Studio from the ground up ... al thoughts appreciated

First things first ... I need to thank John and all the other regular contributers here for this excellent resource. This has been a prevalent factor in my inefficiency at work as of late :lol: Let me try to put my thoughts in the required framework. Overview & Goals I have an empty space next to my house that I would like to convert to a studio. I have 5.5m between my house and the boundary wall and would like to use it all. That would be the width of the studio. For the lenght I have a maximum of 14m available. (That's about 18' x 45'). I would like the studio to have an awesome drum room. That would be first priority (Ok .. maybe second .. after not having my neighbours on my case). I would like to offer my studio specifically for drum tracking. I would also like to be able to rent it out as practice space for 4-5 piece bands. How Loud With a 4 piece metal band using it as practice space ... probably very loud. My isolation requirement will probably be severe - since the studio will be attached to both my own house AND my neighbours (he built his entertainment room up to the boundary wall of our properties). Current construction As I mentioned there is nothing yet. I'll have to start from foundation. Although .... I was wondering if I could use the wall of my house as part of the outer layer of the studio?. My neighbour's entertainment room was built with concrete blocks (the ones with the holes in). Budget This is difficult - since you probably won't have any knowledge of material and labour costs in South Africa - and neither do I :) Yet. As a ball-park I would probably say US $35 000 max? I would probably do most of the inner room work myself (with some help from friends and family) to cut down on labour costs. Electrical work will also be done at material cost. I also have a friend that lays concrete foundations for a living - so I'll get some help / discount there as well. Questions I will try to attach some pictures to this post. One is drawing of the available space and show my problem with neighbours being RIGHT THERE. The other 2 are ideas I have for layouts (a one booth and a 2 booth layout). The pictures are drawn to scale - studio is 5.5m x 14m. If i don't need all 14 meters it's a bonus - will save some money - What construction will give the necessary isolation I need ? I'm leaning towards solid concrete blocks as outer layer, 8 inch air gap then framing with rigid fibreglass and 2 layers of 12.5mm (~1/2 inch each) Rhinowall (drywall). Floated floors are probably not even optional - I'll need them with my isolation requirements. Still not clear at all about the options I have for ceilings. I was contemplating a solid concrete floor as the celing for the outer shell (as if there would be a second story built on top?). - Any advice on the layout? As I said an awesome drum room is priority. A booth or 2 may be helpfull as well.

Here in the U.S. there are often "setback" regulations that dictate how close one can build to the property line. Setbacks are often specified differently depending on what part of town one lives in -- downtown areas are often more forgiving than the suburbs -- and vary depending on the direction from the street (e.g., front porch 15 feet, garage door 20 feet, side 5 feet, back 12½ feet, not counting roof lines). In my case my side setback is 5 feet, which is the distance between my house and the fence. In other words, the builder left no room to spare. Assuming you live in an area where such things are regulated, you'll want to verify with your local building officials that you're allowed to build in that entire space. It looks like you're proposing to build very close to the front of your lot -- that may be restricted as well. It appears your neighbor has already built to the fence line. Perhaps this is allowed, or perhaps your neighbor did an illegal addition. :? Another factor could be utility easements -- are there any gas lines, electrical lines, water lines, sewer lines, or anything else in the ground in that location that would require access?

I was wondering if I could use the wall of my house as part of the outer layer of the studio?.

It's better if you can avoid doing that. Sharing a wall may save you some money and floor space, but it will increase opportunity for flanking and structural-borne noise invading the house. There may also be other compelling reasons not to connect the new space to the house. Here in the U.S., building permits are often less cumbersome if the building being constructed is separate from the house -- a utility building, vs. a home addition. If this distinction exists in your part of the world, you may wish to explore the ramifications of each. For example, you may not be allowed to have a bathroom if it's a separate building. Hopefully I'm not off-base in mentioning all these odd things... They may have no application to you in your area, but on the other hand, they might -- and these may be applicable to others who view this thread in the future. :)

Floated floors are probably not even optional - I'll need them with my isolation requirements.

Not so fast. In your case, an isolated slab may do the trick, especially if the building is freestanding. That's another advantage to having a separate building. In fact, you may be able to do two isolated slabs, one for each room. They'll need to be thick and strong because your room will be extremely heavy for its size. Do some searches here for isolated slabs. One of the threads you'll find is mine -- good luck sifting through that one! :lol:

I was contemplating a solid concrete floor as the celing for the outer shell (as if there would be a second story built on top?).

If you're doing much of the work yourself (as it seems you will), that's probably not practical. You can achieve some great isolation with conventional materials. If Rhinowall/drywall isn't too expensive in your part of the world, you can probably just use lots of that in your ceiling. But don't forget, you'll need two leaves overhead. You'll need to come up with a plan for heating, air conditioning, and ventilation -- "HVAC" as we say. That's probably one of the most challenging aspects of any design. That's all I have for now. Surely you'll have feedback from others too. --Keith :mrgreen:

Hi Keith Thanks a lot for the feedback. A couple of things I'll clear up:

Assuming you live in an area where such things are regulated, you'll want to verify with your local building officials that you're allowed to build in that entire space. It looks like you're proposing to build very close to the front of your lot -- that may be restricted as well.

My drawing does not include the whole of the front of my lot. There is about 6 meters still from the proposed studio wall to the front of my lot - 4 of these are still within my "setback". I don't think I have a problem in the front. BUT ... I'll make sure.

It appears your neighbor has already built to the fence line. Perhaps this is allowed, or perhaps your neighbor did an illegal addition.

This is allowed if you can get permission from the neighbour in question. I told my neighbour I'll approve his if he'll approve mine :lol: I'm NOT 100% sure if it is allowed for 2 adjasent properties to build up to the same fence line. I will investigate this yes.

Another factor could be utility easements -- are there any gas lines, electrical lines, water lines, sewer lines, or anything else in the ground in that location that would require access?

Nope ... nothing in the ground. Lucky me. *Doubt sets in* Damnit ... I'll have to check that again ...hehe

Hopefully I'm not off-base in mentioning all these odd things...

Not at all .. we've got some very strict regulations regarding buildings. I'm sure you will still save my ass a couple of times before I've even started :)

Not so fast. In your case, an isolated slab may do the trick ..

Isolated slab ... floating floor ... I use the term interchangeably ... need to do some more reading ... again. Shows I don't have the concept down yet.

One of the threads you'll find is mine -- good luck sifting through that one

I've done a fair amount of shifting throught that ...hehehe. What a read :shock:

Quote: I was contemplating a solid concrete floor as the celing for the outer shell (as if there would be a second story built on top?). If you're doing much of the work yourself (as it seems you will), that's probably not practical. You can achieve some great isolation with conventional materials. If Rhinowall/drywall isn't too expensive in your part of the world, you can probably just use lots of that in your ceiling. But don't forget, you'll need two leaves overhead. You'll need to come up with a plan for heating, air conditioning, and ventilation -- "HVAC" as we say. That's probably one of the most challenging aspects of any design.

I will not attempt to do any of the work for the external shell myself. I just thought that a solid concrete external shell would be the best way to go - considering my isolation requirements.I'll have to check what something like that would cost. Normal roof construction in SA is pretty expensive as well. With you on the two leaves yes. I got that part down :) I'll leave the HVAC nightmare till later ... I mean ... if you keep putting off dealing with a problem it will eventually dissapear ...right ? ...RIGHT ? :wink: I'll put up some photos of the space in question - showing my neighbours' building etc.

Screamer wrote:

Hopefully I'm not off-base in mentioning all these odd things...

Not at all .. we've got some very strict regulations regarding buildings. I'm sure you will still save my ass a couple of times before I've even started :)

Great! I realize that in some parts of the world, it's just the opposite. I'm grossly unfamiliar with South Africa (although I have some friends who spent many years there). It's downright scary what some countries allow one to build!!

