Hi. I have been using this forum as a resource for some time now and am finally making my first post! I hope I follow all the guidelines for posting correctly..
After reading many posts it seems that much emphasis is put on proper power implementation/wiring to achieve high quality and noise/hum/ groundloop-free audio/video playback. I am in the process of building a garage studio (control room) and am nearing the end of framing it out. I have an electrician coming tomorrow (12/15) and have put together a diagram plotting where and how I would like power run throughout the studio.
In a nutshell I do all types of post production sound and picture work, as well as instrumental tracking/mixing. To give you some perspective of what is located where within the studio, I have a workstation (desk) that I will situate in front of what used to be the garage door entry way, any clients with me will sit behind me on the “raised” floor area at a nice tall desk.
Basically I have three dedicated circuits at the garage. All three of them are running back to my house panel:
One 20 amp circuit I was thinking of dedicating to speakers ONLY. I will have a 5.1 monitoring setup..and maybe some alternate front pairs, hence the AC locations for that circuit.
The other 20 amp circuit I was thinking of putting all my other studio gear on (G5 system with cinema displays and 5 external hard drives, MOTU 896 audio interface, about 5 pieces of rack gear ranging from a VCR to a lexicon MPX1 to a headphone dist. amp, other misc low power consump gear, 42" plasma TV, eventual ProtoolsHD system)
The 15 amp circuit I was thinking of putting all my lighting on as well as other non studio gear such as phones, iMac computer, desk lamps, and general AC usage for clients (laptop power, cell phone chargers, etc)
The tracks on the ceiling will supply all the ceiling lighting in the studio. I would like each track on a dimmer for flexibility. Seems like I would need variac dimmers like the STACO 511/501 for trouble-free dimming but that may get too $$.
I was also going to implement a star grounding system for the 2 20 amp circuits. After reading up it would seem that I would independently run the ground from each outlet to an independent ground rod...possibly one the electrician could install right next to the studio. Is this correct for the star system? Sounds like I should use metal conduit for the ground runs in this system. Do I also need conduit for all the other AC line runs through the framing?
Is the layout I have designed overkill? It would seem to be with 20 boxes (I can’t even imagine how much conduit/wire I would need!! Perhaps I can put ALL my studio gear, speakers, CPU, and all on one 20 amp circuit and figure out some other usage for the extra 20 amper? I just figure why not go nuts if the costs do not get too high. I always thought it would be nice to have independent control of the powering of my gear.
I will be mounting about 2.5" of additional acoustical "treatment" on top of the gypsum so would probably surface mount the boxes on the wall/ceiling. The floor would seem a good place for boxes for my upper deck area.
I was also trying to figure out how to include clean power (like via a furman PL8) for all the speakers with my current possible wiring setup.
I have very little low voltage stuff...just some video cabling for the plasma on the "garage door" wall, and some mic ties from my office across the hall....so I will not need to worry about running audio/video and AC lines too close..
Thank you for any help and for putting up with my minimal knowledge on the topic (and high volume of written info)
:oops:
Is this overkill? Studio AC wiring layout
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 4846.
Greetings and Welcome to the site.
First off, it's hard to be overkill w/ a number of outlets in a recording studio. There's always something to plug in. :lol:
One thing you may consider, is putting a subpanel in the studio.
Conduits are nice, because you can pull multiple wires through for outlets. And all wires are together (Hot, Common, Ground) for codes reasons. Such as this... http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... &start=147
As you see in those pictures, I dedicated a circuit to each monitor (also 5.1 setup) for the most flexibility. I also currently have provisions for 20 isolated ground duplex outlets just in the Control Room alone. And they're all being used.
I'll add more later. Gotta get back to work...
It's TODAY - best I can suggest is to print out the thread(s) on star grounding here, and have your electrician read them; anything he/she disagrees with you should ask about BEFORE the work gets done.
Unless you get lucky, it's not likely your electrician has done technical power installs and may not see the reasons for some of these points... Steve
Welcome to the forum. 8) Nice drawing, by the way!
Wow...looks like I got the cream of the crop for repliers :D
Thank you for your input. I reviewed the star grounding diagram with my electrician as well as AaronW's pictures (very impressive BTW...some of the best conduit runs my electrician had ever seen..our jaws were literally on the ground). We then also reviewd my specifications regarding my proposed AC layout. Unfortunately his estimate was (understandably) WAY to high for my modest $2000 electrical budget (labor and parts). I am attaching an up to date illustration of the studios current design state to meet this budget.
My push to get this project done fast has unfortunately left me with very little time to be as thourough and meticulous as I usually am on such projects. My total budget is around $8000 which I have found to be extremely tight to say the least :shock:
This budget is for EVERYTHING A-Z (designing,building, finishing, and acoustical design...yea, I know...RIGHT!!!)
This forum is my savior right now!! Thank you for the kind welcome guys. I have been following Sharward's work as well and am blown away at the professionalism of your project...
I will continue to post more details on what other choices I made for this project if anyone is interested.
:lol: I'm not worthy! :lol: But seriously... Thanks for the kind words. This just jumped out at me -- are you closing in your waterheater, and just leaving a little mini door to get to the control/thermocouple? If so, there's no way that will meet code, let alone work for you when (not "if") you need to replace the waterheater. :roll: I know you're on a budget, but you might consider changing out your water heater for a tankless model, like this one. You'll spend a lot for it (I think around $1,500 with installation, plus or minus), but it may pay for itself in terms of efficiency over the years, and you'll be able to reclaim the floorspace that your current tank takes up -- or at least not have to worry about enclosing it. Something to think about. --Keith :mrgreen:Wow...looks like I got the cream of the crop for repliers :D . . . Thank you for the kind welcome guys. I have been following Sharward's work as well and am blown away at the professionalism of your project...
More outlets is never bad, i have 3 circuits in my single room, one circuit is one side of the wall the other is the other side of the wall and one more for the cieling lighting. Never short an outlet, its nice.
Fill
Sharwood,
The H20 heater will not be enclosed, that black line on the left of it reperesents a 1.5' high box it is sitting on. It, along with the water softner, and storage, will be in that back room accessible by the door. The heater and softner will be able to be replaced when needed....jsut not as easily as from the front :wink:
I also am busting a vent hole through wall next to the H2O heater to the outside for fresh air as well as a spot to run the A/C Heater unit pipes through...just found out that the unit I am getting installed pulls about 10-12 amps so will need to run a new circuit from my house board...means I am gonna be up all night digging a trench from my house board to the condenser loaction as my electrician, whose last day is tomorrow, cannot return until after the unti is installed (and the unit will need the power!).
I am investigating what type of track lighting to buy...looking in Juno and Halo stuff as rec per my electrician. I am planning for four tracks on the ceiling...each wih independent dimmer control. Any suggestions as I am lookinig through the wealth of knowledge this forum offers??
This may or may not apply to you in San Diego, but check out this handy water heater document from the City of Camarillo. You may be on different model codes, so it's up to you to verify that.
By the way, I see your mini split, but I don't see your ventilation... What's your plan for fresh air?
You'll pay alot more for Juno products but they are nice and better quality than the Halo (Cooper) stuff. Not to say Halo is terrible. There's lots of cheap crud (HomeRepo) out there. Are you thinking LV track heads with built in Xformers, LV track system, or line voltage? Those LV heads have been known to make some field noise especially with dimmers (variac). Plus you need the non-mag type dimmers for the LV stuff I believe.$$$I am investigating what type of track lighting to buy...looking in Juno and Halo stuff as rec per my electrician. I am planning for four tracks on the ceiling...each wih independent dimmer control. Any suggestions as I am lookinig through the wealth of knowledge this forum offers??
Thank you for the link. My enclosure seems to meet most of the requirements that Camarillo has. I poked a large 5" by 20" vent hole through the house wall to the outside. I also have a "plug" on the inside studio wall in front of the heater for access to the heaters control area. If I pop the plug fresh air comes in nicely. To implement a AC/Heating ducted system with a fresh air intake was too $$...so I had to make some compromises. I was able to find someone to install the minisplit for $1500 ($750 for the units and the rest for labor)...will have to run a new 15amp circuit from the house board as the unit's 10amp load would totally tax what would have been my "lighting" circuit.This may or may not apply to you in San Diego, but check out this handy water heater document from the City of Camarillo. You may be on different model codes, so it's up to you to verify that. By the way, I see your mini split, but I don't see your ventilation... What's your plan for fresh air?
Yes, Juno seems more pricey but seems to have a quality build and has some nice looking models. I have little experience with lighting but was told by my electrician to look for, and I quote, "incandescent track heads with halogen bulbs" I assume this means the transformer is in the light head as opposed to on the track? After viewing the Juno website I left pretty confused as to which one of their many track products was suitable for my needs...I just want a track that I can attach more tracks to if I wanted, a track that connects to the AC line in the center of the track as opposed to the end, and non flashy 50-75 watt halogen heads with built in transformers. My electrician also suggested Lutron's "Diva" dimmers. I brought up AC noise getting into my audio signals and then showed him a forum topic regarding the variable power transformer dimmers and he said to try the Lutrons first before dropping the cash on something like the Staco's. Also, with four tracks, each needing independent dimming control, it would seem that I would need the equivalent of 4 2 gang boxes! That is a lot of boxes. If there was variable transformer that required a single gang box I would be more willing to just buy the things outright. Would a variable power transformer work with any lighting? If I had 2 75 watt halogen bulbs per track I would think that a variable dimmer rated at 1.5 amps would be ok? I also ran extra wire to mount wall sconses, 2 on each side of the room, each pair hopefully on their own dimmers as well. However, with my modest $500 lighting budget perhaps my Juno/Staco combo is not realistic...You'll pay alot more for Juno products but they are nice and better quality than the Halo (Cooper) stuff. Not to say Halo is terrible. There's lots of cheap crud (HomeRepo) out there. Are you thinking LV track heads with built in Xformers, LV track system, or line voltage? Those LV heads have been known to make some field noise especially with dimmers (variac). Plus you need the non-mag type dimmers for the LV stuff I believe.$$$
Yes, Juno seems more pricey but seems to have a quality build and has some nice looking models. I have little experience with lighting but was told by my electrician to look for, and I quote, "incandescent track heads with halogen bulbs" I assume this means the transformer is in the light head as opposed to on the track?
Those would be line voltage heads so no transformers
After viewing the Juno website I left pretty confused as to which one of their many track products was suitable for my needs...I just want a track that I can attach more tracks to if I wanted, a track that connects to the AC line in the center of the track as opposed to the end, and non flashy 50-75 watt halogen heads with built in transformers.
You'll want their standard line voltage track, a floating feed not an end feed. Again no transformers so you're saving $ right there.
My electrician also suggested Lutron's "Diva" dimmers. I brought up AC noise getting into my audio signals and then showed him a forum topic regarding the variable power transformer dimmers and he said to try the Lutrons first before dropping the cash on something like the Staco's. Also, with four tracks, each needing independent dimming control, it would seem that I would need the equivalent of 4 2 gang boxes! That is a lot of boxes. If there was variable transformer that required a single gang box I would be more willing to just buy the things outright.
I'm pretty sure you'll get noise off the Divas. Nice dimmers though.
