Looking for some floor plan help.

I am going to convert my garage into a recording studio. Dimensions shown below. All space is available (except for the water heater, obv.) I've removed the garage door and it's tracks, and replaced it with a wall with a hole for the a/c unit (already installed). Ventilation and cooling will be important because I'm in Florida and the only cooling is the a/c in that wall. As far as how loud I will be, well, I am pretty sure we'll end up deciding on the room within a room method (assuming that's what's best) and I do plan on miking electric guitars and drum sets. All walls in the garage are block except for the left wall where the house is. It's got sheet rock on it and I have no idea what behind that. The replacemet wall is 5/8"drywall > 2x4s and pink insulation <5/8" T111 board The floor is bare smooth concrete. Just one very close neighbor (our house are about 8' apart) on the right side. You will notice the majority of the floor is 5 or so inches lower than the surrounding lip and floor where the water heater is. Exisiting ceiling has a stucco-type (popcorn stuff) finish. Timeline is basically dependent on my budget, sooner the completion the better, so I can start doing project work to pay for stuff. Ceiling is 8½' high from lower floor I want to have a separate control room, drum room, and vocal room at the very least, but am open to letting you guys help me decide that (as I mentioned I wanna track guitars as well.) My budget is about $5000, the less the better obviously, but no more than that. (Labor and tool costs aren't a factor for the most part.) I just realized we should keep in mind that the water heater may have to be replaced someday and should have a path out the door for it, right? I'm gonna stay illegitimate and not spend money on permits. If it helps, I have access to a decent amount of free cinder blocks, wide banner vinyl, and various poly cloths at large sizes (from my job) Room-in-aroom? Floating floors? Etc? I'm looking forward to hashing this out with you guys!

Start here. Follow the link to the Reference Area and study hard. You're going to need a lot of isolation. How close are your neighbors? What are the noise ordinances in your city? (Don't guess -- call them and get the specifics.) What exactly are the construction materials of your garage? Be very specific... Like you're telling us how precisely to rebuild what you have already. Details count. I appreciate your stating your intentions honestly about (not) pulling permits. I have to disagree with you though. What is your aversion to getting a permit and being legitimate about your project?

Just one very close neighbor on the right side. Only additional construction detail I have is that the replacement wall is 5/8"drywall > 2x4s and pink insulation <5/8" T111 board Reason for not pulling permits is to save on costs and inspections which will all decrease my budget and increase my taxes due to increased living space. If I get hassled/caught I will be forced to pay, but I feel lucky I guess. I'd only have to stop construction til I got things clear... Am I crazy? Here's a visual from when I made the replacement wall:

Hoiw about this way of going - the control room and the studio are on a floated floor but the booth isn't. they'all end up the same height. cheers john

A few questions to start: 1. Is this within budget? Maybe we aren't ready to start talking general costs yet... 2. How would ventilation work? 3. How would we replace the water heater if it breaks? 4. Are there other formations/layouts that would provide separate pros/cons? 5. My budget has to also include any sound absorbers, bass traps etc, or is that unrealistic? Do the angled walls reduce/eliminate the need for some/all of that? 6. In considering the presentation of the studio, would a door built into the replacement wall be a good idea, thus providing a front entrance? Thank you so much for your ideas and time!

Johntron512 wrote:

Just one very close neighbor on the right side.

Ouch.

Only additional construction detail I have is that the replacement wall is 5/8"drywall > 2x4s and pink insulation <5/8" T111 board

That's really inadequate -- and probably as inadequate as the rest of the construction.

Reason for not pulling permits is to save on costs and inspections which will all decrease my budget and increase my taxes due to increased living space. If I get hassled/caught I will be forced to pay, but I feel lucky I guess. I'd only have to stop construction til I got things clear... Am I crazy?

In a word, yes. You're figuring that you can simply not volunteer to pay the permit fee tax and pay the inspection fee tax and also not pay the additional property value tax, until such time that the city discovers the sin, and then the worst that would happen is that you'd have to pay those taxes then, and then be proud of yourself for postponing the payment of those taxes and maybe even save a few bucks in the interim. That's not how it works. If they find out, they will punish you not only by getting you to pay the fees that you didn't pay to begin with, but there's likely a multiplier that will be applied as a fine and then they will have the right to order you to tear it all down because they'll be unable to determine that it was built to code. Now I suppose it's possible for you to stay under the radar all the while... That's assuming that code enforcement is never contacted because all of your neighbors love you -- even the new neighbors who haven't even moved in yet -- and have zero concerns or issues about all that noisemaking going on, all the people coming and going and loading gear. Someday you'll want to sell the house. Then you'll be in the unenviable position of having to disclose the fact that you have unpermitted construction on the property. (I know someone who once passed on buying a house because of an unpermitted garage conversion -- that person is me.) Of course, I suppose it's possible that you'll live in the house until the day you die, so maybe you don't care about that. Let's talk about hazard insurance you have on the house. Suppose there's a fire. Suppose the cause of the fire is attributed to the wiring in your unpermitted construction. The insurance adjuster will be looking for ways not to pay all or part of the claim. Even if the fire isn't your fault, your illegal work may be a culprit in not retarding its spread. The story gets worse if anyone is injured or killed. Yeah, I'm a worry wart. None of that is likely to happen. (Hopefully not.) Now, what's the plus side of getting a permit?

• You'll sleep easier.
• Your project will be legitimate.
• The inspector(s) won't let you do crappy (unsafe) work.
• Your home will increase in value with the additional square footage and won't have an ugly disclosure come resale time.
• You'll be forced to plan everything before building, which may seem like a pain at first but you'll come to appreciate it when you actually do start building. (We'll ignore the fact that you already have started building.)

I'm sure I'm in the minority here. I've been the careful type all my life and being that way has kept me out of trouble and out of harm's way (knock on wood). True story... Another fellow studio builder recently contacted me privately about his project. He was afraid of getting permits and planned on skipping it. I was able to change his mind by suggesting he suspend his fear and go down to the permit office to explore the situation for himself. The happy ending of the story is that he submitted his plans and got approved that same day and was only out $25! He then thanked me for talking him into "going legit." That, combined with the fact that I was successful in securing a permit for my project, has emboldened me to raise the question and proselytize the process more often here. OK... I'll get off my soapbox (for a few minutes, anyway :lol:). I hope that gives you some food for thought and that you'll reconsider your position. Now, I'll take a stab at a few of your questions...

1. Is this within [US$5,000] budget? Maybe we aren't ready to start talking general costs yet...

I doubt it. You'll probably have to double that, at least. I'm not the best person to talk to about costs though. Plus, there may be a Katrina effect on building materials in your part of the world. (Thank goodness that's the extent of the issue for you on that, huh?)

2. How would ventilation work?

I struggled with that for weeks/months. Then, it hit me like a ton of bricks. See my project thread where I discover the heat recovery ventilator that I will use.

3. How would we replace the water heater if it breaks?

Your city's building department should be able to assist you in looking up code requirements for water heater closets. You will have some constraints to work with on that. That may be a major obstacle for you.

4. Are there other formations/layouts that would provide separate pros/cons?

I'm not the layout guy... But I see that John has already presented an idea. That may need to be adjusted though once you figure out all your code related constraints.

5. My budget has to also include any sound absorbers, bass traps etc, or is that unrealistic? Do the angled walls reduce/eliminate the need for some/all of that?

You'll need to spend more... Although you can home grow a lot of that stuff for a fraction of the cost of buying retail ready-made stuff. Keep studying here.

6. In considering the presentation of the studio, would a door built into the replacement wall be a good idea, thus providing a front entrance?

It may be more convenient, but your isolation will take a huge hit. (Assuming you get something more substantial going for those walls of yours -- because you've got a lot of work ahead of you to make those walls perform even close to how you need them to. By the way, even if that window A/C unit stays (which I suspect it won't in the end), that framing job around it is not going to cut it. :shock: I hope I haven't scared you away. I really hope you stop what you're doing and come up with a safe and sound(proof) plan. We can help you do that, but you're going to have to do most of the heavy lifting. Respectfully, --Keith

I just picked up on this...

Johntron512 wrote:

Timeline is basically dependent on my budget, sooner the completion the better, so I can start doing project work to pay for stuff.

If you intend to have customers of your studio, then your studio is no longer a hobby -- it's a business, so you'll likely have to get a business license, and quite possibly a home occupation permit, which would limit what you could do based on zoning and the type of business you'll be operating. I'm sorry to be such a freakin' buzz kill here, but if you choose to build without a permit, operating a business without a license -- especially one that attracts people and vehicles and stuff -- may only make things worse, preventing you from flying under the radar for very long. Sergeant Hulka in the movie "Stripes" once said, "If you're walking on eggshells, don't hop." --Keith

OK, though this is all a lot to swallow, I hear what you're saying and I appreciate the perspective. I'm going to have to find a way to balance my intentions with the law with my budget, because this is something I have already decided to accomplish. As far as fees and permits go, you're right, looking into it and finding out they are negligable amounts might be the case. You also mentioned I'm going to have to have the whole thing planned out first anyway, and that's what I'm here to do. I am not going to live here til I die, I doubt I'll live here 5 years. But I'm trying to make a transition from my current career into a music career (as I once did in the past). Since I own a home, and have the slack for around a $5000 construction budget I figure I've got to be able to make something useful to do project and demo work at least. That ventilation link seems very confusing and I'm not sure if that will end up working with what we'll end up with. Keeping the studio open to the rest of the house IS an option for me as well... The water heater problem with John's design could be solved just by adding another door in that room, no? Let's forget about the front entrance idea for now, it's not necessary. The customers I plan to have will not be all that plentiful or official for a long while. I am looking to transition from a personal studio, to singer/songwriter work to demo work for local bands, and work my way up. I am not going to concern myself with claiming it on my taxes or even calling it a business for a long time. If someone asks what it is, it's my personal studio. All money made will go back into equipment while I still work a day job. Once again, this is why I'm here; to bounce my ideas off people who can be more intelligent, realistic, and creative than I have the experience to be on my own. Thank you for bringing up all these concerns, hopefully the crew here can help me sort this all out and help me end up with a home studio I (and we!) can be proud of.

I'm glad I didn't scare you off, Johntron. More than once today I thought about this thread and wondered how, or if, you'd respond to all of that. Building codes vary from city to city -- each adopts its own "model code" (often UBC, Univerasal Building Code), and then some cities amend the codes in some ways, usually to be more restrictive in one way or another. That being said, regarding ventilation -- I'm quite confident that whatever codes apply in your home town are similar to those in Boise, Idaho. Why do I pick Boise? Just because they've published this lovely sheet that explains ventilation requirements in habitable spaces. In my case, the 0.35 ACH rate is actually 0.50 (i.e., more restrictive). The point is, a habitable room requires a window of a certain size or mechanical ventilation -- either of these can allow the occupant of the room to "get some fresh air in the room." Don't try to wiggle out of this requirement by saying the room won't be habitable -- if it's air conditioned, you're attempting to make it habitable, period. I can state with certainty that you can't "keep the studio open to the rest of the house" and use that tack to skirt the ventilation requirement. Even if you removed the door fto the rest of the house from the frame altogether, that's still a separate habitable room you'll be making. There are rules for what spaces can be "considered" part of an adjacent space/room and they take such things into account as intended use, amount of wall space separating the two, half-walls and how high up they go, etc. It's all very convoluted, but the point is that I'm confident none of those exceptions apply in your case. Bottom line, you need ventilation. How you achieve that is up to you to research (what is possible and what is allowed). When you run into a brick wall, just holler, and we'll help however we can. The ventilation system I'm going to use in my project is really cool (no pun intended). It has four ports on the fan unit -- one sucks fresh air from outside; another pushes that air into the room; still another sucks stale air out of the room; and the last one pushes the stale air to the outside world. What's kind of cool about the system is that the incoming and outgoing air pass each other inside the unit (although they do not mix), in an effort to recover heat for efficiency purposes. In cool climate, heat from the stale air being sucked out of the room warms the fresh air coming into the room, whereas in hot climate, heat from the fresh air being sucked in from outside is transferred to the stale air being pushed to the outside world. At least that's the theory -- it will be interesting to see how well it works in practice. It also has an an electrostatic filter, so dust and other crud is minimized. It's a nice system with powerful fans (hopefully much more than I will need to meet code) and the 6" ducting should be relatively easy to work with. Some air conditioning systems are capable of feeding fresh air into the room. However, that may or may not be sufficient to satisfy the building inspector. So, where do you go from here? I would suggest stopping the building altogether, studying here to learn as much as you can about what does and doesn't work from a soundproofing perspective (i.e., become very well versed in the mass-air-mass principle), develop your plans (layout, construction detail, electrical, ventilation, the whole works), and then when you're pretty confident and comfortable with your plans, take them down to your friendly neighborhood building department to get their feedback. In my case I was able to show some of my earlier illustrations and I got some very helpful (albeit disappointing at the time) advice. Hopefully they will appreciate that you're trying to do the right thing and can help you achieve your goals. Take your time, be methodical, learn as much as you can about what works, what doesn't work, what's allowed, what's safe, what's dangerous, what's wise, what's stuipd, what's best, what's worst, what's cheap, what's a rip-off, what's right, what's wrong. Some of us are teachers, but we're all learners. If you have a few spre hours and a plentiful supply of aspirin, read my project thread from start to finish, and see how confused and frustrated I was at times. :shock: It's all part of "coming of age" in this stuff. I can personally relate to your balancing act -- I too decided I was going to do this thing. And now I am -- finally!! 8) --Keith :mrgreen: