Re-design Question for John

Hi all, I have been soaking up all the advice I can on this board and from the sometimes biased info on http://www.auralex.com/ and am finally ready to begin my project. I have created a website with some pre-construction pictures of the basement that I plan to use, along with a proposed layout. (Thought the outside hosting might help the load on the server here). My goal is to create a performance room, and control room (preferably with a lounge area for guests.) I'm hoping to be isolated from the rest of the house as much as possible, in case I take in a new room-mate soon, and also to prevent me freaking out the dog. I am hoping to spend no more than $10k on the whole project, but am really in a hurry to get it done, so would be prepared to sell my car (yes - sell my beloved Firebird) to raise more $$ if needed; if I could get in some contractors and get it done quicker. I'll get more into that when I come to the questions. So let me share my proposed layout with you, and then I will begin hitting you with the questions. Here is the link to the whole site that has the pictures and all: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzephbek/ So to walk you through my proposed layout. The area to the right of, and behind the stairs is all out of commission. It is the water heater, A/C, and also my Washer and Dryer. So, main focus is on the areas to the left of the stairs, and at the back (top of the gif). The black lines show the existing layout, and the blue shows that which I'm anticipating. Grey shows furniture or other. As you can see from the photo's on the site, the basement is currently finished as many 70's style basements are; in the putrid "wood effect" paneling. Their is a large window and sliding glass patio door at one end that opens out to the patio and back yard, and this backs up to a wooded area. The front wall (at the bottom of the gif), and the left wall are underground and I think are solid concrete blocks (although I'm not sure how I can check). So this seems to help sound from getting out. I have very good distance from all my neighbors, and am currently able to play the drums in the wee-hours with no complaints (well yet anyway). It's barely noticeable from outside when I'm playing, even now with no treatment done. However, from a recording point of view (isolation and avoiding the sounds of A/C and water heater) and to shield the rest of the house from the noise (music). I was lucky enough to pick up a proper Acoustical Solutions sound proof window used from Ebay for $300 (although I did break one pane in transit and had to spend another $150 on fixing that); and plan to put that in the wall separating the Performance room from the control room. http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/prod ... indows.asp For the control room I thought about adding a sliding glass door to separate it from the Lounge, but in trying to keep modifications to a minimum (I'm not sure how many years I will be at this house); I am now considering using a movable partition. I seem to remember seeing one online from someone like Auralex. I plan on putting down laminate wood flooring in both the control room and performance room. I found a great deal online that is much better than lowes or home depot. So I think that should be about it for setting the scene - if I think of anything else I will add it in a later post, but for now, on with my questions. 1) Can anyone recommend contractors in the DC / Northern VA area that could work on this for me? As previously stated - I'm really keen to start making music. 2) Has anyone tried this route, or have you all done your own construction? I fear that regular contractors would know less about the soundproofing concepts than I do; and I don't want to waste my $$$. 3) Do you think I can get away with just soundproofing the right wall (besides the stairs); the partition between the control and performance room, and the ceiling? 4) Right now the other two walls have the wood paneling straight on top of the concrete blocks I believe. Can I leave this or would you recommend framing a new basic wall with drywall for these two. 5) For the ceiling, Height is at an optimum as with most basements. I have about 7ft 4. I was planning on removing the existing drywall ceiling, stuffing with insulation, and then using a combination of sheetblock and drywall to cover. Should I do the whole ceiling first and then the other walls, or remove the ceiling, frame all of the walls, and then begin the dry walling etc? What is the best order for this? (probably a real rookie question - but I'm not big on construction.) 6) The Sound proof window is huge and ridiculously heavy. Any idea how this thing should be built into the wall to hold it in place? 7) If I want to do track lighting; and be able to use dimmers (to set mood lighting) anyone know of some that are proven to be quiet? 8 ) I have a 30 channel snake that I wanted to use between the control room and the performance room. Any idea on how to run the cable through the partition wall without diminishing the sound-proofing ability of the wall? 9) Is anyone able to predict how much a job like this is likely to cost in materials? 10) Is anyone able to predict how much it might cost if I paid contractors to come in and do the bulk of this (If I did the ceiling demo, flooring and painting). I think that is most of them I can think of for now. I'm sure there are more. Sorry about the verbal diarrhea but I have been planning this and thinking about it for nearly 2 years now, and this is the first time it's come out on paper. Of course, also I am very excited to get some input and start things moving. Many Thanks in advance, and let me know if you need any more info. Best Regards, Andy. p.s. Forgot to add room dimensions. Performance Room Area is approx 10ft8(w) x 23ft 2(l) x 7ft4(h). Control Room Area is 10ft 8(w) - patio door to partition wall x 8ft 6(l) Lounge Area is 9ft2(w) -window to bathroom door x 10 ft 11(l). Height is 6'11 for about 1ft width where the blue wall is marked. This is I think because of a/c ducting. Look to the left of the following picture: That raises a couple more questions: 1) How do I frame the wall around this? 2) The Perf room has two A/C outlets and the C room has 1, but there are not registers for taking stale air out. Do you think I can get by with this or do I need to have an register built into the system to remove air also? (Sorry if my terminology is not correct.) Many Thanks Again. [/list]

yup - we need all the dimensions Andy ;) cheers john

Wow - you caught me on the hop! I wasn't expecting such a quick response. :shock: I have updated the message with the dimensions and greatly look forward to hearing from you. :D Best Regards, Andy