Let me see if I understand this... You have a vent on the exterior wall to allow the water heater to breathe, and you have an access panel from the studio to the water heater controls, and you expect to use this trap door as your fresh air supply for the studio? If so, that will not pass code. Aside from the overall badness of trying to siphon off air that is intended for the water heater, you need to make up for the fact that you have no operable windows in your studio. Please do a search for "ventilation" by author "sharward" to see the threads in which I have covered this topic in a lot of detail. Not that I'm "the ventilation expert" around here, but I ran into this showstopper obstacle in my own project. I finally broke through that design barrier and I was able to secure my construction permit a couple of weeks later. And lest you think this is all just overkill and crazytalk, please review my "Permits, Codes, Licenses -- and WHY YOU SHOULD CARE!" thread. I realize you're under a tight budget... But if you don't have the money to follow code and follow safety laws, then you should put your project on hold and start saving your money so that you can do it right the first time. The hidden costs of cutting these critical corners could result in your losing all of your investment, or worse. :roll:. . . I poked a large 5" by 20" vent hole through the house wall to the outside. I also have a "plug" on the inside studio wall in front of the heater for access to the heaters control area. If I pop the plug fresh air comes in nicely. To implement a AC/Heating ducted system with a fresh air intake was too $$...so I had to make some compromises. . .
That sounds really good. Do you have that quote in writing? On what brand and model number unit is the quote based? Or are you planning to buy the system online and then have someone install your stuff? (The latter is something I'd like to explore myself, as I think I'm getting highballed on the quotes I have received.)I was able to find someone to install the minisplit for $1500 ($750 for the units and the rest for labor)...will have to run a new 15amp circuit from the house board as the unit's 10amp load would totally tax what would have been my "lighting" circuit.
Thanks for the clarifications ridgeback. After more research I am looking at Juno's CMH fixtures...seem to use less power and last longer with similar brightness results. Seems like I would use the line voltage track system with CMH heads....however finding the sale of the CHM heads is tough...will call Juno and get some distributor resources. Could also just get this kit: http://www.farreys.com/lighting/juno/trac_lites.html (R4K2501W-WH)Yes, Juno seems more pricey but seems to have a quality build and has some nice looking models. I have little experience with lighting but was told by my electrician to look for, and I quote, "incandescent track heads with halogen bulbs" I assume this means the transformer is in the light head as opposed to on the track? Those would be line voltage heads so no transformers After viewing the Juno website I left pretty confused as to which one of their many track products was suitable for my needs...I just want a track that I can attach more tracks to if I wanted, a track that connects to the AC line in the center of the track as opposed to the end, and non flashy 50-75 watt halogen heads with built in transformers. You'll want their standard line voltage track, a floating feed not an end feed. Again no transformers so you're saving $ right there. ]
Are there any less expensive Staco alternatives? I have found a few companies I think...Creston and AMX. It is critical that these things are single gang in size as well.My electrician also suggested Lutron's "Diva" dimmers. I brought up AC noise getting into my audio signals and then showed him a forum topic regarding the variable power transformer dimmers and he said to try the Lutrons first before dropping the cash on something like the Staco's. Also, with four tracks, each needing independent dimming control, it would seem that I would need the equivalent of 4 2 gang boxes! That is a lot of boxes. If there was variable transformer that required a single gang box I would be more willing to just buy the things outright. I'm pretty sure you'll get noise off the Divas. Nice dimmers though.
As of now yes.Let me see if I understand this... You have a vent on the exterior wall to allow the water heater to breathe, and you have an access panel from the studio to the water heater controls, and you expect to use this trap door as your fresh air supply for the studio?
It sounds as though I should look for a similar description of garage water installtion codes for San Diego as your Camarillo link earlier... I believe in the description you sent me there were ventillation guidelines for ducted water heaters. I believe my heater has no ducted intake air source...it just pulls air in from a general opening at the pilot light area..If so, that will not pass code. Aside from the overall badness of trying to siphon off air that is intended for the water heater, you need to make up for the fact that you have no operable windows in your studio. ?
Your Fantech's sole purpose is to feed fresh air into the studio and move old air out yes? The actual heating and cooling is done with your split unit?Please do a search for "ventilation" by author "sharward" to see the threads in which I have covered this topic in a lot of detail. Not that I'm "the ventilation expert" around here, but I ran into this showstopper obstacle in my own project. I finally broke through that design barrier and I was able to secure my construction permit a couple of weeks later.
Your link was very informative and definitely made me rethink some things. My reasoning for starting without building permits was as follows: due to time constraints (as currently I have no studio to do my work in), as well as budget contraints (as you point out) I decided that working with a professional studio designer, contractor, HVAC installer, and electrician, avoiding any self installation work, would have to suffice for building to code. In other words I would rely/trust on their expertise and code-abiding installation processes to meet needed safety measures (I obviously do not want the ceiling falling on my head or things catching on fire!). I also reviewed some stuff online and their seem to be severe restrictions regarding garage overhauls...like no penetrating the slab with screws, keeping the garage door functional, not raising the slab to the homes floor level, etc. All of these basically meant to me that I could not do ANYTHING in the garage...so getting permits would not help as I would not be able to get them! We also have an HOA that specifies that NO LIVEABLE DWELLINGS be built in the garages. Now to me this means do not build a room with a bed. However, I did not want to chance going through the city and them requesting information from the HOA and the HOA calling me and saying NO WAY! It has been on my mind however as we will eventually sell the home. That may be years away but the time will eventually arise. In my last house we built an entire wall dividing a huge room into two, without a building permit, and it posed no problem when selling our home (the inspector did not seem to care). With this garage renovation being somewhat larger I am assuming this outcome will not be repeated as easily. As of now I will sell the room as a Home Theater (as I ran extra speaker wire for surrounds). I am sure they will ask if I have a building permit it and will tell them no. What happens after that I do not know. SO, in your opinion, and me being about 85% finished, and me losing some sleep over it, is it worth me approaching the city for a permit or is that totally unrealistic?And lest you think this is all just overkill and crazytalk, please review my "Permits, Codes, Licenses -- and WHY YOU SHOULD CARE!" thread. I realize you're under a tight budget... But if you don't have the money to follow code and follow safety laws, then you should put your project on hold and start saving your money so that you can do it right the first time. The hidden costs of cutting these critical corners could result in your losing all of your investment, or worse.
I was typically getting $2500 quotes for installation. However, I finally came across a company that was willing to try to meet my $1500 budget. The estimate is back in California (as I am in FL right now) so I do not know the split model off hand. It is a Hitachi...That sounds really good. Do you have that quote in writing? On what brand and model number unit is the quote based? Or are you planning to buy the system online and then have someone install your stuff? (The latter is something I'd like to explore myself, as I think I'm getting highballed on the quotes I have received.)
Quick clarification -- Ridgeback's name appears on all the quotes in the previous post, but only the first two are his -- the rest are from me. :)
The point I was trying to make is that while your water heater ventilation plan may be kosher for the water heater itself, it is woefully inadequate for the studio. My water heater is very similar to yours, but it's in the garage that will remain garage when I'm done with my project.It sounds as though I should look for a similar description of garage water installtion codes for San Diego as your Camarillo link earlier... I believe in the description you sent me there were ventillation guidelines for ducted water heaters. I believe my heater has no ducted intake air source...it just pulls air in from a general opening at the pilot light area..
That's correct. (Well, almost -- I'm planning to get a "cooling only" unit. I'll heat with a space heater when needed, and I suspect that will be close to never, given how well insulated the space will be.) That was the "aha!" that my climate control requirements and my ventilation requirements were separate, and as such, they could be addressed with separate systems. Prior to that I was so focused on finding an air conditioning system that could give me fresh air -- once I separated the two, I was home free. :)Your Fantech's sole purpose is to feed fresh air into the studio and move old air out yes? The actual heating and cooling is done with your split unit?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "would have to suffice for building to code." Code is a pass-fail test. You can't be partially to code. You either are or you aren't -- and without building department inspections, you have no way of proving that you are to code. In order to get those inspections, you need a permit. In order to get a permit, you need plans approved by the city. In order to get plans approved by the city, your plans have to be drawn to demonstrate that code will be met. Merely having professionals doing the work does not guarantee that their work will be code compliant. (One could make the argument that having municipal inspections doesn't guarantee it either -- I agree, but then the city is on the hook for that.)My reasoning for starting without building permits was as follows: due to time constraints (as currently I have no studio to do my work in), as well as budget contraints (as you point out) I decided that working with a professional studio designer, contractor, HVAC installer, and electrician, avoiding any self installation work, would have to suffice for building to code.
I think you owe it to yourself to explore the situation with your local building department. You should be able to visit them and get answers to your questions. You might be able to remain nameless and addressless in your research. If you come across as someone who jumped the gun, realizes that you have made a grave mistake, and truly wants to do things above board, you may find a sympathetic ear with advice on how to make your project legal -- although, depending on what you have done so far, you may have to undo or redo some things. I honestly don't know. You may ultimately learn that what you are doing is illegal and can't be made legal. If that's the case, then you're pretty much screwed. :roll: You will then have to live with the consequences, which may be as minor as raised eyebrowse when reselling your home, or as major as punitive fines from either the city or the HOA or both, and possibly an order to demolish everything -- not to mention possible safety issues that could put lives in danger. CC&Rs, and sometimes cities, generally prohibit full-on garage conversions because garages that can store no vehicles can put a burden on steet parking or common parking areas. It's quite understandable, really. I have lived in a place where garages were used almost exclusively for storage and all the cars were parked outside. It was not pleasant. Bottom line, you may be trying to do this project in the wrong house. :roll: Contrary to popular (mis)belief, we can't do anything we want in/to our homes just because we own them. My wife an I literally sought out a house in our area that had enough garage space for me to do our project -- and even then I was lucky, because I had not done the preliminary research to confirm that it was even legal beforehand. :roll: Fortunately for me, it was -- albeit with limitations that made compliance a challenge on numerous issues that I have detailed in my thread. You have my sympathies, sir... The reason I started that thread is because I really wanted to help people avoid the mess you're in right now. I'm sorry you didn't discover it prior to starting construction.SO, in your opinion, and me being about 85% finished, and me losing some sleep over it, is it worth me approaching the city for a permit or is that totally unrealistic?
Yeah, it was like I grew an extra brain overnight! Either that or a few too many ales behind the keyboard :lol:Quick clarification -- Ridgeback's name appears on all the quotes in the previous post, but only the first two are his -- the rest are from me. :)
My bad Sharwood...I am still trying to get a hang of "quoting".
Thank you for all your insight. However, contrary to your feelings of my project I think I am far from having created a "mess" as you put it. I am very happy with the way it has turned out and look forward to finishing it up. I will deal with the consequences of my actions when they come.
Next studio I build I WILL go through the proper permit channels...unfortunately I am far to along and to much $$ invested to go back now. I am afraid that a sympathetic ear at the city office may be hard to find at this point..although I will see what friends I can make :D
Regarding the ventillation, what I have done will fill my immediate needs. If it does not workout, I can also add a duct system later. It is too elaborate for me to do what you have done without testing out my "minimalist" approach first. Besides you seem to have way more patience than me! :P
Regarding your comment on having the "wrong" house for the job, the main reason we bought this house was because of the separate third car garage and office across the hall, providing the perfect solution for my studio needs. The only other alternative was to have a home with a huge backyard to build a physically separate "facility"...not only would the required extra acerage cost a fortune here in San Diego but building an entirely new room would be $$$ as well...I would estimate around 30-40k. If my studio works out maybe we can afford a bigger lot next time. The garage provides a nice shell and allowed for a quick and very easily soundproofed installation...I am sure you would agree being that you are doing the same!
Thanks again for your attention to my questions...you have been very informative. Please don't get me wrong, I can appreciate your attention to proper code being followed...not only for leagal reasons but for safety as well, and will look at your post the next time I build.
No problem 'tall about the quoting, koberlin1. :)
Please promise me that you'll at least equip your space with a carbon monoxide detector and fire extinguishers. Carbon monoxide is odorless and can kill you. Your dependance on a wall panel that opens directly into your water heater controls and burner access for fresh air concerns me greatly.
Being mindful of real estate values down there (I have friends there, being from the area myself), I do understand and sympathize with your less-than-ideal situation.
As an aside, my sister-in-law suffered a rather unfortunate incident this week. She was at her boyfriend's house -- a construction worker who (among other things) hangs cabinets in new homes, mind you -- and was asleep in his bed at 3:45 AM when, all of a sudden and without warning, the shelving system mounted to the wall over the bed crashed down upon them. (Yeah. Don't get me started.) A stereo speaker hit her head and opened a wound so big that she had to be rushed to the emergency room, where after nearly six hours she got 4 interior stitches, 5 exterior stitches, 3 staples, and a chipped tooth. She's also lucky to be alive, able to walk and talk and see.
I'm telling this story for two reasons -- one, we need to be really really really really really careful when building/attaching stuff that our heads will be under (that includes ceilings), and two, even contractors make stupid mistakes.
I realize you hold your contractors in high esteem, but the fact that they're doing all this work for you sans building permits -- in California no less, a "sue me if you look at me funny" state -- leads me to seriously question their integrity and professionalism. Is any of them charging you more than $500 in labor and materials? If so, they'd better be licensed with the State Contractor's License Board or they should be arrested, just like this guy or this guy as a result of an unlicensed contractor sting operation that took place up here earlier this month.
As my final word on the subject, realizing full well that it's probably futile, I urge you to reconsider your plan. It is out of a sincere concern for the safety, wellbeing, and overall lack of deadness of you, your family, and your guests/customers that I even brought these things up.
No matter which way you go, I sincerely wish you the best.
--Keith
OK..let's try this quoting thing again..
Yes, that is a very good idea. I will take those precautionary measures.Please promise me that you'll at least equip your space with a carbon monoxide detector and fire extinguishers. Carbon monoxide is odorless and can kill you. Your dependance on a wall panel that opens directly into your water heater controls and burner access for fresh air concerns me greatly.
Yes, to tell you the truth, even with all the money in the world I would pobably never be totally satisfied with a house...just the way I am!Being mindful of real estate values down there (I have friends there, being from the area myself), I do understand and sympathize with your less-than-ideal situation.
Wow...I am so happy to hear that she is walking away from that horrible incident..what a nightmare.As an aside, my sister-in-law suffered a rather unfortunate incident this week. She was at her boyfriend's house -- a construction worker who (among other things) hangs cabinets in new homes, mind you -- and was asleep in his bed at 3:45 AM when, all of a sudden and without warning, the shelving system mounted to the wall over the bed crashed down upon them. (Yeah. Don't get me started.) A stereo speaker hit her head and opened a wound so big that she had to be rushed to the emergency room, where after nearly six hours she got 4 interior stitches, 5 exterior stitches, 3 staples, and a chipped tooth. She's also lucky to be alive, able to walk and talk and see.
Yes, I have actually reviewed what my current contractor has done so far and am far from satisfied...quite a bit of shotty work..not using long enough screws to make sure all the drywall layers are fastened to the studs..doors not closing..etc. I actually told him I was not needing his services anymore this morning and have found someone else to fill his shoes.I'm telling this story for two reasons -- one, we need to be really really really really really careful when building/attaching stuff that our heads will be under (that includes ceilings), and two, even contractors make stupid mistakes.
Good "sue-happy" point...I am assuming that about 90% of these "contractors" actually do sub work most of the time and with side jobs like this just take them on without the proper licensing...I realize you hold your contractors in high esteem, but the fact that they're doing all this work for you sans building permits -- in California no less, a "sue me if you look at me funny" state -- leads me to seriously question their integrity and professionalism. Is any of them charging you more than $500 in labor and materials? If so, they'd better be licensed with the State Contractor's License Board or they should be arrested, just like this guy or this guy as a result of an unlicensed contractor sting operation that took place up here earlier this month.
Thank you for the concern, I am looking into the best way to possibly approach the city with my concerns without losing all that I have done.As my final word on the subject, realizing full well that it's probably futile, I urge you to reconsider your plan. It is out of a sincere concern for the safety, wellbeing, and overall lack of deadness of you, your family, and your guests/customers that I even brought these things up.
Thank you!No matter which way you go, I sincerely wish you the best.
Keith,
Well, per your noted concern, I am starting to worry about getting proper ventillation in/out of the studio (I pictured myslef editing then waking up 8 hours later not knowing what had happened). I looked through your wonderfully massive thread but could not find your "silencer" recipe. They look beefy!
Is the main purpose of them to keep unwanted sound from travelling out of your studio via the ducting and to the outside world as well as unwanted sound coming INTO the studio from outside the studio environment? Looks like you doubled up on each as well..
All sound isolation works in both directions, even though it would seem that air flow would make one direction less effective; keep in mind though, that sound travels (at sea level) approximately 1130 feet per second, so if ventilating air were traveling at anywhere near that speed you couldn't hear anything over the air noise.
Meaning, that whether sounds are traveling "into the wind" in a vent system, or "with the wind", only makes a difference of maybe 5% of the speed of sound. The most this could cause in one direction vs. the other, would be a slight pitch change due to the doppler effect... Steve
My recipe per se isn't drawn yet. I'm basically going to build them in place. The surfaces of the silencers that are visible from the room (or garage, or laundry room) will be essentially equivalent thickness of the walls and ceiling they're attached to, with a couple of zig zags and lined with insulation. :)
Makes sense!Meaning, that whether sounds are traveling "into the wind" in a vent system, or "with the wind", only makes a difference of maybe 5% of the speed of sound. The most this could cause in one direction vs. the other, would be a slight pitch change due to the doppler effect...
Got it. It sounds as though the silencers will blend in aestheically with the room very well. Let me pick at your brain a little more here (although I am gessing my "consultation" tab is getting rather large)...I was talking with my (new) contractor and we were thinking of maybe going up through the studio roof into a bathroom and pulling/exhausting the air into there to/from the studio. This would keep sound leakage to the "outside world" to a minimal (and would only annoy whatever guest is using that bathroom at the time) :wink: How about running them up from the studio ceiling into bathroom, at the cabinet, using metal vents on both ends, with filters...maybe I should draw this... (3 hours later) OK! That took WAY too long but I think I am onto something...My recipe per se isn't drawn yet. I'm basically going to build them in place. The surfaces of the silencers that are visible from the room (or garage, or laundry room) will be essentially equivalent thickness of the walls and ceiling they're attached to, with a couple of zig zags and lined with insulation.
The problems that pop out at me are:
- Having the exhaust air being blown into the same room where the fresh air comes from.
- Having the vents only 5 feet apart
- Having the minisplit so close to the vents. Maybe the exhaust vent would suck up all that nice warm/cold air before it could get to me at the other end of the studio.
- I would need a switch IN the studio...ideally near other switch plates next to entrance... to turn the fans on/off.
- Actually implementing this...
The limitations I have are:
- the storage room has a vent (behind the H20 heater) going from the inside of the storage room out to the outside world for a fresh air supply in their. Would the new holes for the vents poked into the studio walls allow for sound to somehow travel out to the vent to the outiside? Hopefully my silencers would helpout..It would be hard to stomach cutting two new big holes in this tight "shell" I have built...but seems necessary.
- I cannot put the vents anywhere else in the studio but on that back wall. There is basically 3" of space B/T the studio cieling and garage cieling.
A few more questions:
- what size/type of ducting would you recommend.
- I am thinking of building the "silencers" that will be in the storage area out of 1/2" particle board with fiberglass insulating the insides...how big should these boxes be to be effective you think?
- What type of fan units? I have a nice large/quiet/heavy duty computer type fan that blows air out of my computers isolation box...maybe that would be suffice in a slightly larger form...