Isolated slab ... floating floor ... I use the term interchangeably ... need to do some more reading ... again. Shows I don't have the concept down yet.

In short, a "floating floor" is a two-leaf system -- the upper leaf "floats" on elsatometers, such as rubber (Neoprene or EPDM) pucks. An "isolated slab" is a slab that sits alone on the ground. The problem with floating floors is that they need to be very thick and very heavy in order not to resonate at a frequency that would be very bad for isolation. It is also often difficult to bring a floating floor to a density that "keeps up" with the walls, so it often becomes a weakness in the overall design. For example, simply speaking, on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being best), if you have an 8 ceiling, 7 walls, and 4 floor, you have a 4 studio. Don't think for a moment that you can get away with an inferior surface and make up for it with the others -- the lowest score prevails. :shock:

One of the threads you'll find is mine -- good luck sifting through that one

I've done a fair amount of shifting throught that ...hehehe. What a read :shock:

Sorry, I don't believe you -- because if you really did, you couldn't see straight enough to type that! :lol:

I'll leave the HVAC nightmare till later ... I mean ... if you keep putting off dealing with a problem it will eventually dissapear ...right ? ...RIGHT ? :wink:

Riiiiiight. <cough> ;-)

I'll put up some photos of the space in question - showing my neighbours' building etc.

Great -- I almost asked you to do that, but I got lazy. :lol: --Keith :mrgreen:

OK :) Some pictures of the proposed space. I would also apreciate some thoughts on the layout. Especially thoughts about the size of the live / drum room. I really want to have the drum room sound as good as possible. I have no idea what size drum room I need for this - although in acoustics the "bigger is better" rule seems to apply 90% of the time :) Here goes:

Hmm .. .OK .. the file comments doesn't show anywhere in the post ... The pictures from bottom to top are: 1) 5.5m x 10m space. The 5.5m is measured from the wall of my building to the vibacrete wall (horizontal dimension on the pic). The 10m is measured from the front vibacrete wall to where my building stops (vertical dimension on the pic). Hope this makes sense - I should probably just have drawn it on the picture :) 2) Front of the vibracrete wall in first picture. This is where I can still use up to 4 meters of depth - making up the possible 5.5m x 14m total. 3) Close-up of neighbour's building 4) Close-up of my building. A couple of things that makes me nervous - the little box in the top picture is my main electrical connection to the house. This means there might be some electrical wiring where I would like to build - need to find out about this. The same pic - the slots at the bottom of the walls. As I understand these are there to prevent moisture buildup in the walls ? What will the consequences be if I used that wall as part of my outer leaf of the studio ? The roof "overhang". My studio walls will be higher than the roof overhang level. Will this cause major difficulties with the current roof construction? *Sigh* Time to speak to some knowledgable builders - since I don't have the faintest idea.

Screamer wrote:

A couple of things that makes me nervous - the little box in the top picture is my main electrical connection to the house. This means there might be some electrical wiring where I would like to build - need to find out about this. The same pic - the slots at the bottom of the walls. As I understand these are there to prevent moisture buildup in the walls ? What will the consequences be if I used that wall as part of my outer leaf of the studio ? The roof "overhang". My studio walls will be higher than the roof overhang level. Will this cause major difficulties with the current roof construction? *Sigh* Time to speak to some knowledgable builders - since I don't have the faintest idea.

All the more reason to consider not sharing a wall. A standalone building would probably meet all of your needs better, except of course for the lost square footage. :? If you need the space, perhaps you could build further back, and maybe even make an L-shaped building that extends sideways into your back yard. :?: Have you investigated the advantages and disadvantages from a legal perspective? In my area, structures that are separate from the main house require less scrutiny than room additions. :?: Have you determined how close you're allowed to build to the property line, given that your neighbor has already done so? Those spark arrestors atop your chimneys have to be the strangest things I've ever seen -- they look like Darth Vader! :lol: Thanks for sharing the pics. 8) --Keith :mrgreen: