Control room ideas in pole barn

Hello down there! This is an amazing, and a bit overwhelming site! I have read quite a bit and learned alot so far. This is my first "forum" so be gentle! :oops: OK, here goes. I live in rural Ohio. My closest neighbor is 1/2 mile away. The pole barn in question here is on 29 acres that I own. It's outside dimensions are 30' x 48', (29' x 47' inside). It is constructed of 6" x 6" treated lumber posts with 2" x 6" horizontal "stringers" about 4' apart all the way around> foil backed foam (celetex) insolation > metal siding. The inside is partitioned off where we currently rehearse. I built 2 x 4 walls flush with the inside of the 6 x 6 posts > paper backed 4" fiberglass toped with 1/2" OSB (chip board). The angeled partition wall is just 2 x 4 studs w/ fiberglass and then OSB on both sides. Then a sliding 11' x 10' door made of 2 x 4s with 2" solid blue foam insulation on the inside and OSB on the outside. I also used the blue foam between the roof rafters as a ceiling with 1 x 3 firing strips to hold them up and then 6" fiberglass insulation on top of that. The rest of the building is unfinished on the inside and I do use some space for storage of a tractor, and all that "junk" that we all seem to accumulate over time! Its also nice to be able to drive your equipment truck into your rehearsal space for loading on rainy / snowy days,so I would like to keep that option. Anyway, I want to build a control room at the other end of the building. I am unsure of shape and size, but somewhere in the 15' x 18' range. I know there are some oppinions/ science that are involved in choosing a size and since I am starting with a blank space I would like some help with that. I'll also want line of site (window) into the rehearsal /studio space. I was thinking of a window in the large sliding door. I probably should get rid of the sliding door but it's not a priority right now. Should I float the floor? I am also considering new monitors. At this point I'm thinking pretty strong about the Dynaudio BM6a's. Probably on stands as soffit mounting active speakers seems to be a problem.? Will this also affect size / shape of room? The height from th 4" concrete floor to the bottom of the rafters is 11'-3" so I could have a 10' ceiling. I could justify spending $3,000 - $5,000. However if I could do it in such a way that I could add to it later, I could spend more later. I may want to do the rest of the studio at some point but for now I just need a control room that is isolated from the other rooms in the building, and as accurate as possible to mix in. So, there you are, I would appriciate any suggestions you may have. Thanks in advance, Tim Milligan

Oops! Sorry about that! I accidently sent my post twice because I got an error message that my attachments didn't go through. I sent a drawing but must have done something wrong. I'm not at that computer right now, so I'll have to try it again tomorow or monday. Tim

STONE CUTTER wrote:

Oops! Sorry about that! I accidently sent my post twice because I got an error message that my attachments didn't go through. I sent a drawing but must have done something wrong. I'm not at that computer right now, so I'll have to try it again tomorow or monday.

At the top right of your other post, you'll see 3 buttons labeled "quote", "edit", and "X". The X button will delete the post. However, you lose this option once someone replies to your post, so if you'd like to clean up your double posting, do it sooner rather than later. Leigh

29 acres and 1/2 mile to nearest neighbor? Wow, must be nice! 8) I'm a mere 10 feet from my nearest neighbor on 1/8-acre -- that's about what a half-million buys you these days around here! :lol: :shock: Welcome to the forum. Can't wait to see the images! --Keith :mrgreen:

OK, I'm going to try to send pics again. Hope this works! Tim

sharward wrote:

29 acres and 1/2 mile to nearest neighbor? Wow, must be nice! 8) I'm a mere 10 feet from my nearest neighbor on 1/8-acre -- that's about what a half-million buys you these days around here! :lol: :shock: Welcome to the foree the images!um. Can't wait to s --Keith :mrgreen:

Keith, I think land around here goes for $500 - $1000 per acre for rural areas. More in prime building areas. I live 6 miles out from the big town of Coshocton. Population around 13,000. Yes, solitude is nice for making music / loud noises, however, this morning ( and for the past several days) it was 9 degrees. Climbing up to a balmy 22 this afternoon! I guess wherever you go, there you are. :lol:

StoneCutter, we have the same set-up. Ours is on 90 acres and the building is a 24x40. We split the building in half with a woodshop on one side and the recording/rehearsal on the other. We ended up with a 16x16x9 tracking room and a 16x7x7.5 control room. The entire 24x16 facility sits on 2" certifoam on the slab, two layers of 1/2" osb railroaded. The control room is elevated 24" and is supported off the control side wall of the control room and posted on neoprene pucks for isolation. The partition wall is doubled and decoupled with many layers of rock and osb. I like the elevated control room as it provides a better view of the tracking room as well as helping with iso. Due to our location we weren't as concerned with noise getting outside so much as noise getting inside. Right now we're struggling with door and window design. We think we have some good ideas and some great info from this site but nothing has materialized as of yet. Good luck and keep us posted. PS: R76 in the ceiling almost keeps the noise from the rain on that steel roof out :wink: . Little more work on that situation as well.

STONE CUTTER wrote:

I think land around here goes for $500 - $1000 per acre for rural areas.

Wow, that's cheap! Out here these days, a half-acre lot in a desirable area goes for over a quarter million! :roll:

. . . this morning ( and for the past several days) it was 9 degrees. Climbing up to a balmy 22 this afternoon!

Yeah, that's where we've got you beat -- your high is lower than our low! ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

Just read some more posts. Apparently metal buildings such as mine are not so good for studio use. am I completely sunk? :( My main concern is isolation from the rooms inside the building. I hope that can still be accomplished. Any thoughts?

If you build each room independently with beefy walls and a decent air gap, you should be OK for room-to-room isolation. Where you will run into a problem is room-to-outside isolation, because your outer leaf will be very weak.

keith's right - I'd build individual rooms within the shell - I wouldn't bother to float a floor - it'd be a waste where you are. I'd look at moving the roller door (?) so the truck and tractor are kept to one end of the building and the studio is seperate. cheers john

:D Thanks guys for your reply, Due to cost and hassel, I don't think I can move the sliding door right now. For now I think I will stick with the CR being in the back corner. Now, do you think my CR design needs any "tuning up? Front to back, I'm pretty much maxed out unless it would be OK to angle the top left corner of outside wall. Side to side I could play with maybe a couple of feet. The truck is hardly ever in the building exept for loading equiptment ect. and the tractor also spends alot of time outside as well. I just want the option of one or the other and some storage space. Lets see if I'm getting this. 1. Frame in outside walls of building with studs on 24" centers and fill with OC 703 (4"?) 2. Finish ceiling of building, (bottom of rafters) with studs on 24" centers and drywall. Two layers? OC 703 on top? 3.Frame inside walls 6" from outside walls and fill with OC 703. Bead of accustical caulk all the way around between floor and frame? 4. Frame in ceiling of inside room 6" down from building ceiling, fill with 703 5.Drywall 2 layers on inside of room. 1st one screwed second one glued. all corner and ceiling joints seperated with accustical caulk. 6. Finish exterior of outside wall with 3 layers of drywall. 1st one screwed second and third glued. I know there is more to it than this, but I want to understand these basic steps first. I'm still not sure what to do about a floor. I understand that I don't need to float it but I may just want some elavation off of the cement floor. This would also help with visibility to the other room. Thanks again, Tim

Tim- the areas I've drawn on your plan are areas you can use for acoustic traps - i.e. to give depth to the angled side walls so they can have slots with depth - similarly with the ceiling. cheers john

John, Yeah, that makes sense. I was wondering why my drawing didn't look right. I left out the inside leaf wall! :oops: I keep forgeting that the splayed walls are just false walls. I guess the angled ceiling is also false right? Slats on the ceiling?, (hey, that sounds like a song idea! :lol: ), or a cloud? Do you mean hanging bass traps behind slot walls or air space lined with 703? In fact, the yellow areas on my new drawing are areas I'm unsure which treatment to use. From what I understand, hanging bass traps are in the back wall, above false ceiling, and in the front corners behind the flush mounted speakers. (yes, I've decided to flush mount the speakers. In for a penny, in for a pound! :lol: ) BTW, I have a whole room in my house "smathered" with Aurelex 2" and 3" and some Leonards. Also a stack of some "other" 1" foam that some guy gave me. I promised my wife that I'd get rid of it when I build this CR so if I can use any of it great and if not I'll just throw it away :lol: This drawing is of course based on your control room design from the SAE site. Are the angles of the bass traps in the back corner critical or can they be any angle that works?- or - should I go straight accross the back with a cloth covered frame with insulation and hangers behind? I also moved the doors thinking it would be simpler to build and would make the slot walls mirror images of each other. What do you think? The slat walls measure 7'-5" so 4'x8' sheets of plywood will work great to cut the slats from :D As always, thanks for your help :) Tim

Would it be a waist of money to fill the areas between the 2"x6" stringers on the outside walls with multiple layers of drywall glued to the foil insulation and then another layer over the whole wall covering the 2"x6" and the filled cavity? :? Just a thought.

I'm assuming by "stringers" you mean "studs" -- the vertical pieces of wood. ("Stringers," or "noggins" as they say in the UK, are the small horizontal pieces that are sometimes fit between the studs to bridge them together.) Properly beefing up your outer walls (and ceiling) will help you achieve better isolation between inside and outside. If you need that, then you should do it. If not, then it may be a waste of money. If your primary concern is room-to-room isolation, then you should invest your material money on the interior walls. --Keith :mrgreen:

[quote="sharward"]I'm assuming by "stringers" you mean "studs" -- the vertical pieces of wood. ("Stringers," or "noggins" as they say in the UK, are the small horizontal pieces that are sometimes fit between the studs to bridge them together.) I'm not sure if the term "stringer" is correct or just some "Appalachian slang" :lol: but it's the horizonal 2x6s that I'm talking about. I probably don't need the extra isolation but after the interior walls are up it will be too late. I guess I was thinking of gluing 3 sheets of 1/2" drywall to the foil insolation to build out to the thikness of the 2x6s and then another layer covering the new "flush" wall surface. What do ya think?

I stand corrected -- those aren't studs after all. Let's call 'em "stringers" for lack of a better term! ;-) Don't plan on the holding the drywall strips with only glue. You'd probably need to also run some 1x2s or 2x3s vertically over the whole thing, attached to the "stringers," in order to keep them from falling down. And don't glue the drywall on their faces because then you'll end up with a solid piece that will probably resonate at a worse frequency than three individual sheets will separately. You'll want to carefully read my thread, starting at the point where I began my outer leaf beef-up, which starts on page 24 and runs through page 32. You probably don't want to do exactly what I did, but there's still tons of great information about beef-up in those pages. --Keith :mrgreen:

OK, I'm holding up the white flag. :) I surrender. I've been pouring over this entire site for weeks now and as soon as I think I'm understanding it, something else pops up and I'm lost again :cry: Can someone,(John?) :wink: please tell me if I'm on the right track? I'm sectioning off a corner of my building by building two outside walls that connect to the structural walls of the barn. I'll then build a room inside of those walls with walls parallel to and six inches from the outer walls All studed frames will then be stuffed with 6" fiberglass bat insulation. The outside of the outer wall will have 2 layers of drywall and the inside of the inner wall also will have 2 layers of drywall. The 12 degree splayed walls are created by the slat resonators and they use the inner leaf drywall layer for their back and are sealed airtight to it. The speaker soffets are at 30 degree angles and the space behind the speakers can have hanging bass traps. There is a 12" opening at the bottom and a port at the top for air flow. Since this is a small room and there is not much distance between the rear wall and the mix position, the rear wall should be absorbent and have bass traps. The insides of all cavities like bass traps, slot resonators, and speaker soffits should be lined with semi rigid fiberglass like OC 703. Please, let me know if I'm "getting" this so I can start sleeping at night and getting work done at my job again. :lol: Thanks, Tim

Hey guys, :) I just re-sized some of my pics that I didn't realize were too big. I hope this hasn't caused anyone too much grief :oops: Anyway, I guess this is a "bump", But I really would like to hear what you think of my most recent drawing and description of what I "think" I understand so far. :) Even if you just say "yup, looks good" or "Tim, your an idiot" :shock: :lol: at least I'd know where I stand. :lol: BTW thanks for fixing my username CAPs, Tim

I would think you'd want to rotate everything 90 degrees so that your room isn't wider than it is deep.... That's the advice I've seen others give.

as i said in your garage studio post many months ago keith another name for what the people in the uk and down under call stringers is also called a cat in the american construction language and stringers in the american construction language are consider the 2 pieces of lumber that make up the outside pieces that hold the steps to make a set of stairs. just my 2 cents

Yes, you did, and I forgot -- glad you're back to keep me from confusing people! 8)

Keith, I thought about rotating everythig at first, but decided since the window needs to be on the wall that its shown on, it would mess up the left-right symmetry. Since then however, I've seen where people have put windows in the angled slat wall so maybe... hmmm... It looks hard to build but what do I know. :lol: I wasn't going to use sliding glass doors because of the expence, but I suppose thats an option. OK, heres another drawing. I didn't take the time to make it "perfect", but the idea is there. :wink:

Glad to be back more than you know Keith. Once the big move is over I'll have the time to catch up on all the reading I have missed. Need to especially catch up on your project to I can be fully prepaired for the questions that will be coming my way.