WiseMinds Recording Studios Thread

Hi Wiseminds, Just a couple of questions on your wall / window construction if I could. (1) Are they double stud walls or one thick single? (2) How many layers of drywall / timber cladding each side? (3) Is the window one frame or two and what thickness glass each pane? (4) What's the isolation like with drums into your control room? Reason I ask is my room will look similar to yours and I am wondering what the isolation from drums will be like. JohnG

I agree with most of the opinions stated...You have a beautiful studio! The woodwork really looks great. Congrats are definately in order! :) Just curious...are those 2 monitors between the speakers?

Johnrg wrote:

Hi Wiseminds, Just a couple of questions on your wall / window construction if I could. (1) Are they double stud walls or one thick single? (2) How many layers of drywall / timber cladding each side?

Single stud walls. 3 layers of 5/8" gypsum each side hung on RC, final layer glued not nailed, R13 in between.

Johnrg wrote:

(3) Is the window one frame or two and what thickness glass each pane?

Dual frame, dual pane. Both panes tilted about 4 degrees, narrower at the bottom wider at the top. Muslin covered rigid fiberglass inserts in top and in bottom with freshly baked silica gel packs fit into pockets under the muslin.

Johnrg wrote:

(4) What's the isolation like with drums into your control room?

Well, the live room is not done yet. But with the door up, hollow core covered both sides in 3/4" MDF, its pretty quiet. I am sure there will be some bleed through. When it is finished I will be posting some hardcore test results and better breakdown of my construction.

camistan wrote:

I agree with most of the opinions stated...You have a beautiful studio! The woodwork really looks great. Congrats are definately in order! Just curious...are those 2 monitors between the speakers?

Stan, thank you for the kind words. Yes those are twin Spectre 17" lcd screens mounted on tilt brackets. My DAW and workstation will be on those and I have a 21" that will be on one of the desk "wings" and a widescreen laptop that will also be utilized. Thanks to both of you for the kind words and questions.

OK Andy, you're hired; you can do my next studio too :D So stay in practice, awright??!? Seriously, excellent work, I'm green with envy... Steve :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: See? Told ya...

Finished the "laminating" of my control room/live room door tonight. I went with a hollow core birch door and attached 1 3/4" mdf to each side. No latch for this, I am using and auto closer. Cant say as I am happy with the MDF, next time I think I will spring the $100 for 13ply birch. The MDF is a little to fragile for my tastes. Oh well, its on there now, and boy is this sucker heavy. While the door was drying up I manufactured and installed a solid oak jamb and custom threshold. Next is to cut the hinge plate recesses, get the door mounted so I can work on the seal. I will post some pix soon.

I hope you took (and will post) a lot of pictures. I'm getting close to this stage myself and wanted to use at least a few "Knightfly doors." What was it about the MDF that you found "fragile?" I know you can't screw into the side of it (to hold hinges) but other than that, I thought it was pretty solid. Did you add to a pre-hung door frame with your oak one or did you build the whole assembly from scratch. len

len-morgan wrote:

I hope you took (and will post) a lot of pictures. I'm getting close to this stage myself and wanted to use at least a few "Knightfly doors." What was it about the MDF that you found "fragile?" I know you can't screw into the side of it (to hold hinges) but other than that, I thought it was pretty solid. Did you add to a pre-hung door frame with your oak one or did you build the whole assembly from scratch. len

Yeah I will get the pix up soon. The MDF is fragile on the edges. You have to be very careful with the leading edges. They chip pretty easily. I like the mass, don't get me wrong, just would like it to be more durable. Hopefully primer and paint will help a bit. As for the frame, jamb, and threshold...all oak, all handmade from scratch. Oak is $6.95 a linear ft here so it was quite nerve-racking for me albeit a treat to work with a finer wood. Hanging the door tonight so I should have pix of the entire thing tonight.