Just to give you an update on a couple of items in this project. I found today that a freind's dad is a General Contractor and has a whole team of dry-wallers that work for him. I am going to be meeting with him to discuss my plans and go over the techniques I have read about here and in the Acoustics 101 book (on Auralex's website). I hope to find out whether he feels competent to take on the Job and give me an estimate of time, materials and labor. I am spending the next couple of days getting all my info printed off for him and will let you know how the meeting goes - fingers crossed! :D

Just been looking around at other posts for ideas and started to wonder why everyone else's alls are angled and mine aren't. :idea: Ahhh - the sound of the penny dropping! So it would seem that I need a complete re-think, since I should be having opposing walls non-paralell. Can't beleive I missed that - seems like quite a fundemental of creating the rooms. Anyways, gonna go have a think about it over the weekend. Please feel free to post if anyone has any ideas or thoughts. i also thought I might be able to use the area under the stairs for a mic closet. Okay, well that's all for now. More soon...

Andy - how about something like this. cheers john

John - This looks great! Funnily enough I was down in the basement this morning trying to think how on earth I could adjust the design to accomodate non-paralell walls and you've nailed it. I really like the addition of a booth between the C.R and Drum room. It adds more flexibility and extra seperation from the noisiest source! The only change I would need to make is to remove the door from the back of the Entrance / Booth, since behind this wall is the water heater and A/C. This is no problem however since there is access from the house through the drum room and from the outside into the C.R. So now I think the next thing I need to do is take a look at the dimensions of the C.R and of my studio furniture and check that eveything fits. I have one 36u rack unit to fit to the right of the Argosy console. All being well, I would then like to present this design to the guy I will be meeting with next week. Do I remember reading that if I download the Smartdraw software I can open your plan in it and get the dimensions of everything in there? If so, would you be able to mail me the source file you created John? Thank you so much for getting me over this stumbling block and offering a truly inspiring design. I'm thinking that my next step should be to move some of my construction questions across to the Studio Construction Forum. Best Regards, Andy

here you go Andy. http://johnlsayers.com/Stuff/andy.sdr

That's great - thank you so much. I am going to move my questions over to the Construction forum now. Many Thanks for all your help, Andy

Hi John, Hope you had a great Christmas and New Year. So since we last spoke I have been working with Steve and Keith in the construction forum to come up with a solid plan of attack for my project. The one problem I have had here is locating single pane sliding glass doors for the booth. (if I use the easily available double pane doors I create 4 leafs and lose LF isolation from the drum room). The only company that makes them here is charging $5000 each for them which is well out of my budget. So I have been throwing around a couple of new ideas (maybe even losing the booth altogether). And thought about a possible re-design to address the problem and wanted to run it by you to see what you think. You will notice that I also used the oppertunity to throw in the acoustic solutions window I have sat in the garage. :D So here is my thought - can you let me know your thoughts/ corrections / suggestions. Best Regards, Andy

John - any chance I could get your feedback on the above re-design suggestion? I have the oppertunity to pick up some salvaged Mahogony Venered Solid Core Doors for $75 a piece and am trying to decide whether I need 2 or 4... Many Thanks in advance, Andy.

Andy - I'd try something like this - no sliders - the extra soundlock can be used as an amp bay. cheers john

That looks great John. Any chance you could attach the file for me to save locally? Many Thanks again, Andy

here you go

once again you are a gentleman and a scholar! All the best, Andy

Hi John, Quick question for you. Having read Rod's book I am seriously considering whether I really need a booth or not. Alos given that I may not be in my house for too long I need to consider resale value and what a future owner might find a soundproof basement useful for (Home Theater likely). So with that in mind, can I simply remove the sound lock and booth, and add a double door configuration per the below do you think? Thanks as always, Andy

Sure that would work - don't underestimate the added benefit to a house resale value by having an acoustically designed home theater.. BTW - why does Rod suggest not having a vox booth?? cheers john

Thanks John, yes that was exactly what i was thinking - that a future owner may love a soundproofed basement for HT, but likely wouldn't want the Vocal Booth - probablly they would just want to have one larger room. Rod does not suggest against VB's in his book - just has you consider whether you really need a booth or not. It really got me thinking, and the more I think about it, the more I see the benefits to go with one recording room: - More Real Estate / less wasted space - Easier for my band to jam - Easier to resell house. - Less Materials / Labour = Less Cost! Chances are most of the work I do down there will not need a booth anyway. I just thought it would be nice for larger projects. Best Regards, Andy

Cool Andy - I can understand your reasoning ;) cheers john