie music.

Hmmm... "Never trust a short haired musician" I've gigged for a living 99% my working life (I'm 33) and truthfully I've had more trouble with the short hairs.

They come with a software calibration program that compensates for room modes. Pretty cool!

Ethan Winner has an extensive web page: Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms The section "SIDEBAR: FINE TUNING THE CONTROL ROOM" has info about fine tuning speakers. The entire article is more then more sitting for me to go through and take in. I have a set of Event TR8. They were $500 for the pair. I came to conclusion they were the best rated in that price range, though I've never had them set up in a decent environment to really hear them. I would have gone for the Mackie HR824 if my budget would have allowed. I have a set of Mackie C300's for live use and they kick. BTW my ears get extremely abused acoustically from the amount of live work I do. I always do sound from stage, in many different rooms, with different equipment, players and singers 5 to 10 times a week. I'll mix the fronts while standing behind them with no monitors a lot... sheer joy. I usually get a good sound but time & venue limitations force me to just run with it a lot. I can't wait to have a good sounding room. I like your goal in relation to your family; it seems personal, self motivating with intent of inspiration. I have 3 friends who are either in Nashville or constantly making trips and phone calls to Nashville chasing the songwriting dream. What a scene that is. :? Friend 1, is a pretty good songwriter/lyricist with meat in his subject but not a great guitar player who struggles with more then 4 chords in a song. Left to his owns devices will record a horrible sounding demo. Friend 2, is worthy of guitar hero status, records great sounding demos, works in a timely manner, has taken Berkley song writing courses in Boston, has moved to Nashville but the meat in lyrically subject of songs is equal to raw hotdog. Worst of all he does not understand the difference between a hotdog and steak. Friend 3, great guitar and vocals, very good lyricist, has done great demos in Nashville with the “in circle players” but he is the guitar player without a girlfriend we all joke about, the homeless one who can't keep anything straight for more then a few months. Who has the most success? Friend 1, because he's offering what they need good songs with a pro attitude and consistent approach. The game in Nashville is really about selling songs. I don’t understand it completely but am convinced there are 100’s of hit songs that get lost every year in Nashville due to the shopping process and having songs put “on hold”. My admission of the day: I can sure babble. Marc

I did review your last design, but decided to go off topic with the last post. :D What's your plan for Isolation? How are you going to treat the existing walls if at all? Looks like your just going to leave existing walls alone, what are they made of? You're not going with a sub floor? You are going to remove existing ceiling and utilize attic space or is the ceiling already cathedral? It doesn't appear to be cathedral as is. That's a great spot for low end treatment as shown in your earlier section design. That is a similar ceiling/attic space as: LaptopPop's Studio Might be worth it to post pictures(s) of existing space. And I'm impressed with the removable baffle in the window. I had a big fight with myself taking the one and only window out of my own room design. Marc

The whole house is wood framing on a concrete slab - no cinder block in Texas. Termites, but no cinder block. The interior walls will not be true walls - simply frames to support 3" mineral wool batts and are covered with cloth or slats, depending on where they are located. The rear wall and ceiling will be absorbent, the side walls will have variable depth slat resonators, and the front walls will be partially reflective (upper half) and partially absorbent (lower half). The existing drywall will all be removed, the insulation replaced w/ mineral wool, and two layers of 5/8" type X drywall will be installed on RC on the walls. The ceiling will be covered in fabric. I'll add additional 2x6 rafters alongside the existing to carry the weight of the drywall. The existing rafters are already stressed enough with the composite roof. They were designed for a lightweight cedar shingle roof, but those have been outlawed due to the fire hazard. The floor will be 1/2" fiberboard over a concrete slab on grade, topped with two layers of 3/4" plywood and 3/4" hardwood flooring. I don't think I'll need more isolation than this, as I'm in a residental neighborhood on a cul-de-sac. I just need a quiet place to be creative - no drums or metal bands. I think it will be adequate for the intended purpose. I've angled the monitors down ten degrees to remove the computer monitors from the sound path and to provide optimal coverage whether I'm sitting at the desk or seated in the chair relaxing. Two absorbers to the right and left of the mix position cancel any side reflections. I have a design for a window baffle I'l try to post this weekend along with design for the other recording room.

I'll go ahead and post these sketches of the other room I'm working on. It'll be a home theater type room but with acoustics suitable for recording - hopefully. If nothing else it will be visually interesting. I may not have much time this weekend for posting. My wife is really pushing me to record her playing her piano. She has an online recital next Wednesday on the classical forum she frequents. I just upgraded from Cubase VST to Cubase SX3 and bought a Yamaha 01X control surface. Needless to say there is a substancial learning curve to negotiate made all the more difficult with her practicing in the background (acoustic pianos are LOUD!) and taking frequent breaks to ask me if I'm ready yet. :roll: I finally had to tell her "HEY - you're stressin' me out!", so I now have all weekend to learn everything. :lol: She's kinda' hard to stay mad at though. By the way, this year is our twenty year anniversary :D The bottom sketch has a set of dimensions on the left side that show the speaker position I used to check reflections. I'll post a sketchup file and some pics later (after I finish Kelly's recording)...

Congrats on the 20 years with your wife. :D I hope you have a great weekend and celebration. Our 5th year anniversary is coming up, got to think of that special gift. You got yours picked out yet? Last year I got my wife a Crape Myrtle Tree. BTW thanks for the conversion on our threads, I appreciate it. It’s a weird feeling having no one to “shop talk” with who’s actually interested in designing a sound room. I’m learning to approach the subject carefully with my wife and co-workers as it can bore them to tears. I look forward to reviewing more of your design for the other rooms and seeing pictures once you start actual construction of rooms. I take it that picture is of your wife? If so, you’re a lucky man. And a side question, how did you make out during the past hurricane season? I was happy to not have to board up the house and evacuate. My only real problem was getting a hold of Yahoo customer service during one of the storms, they are located in Houston and we’re shut down at the point were my own website was down. It was down for a week till they got back in there office. Marc

You got yours picked out yet?

Yes, she knows what she wants :wink: (yes, that's her pic. She hates it by the way)) I'm planning on buying her a second band to fit on the other side of her wedding band. She doesn't know, but she told me years ago she wanted one for a milestone anniversary. I think twenty years qualifies :!: It's not till July 26th, so I have plenty of time. As for the hurricane, we thought we would have to evac, but at the last minute the storm turned east and hit Beaumont. We live on the west side of Houston so all we received was a breezy evening. People we know tried to evac but only succeded in spending the night in their cars gridlocked on the freeway. I'd rather take my chances in the storm :shock:

It’s a weird feeling having no one to “shop talk” with who’s actually interested in designing a sound room.

I know what you mean. Now if I could only find someone who lives close and takes songwriting seriously... By the way, my mom owned every Neil Diamond album ever made when I was a kid. I grew up listening to that stuff. Sweet Caroline, dat, da, dum...

I know what you mean. Now if I could only find someone who lives close and takes songwriting seriously...

Well, I've been working with an old friend of mine in Canada; I am from Canada and moved to Florida in 1999. I'm not done with my part of the project yet... I've done harmony vocals, guitars, bass, keys and fixed up the drums and still have a lot more to do on the tracks. It will be my 1st task once studio is up. I've been refrained by current working location. I'll be mixing it all out to the end. Thing is he recorded his part with band members in Halifax (my home town), I'm working on it hear and I have a drummer on it who lives close to me but we've never stepped in each others house. That's 3 locations all connected through the internet. The biggest file transfers are from the drummer sending 10 tracks and take over an hour through the net. That's not a lot of time. I email the drummer a MP3 click on one side, tracks on the other. Once the file transfer comes back I line it up all up in Protools. Pretty cool, but don't ask me for a copy of anything write now I still got work to do. The Neil thing is a complete accident. Marc

Sandersd wrote:

I'm also considering these monitors by JBL - LSR4328P @ $1400 a pair:

You might want to look at the big brother JBL's LSR6328P $2k a pair, but a big step up. I'm saving for mine right now. :wink:

chrisgraff wrote:

You might want to look at the big brother JBL's LSR6328P $2k a pair, but a big step up. I'm saving for mine right now. :wink:

As a matter of fact, I went to listen to the 4328's Friday and instead listened to the 6328's. They sounded great. I forgot to bring my own CDs so I couldn't do any critical evaluation, but I'm definately adding them to my list. By the way, I ordered Russ Long's Guide to Nashville Recording - way cool DVD :D