ARRRRGH!! :x Okay, I'm okay... I HATE DOORS!! Not as much as I hate drywall...but it's a close 2nd. The door is up. The seal is on. The door closer...is WAY too whimpy to close the door though. I bought a closer that was for 140lb door... not nearly enough. Needless to say, I was too busy smashing my hand with the hammer, or driving a screwdriver through my cuticles to take any pix. When and IF I get it completely installed I will post detailed files. :? That is unless I end up TERMINATED first.. More to come.....

Okay.. I can safely say, the best advice about building studios I can give you is this... If you get frustrated...take a night off...relax...come back and take a second look at the problem. You will have a whole new perspective and chances are you will see the solution is obvious. Of course we would all like to plan our moves so that we don't have problems but they can and will happen. For instance, I was having all sorts of troubles with the door installation. Nothing would seal, the closer sucked, and so on. I came back to it tonight...put the closer on the CORRECT WAY, adjusted the hinges, did a light leak test, which exposed leaks around the seal. Took care of the leaks by adjusting the seal and voila!! I have a perfectly sealed control room door. Here are some pix. Questions and comments are of course welcomed.

Cont.....

Andy, As always, beautiful work! I do have a few questions for you: 1) Did you use a hollow core door with MDF on each side? 2) If so, was the door pre-hung? If not, (and I know this is asking a lot), could you document either in words, pictures, or both) how you went about making the jamb/door assembly fit so well? I ask because that doesn't look like any standard jamb I've ever seen. 3) It's hard to tell from photos you had but are there only two hinges on the door? 4) Enlighten us as to exactly what you did wrong with the closer that you then fixed. It seems a little close to the hinge to me but I haven't spent a lot of time looking at closers (but I will now). :-) 5) What size are the hinges? 3 1/2"? 4" 6) Does your door handle/push plate screw all the way through from one side to the other or are there separate screws on each side? If it's separate screws on each side, do they go all the way through the MDF into the frame of the door? If not, do you think the MDF will stand up to the constant pulling over time? 7) Maybe it's too early in the morning but I don't see anything that looks like a seal. I did notice that in one picture (the one with the little foot that holds the door open) that it appears the center door is inset from the two MDF panels. Is that where the seal goes? Did you find some wood grain neoprene? :-) I guess that's enough questions for now. I ask because I'm getting close to this stage and I've got 9 doors to do. len

len-morgan wrote:

Andy, As always, beautiful work! I do have a few questions for you: 1) Did you use a hollow core door with MDF on each side?

Yes, Birch hollow core with 3/4" mdf each side. This door will be painted with textured paint and then painted again to match the room, btw.

len-morgan wrote:

2) If so, was the door pre-hung? If not, (and I know this is asking a lot), could you document either in words, pictures, or both) how you went about making the jamb/door assembly fit so well? I ask because that doesn't look like any standard jamb I've ever seen.

Well I broke some rules here. ie; single door and not double. My wall is only 12" thick. I went this direction because of space. Ideally and after this 5 year project is over and if successful I will be building from the ground up. Or designing I should say...someone else will be breaking their backs for me. The most important part of building this jamb was careful pre-planning at thewood selection stage, the wall framing stage, measuring twice, sometimes three times during the door frame/jamb cutting stage, and lastly using a high quality finishing blade on my saw. I urge all of you to take some time to practice with your circular saw or table saw. A little practice and attention to detail goes a loooong way to making a nice product. Remember, less filler, LOOKS GREAT. ;) I will go more into detail on the frame in the next day or so to try and help you where I can.

len-morgan wrote:

3) It's hard to tell from photos you had but are there only two hinges on the door?

3 hinges. 3.5" exterior, 3 screw. I replaced the screws that go into the jamb with nice 2" square drive screws. Plenty of holding power and beauty to boot.

len-morgan wrote:

4) Enlighten us as to exactly what you did wrong with the closer that you then fixed. It seems a little close to the hinge to me but I haven't spent a lot of time looking at closers (but I will now). :-)

Stupid mistake here. Had the closer arm in the wrong direction, parallel to the door instead of perpendicular. After looking at the commercial installations here at my music store I copied their positions and set-up..poof, it works. :roll:

len-morgan wrote:

5) What size are the hinges? 3 1/2"? 4"

3.5

len-morgan wrote:

6) Does your door handle/push plate screw all the way through from one side to the other or are there separate screws on each side? If it's separate screws on each side, do they go all the way through the MDF into the frame of the door? If not, do you think the MDF will stand up to the constant pulling over time?

The screws go through the MDF to the door not through to the other side though. The MDF seems to hold quite well with coarse thread screws when you let them tap themselves instead of pre-drilling. There are 6 screws in each. The door sucks air quite a bit which slows it's opening. Upon close observation of the handle, there is no flex in the plate or the handle. When the door is painted I may mask off that area and liquid nails that plate when I re-attach it.

len-morgan wrote:

7) Maybe it's too early in the morning but I don't see anything that looks like a seal. I did notice that in one picture (the one with the little foot that holds the door open) that it appears the center door is inset from the two MDF panels. Is that where the seal goes? Did you find some wood grain neoprene? :-)

There is a seal there. It's on the jamb itself. I used instructions from another thread on here to help with that. The door was positioned, the seal was applied to the door stop, then the stop was put in position for a tight seal and marked. Opened the door, repositioned the stop, drilled, glued, screwed it into place. Did the otherside and the top the same way. The bottom uses a rubber sweep for now. I am waffling on another stop piece on the bottom (tripping hazard). Thats all I got for now. ;-)

Thanks for the info. That was what I was looking for. I do have one additional question though - What was the thickness of the original door? I think they have two different thicknesses, one interior one exterior. Also, I think the reason I didn't see your seals is because all of the pictures with the door open show from the "wrong" side where the jam is covering the seal. Thanks again!! len

Len, standard doors come in either interior or exterior - while there may be solid core interior ones available (not sure) most codes require exterior doors to be solid core for security - hardware for interior doors is designed for 1-3/8" total thickness, while hardware for EXterior doors is set up for 1-3/4" total thickness. The hinges are correspondingly larger so the hinge pins end up about the same distance away from the edge of the door. It's probably a good thing Andy isn't planning double doors, since using the hollow ones with MDF makes it already a 2-leaf barrier... Steve

knightfly wrote:

Len, standard doors come in either interior or exterior - while there may be solid core interior ones available (not sure) most codes require exterior doors to be solid core for security - hardware for interior doors is designed for 1-3/8" total thickness, while hardware for EXterior doors is set up for 1-3/4" total thickness. The hinges are correspondingly larger so the hinge pins end up about the same distance away from the edge of the door. It's probably a good thing Andy isn't planning double doors, since using the hollow ones with MDF makes it already a 2-leaf barrier... Steve

Actually Steve, I think it was by your suggestion in another thread that I nixed my solid core and went this way. Glad I did, I am very happy with it's performance. Thanks!!

Steve, It was because I have several SINGLE doors that I was interested in this method. If you look at my layout, my control room, drum room, and main room entrance and exit doors all open out into big hallways and someone here (or maybe studiotips) told me that after a couple of feet of air space (like the hallway) double vs single doors wouldn't matter that much (and I assume the quad leaf problem is the same way). The entrance to my vocal booth from the main room IS a double door and both of those WILL be solid core doors. Speaking of that, any chance to have a look at my rooms to see where I might start with treatments? Sorry to take a temporary detour on your thread Andy. :-) You are hereby granted one free trip off topic on any one of my threads. len

Andy, I'm glad it's working for you; although it's probably your incredible attention to detail that's mostly responsible 8) Len, I'm currently so far behind I almost think I'm ahead :cry: At least I can open your files now, hopefully I'll get at them in the next couple of days - keep bugging me, just in case... STeve

Just a quick update...oh and Len, never worry about being off topic in my threads bro...if you could see in my head...there is no such thing as off topic. :mrgreen: I am going to be on the road through the weekend with Eric Brittingham and Jeff Labar (of Cinderella fame) and their new band Naked Beggars Http://www.NakedBeggars.net We played with them last year in NYC and they called us this year to do some shows. YAY. A much needed break before the 2 week rush to the finish line. See you turkeys on the other side!!!! :wink:

The rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated. :lol: I made it through the big 3 gig weekend just fine. I have put myself on a deadline to open the studio in about 8 days. I am just about 3 days from completion. Soooo I have not had time to do any updates. Heck, I have been so busy that I have had to schedule my trips to the bathroom. :? Anyway, I thought I would throw ya a bone and also tell ya there will be pix and updates SOON. Like REAL SOON. Talk to ya soon guys.

Are those speakers self powered ?? and if they are... How will the amps be cooled ?

Andy, Just a quick question - I got my first door delivered yesterday (to avoid the urge to screw all of them up the same way at the same time), and I noticed that the door panel itself is and inch or two shorter than the side jams. Is this space "replaced" with the threshold? Did you make your MDF panels the same size as the door itself? I'm going to document my hollow-core to "studio door" progress in another thread. I think I've figured out what to do with the hole for the lockset if you can't get unbored doors. len

fisher of men wrote:

Are those speakers self powered ?? and if they are... How will the amps be cooled ?

They are EVENT TR6N Self powered monitors. And surprizingly they generate little to no heat under load. I was skeptical at first but am a believer now. No problems what-so-ever.

len-morgan wrote:

Andy, Just a quick question - I got my first door delivered yesterday (to avoid the urge to screw all of them up the same way at the same time), and I noticed that the door panel itself is and inch or two shorter than the side jams. Is this space "replaced" with the threshold? Did you make your MDF panels the same size as the door itself? I'm going to document my hollow-core to "studio door" progress in another thread. I think I've figured out what to do with the hole for the lockset if you can't get unbored doors. len

The MDF was overcut by about an 1/8" all the way around then sanded/planed to match the door. As for the 1-1/2" difference in the Jamb/Door height I do believe that is the reason. Keep in mind, I ended up building my own outer frame then a jamb and threshold instead of going with the pre-made. So, I might not be the best person to ask about that. I intend to continue this thread after the studio is done with detailed Sketch-up files on various aspects of my construction and my thoughts behind why I did things the way I did.

wiseminds-recording studio wrote:

I intend to continue this thread after the studio is done with detailed Sketch-up files on various aspects of my construction and my thoughts behind why I did things the way I did.

If you haven't answered it earlier in your thread (I am too sore from 11 straight hours of painting yesterday to look), I'd like to know what drove the decision to have what appears to be nothing but hard (i.e., reflective) surfaces on the front of your control room. I seem to remember that "conventional wisdom" suggests that everything from the front to just behind the mix position be absorbtive? len

Well Len there is absorbing going on there...It's all behind the wall. I know it doesn't look like it to look at it but I took a lot of my design cues from this studio: http://www.johnlsayers.com/Studio/Mainp ... ctions.htm I obviously went in my own direction but the design basics were from Luis' studio. The plus side to my set up was that the ceiling height and room length was much greater than his. My entire back wall is an absorber, as well as 2 bass traps and the entire ceiling. My design was conceived after much reading of this forum and various other publications on the net. As I always do and have done since I was a weee lad, I took all of the info that I had obtained and then applied it to my situation with considerations taken for money, time, ability, etc. Also, this studio was designed as a 3-5 year test bed. If proven to be a successful business, a studio from the ground up will be built. At that point, my ideal studio will be built. As for my current situation, I am coming out of a basement studio that was less than adequate to do much of anything in. Even so, I was quite successful in establishing myself as the go to recording studio in my area. Hopefully the trend will continue and a high-end facility will be in the future. What I hope to do here is test some of my own theories as well as those tested and true. Hopefully an amalgamation of both will be a winning combination for me. As for how it is going so far? I couldn't be happier. In the next 2 weeks I will be prepping to re-open my studio to the public. As I complete my testing I will be sure to post the results. On last tid-bit of useless info, I have always had an un-natural ability to repair, fix, modify, improve just about anything ever laid in front of me. For me it just seems to be second nature and I have no idea why. My studio is and probably always will be in the mad scientist category. Read with caution... I will try to explain to the best of my ability. :mrgreen: