New Studio, Practice Room Design, Advice pls

Hello there, fine people of the internet. I just stumbled on here and funilly enough i'm building a studio. After looking at all your tips on making control rooms, i feel that i am in need , please can you 'Pimp My Studio' :shock: The local council come round on the 25th to give the go ahead or not. I already had the architecht make the plans for me and this is what we came up with.*see image below* Now according to the rulz my control room fails in a few areas: A window directly behind the possible mix area, A slightly non uniform shape because of the vocal room and AR (cuboard) Solution for the window is to have an adjustable wooden blind and curtain to cover the window not being used. Possibly tip ex out the vocal room for the purposes of building application and use room one of the other larger rooms for this purpose. Another solution is that if the sound reflection is a bit dodgey in the control room, build another mastering area in the lobby (now office) more to your designs. Now there are a few things u might also pull up like swapping the control room with studio 1. The reason why it is there, is so recordings can take place in room 1 or 2 and also see through into 3 if necessary. Access to the garden through the door in the control room is a bonus because if bands are just practising (i recon 90% of the time) people can go out and chill in the garden. You might also suggest a gangway between the control room and studio 2 but i think this is bad because i don't want to minimise the studio space by doing that. I feel that as there are enough access points to juggle entry depending on who is using which room at what time. Sometimes it could be an arse, but i also don't mind people actually coming in quietly to the control room and moving through as i hope it would encourage them to use the room and see what is going on in the studio. The empfang room (foreroom) is not a working area as due to law there is no light or air so i'll stick a sofa and some vending machines in there whilst people wait, so they can be there or in the control room if it's not being used. Now that's all very complicated, but i feel i needed to justify some weak points in the design, maybe you have a better solution to maximise space. oO, also their is no Ventilation, only that provided by the windows (double of course, alarmed so they are only opened by staff to prevent noise leakage). I want to build another toilet in the Lichthoff later, but that will take a long time for the council to accept so it's a stage 2 thing (as well as possibly the mixing area in the lobby). Everything is done on the room in room, floating floor principle, i've had a pro building physicist certify everything so it's quite a mature idea. That's why i suppose smaller changes are better, but if some crazy genius comes up with a better idea, then hell why not, i'll reprint everything and go for it. The grey walls are the old walls on the pic, the red the new, and the blue are windows, green fire escape, and the little blue thing in the toilet is extreemly dirty and piss filled, well not actually blue any more. Be glad to hear from u! P.S. Is it worth me dropping the floor about 20cm? What would you do with the ceiling, i thought just build around the beams and keep the shape the same with a few slants between 6-8° here and there? I think that would look mellow with spotlamps on the curves. :D

Please edit your profile to include a location, as per the "Before You Post" announcement. Cool room -- can't wait to see things going on this.

can't wait for advice and ideas. *twitch* :?

Paul - why not break up the parallel walls and have a clean access in and out like this. cheers john

and for your ceiling I'd avoid the curved ceiling as it focuses all to one point like a lens. I'd do something like this cheers john

Too bad you'd have to say "good bye" to the cool curved arches... :roll: ...but "it's all about the sound," huh? ;)

I dunno if the low roof is good, i'm about 1m83cm tall and if i stand by the side of the wall, the arch is about at eye level which would make it very claustraphobic. The window would also have to be cut in half making it about 70cm which is totally undesirable as i want a naturally lit option as well as artificial. Dropping the floor 1m is a no go, think celler, think damp, think price, think structural instability. According to the government regulations (damn them) for working spaces every room where someone is employed needs a light source. Therefore the back room of the control room as you made it is not possible as it's blocks the light source, flipping it 180 is, but then should i use a single window, or double window and are they central, would this mess up the monitoring, would the engineer get a strained neck if recording a georgous singer? Facing the artist is more desiable and the option to switch directions to set it up for room 1 or 2, might be handy. I understand the sidways direction does both too. But again then again i love breaking rulez. (puny futile existance) I'm also loosing a lot of space for studio 1 if i rent the rooms out for full bands, it'll be a bit of a squeeze in there and i'd have to charge less, possibly making me a poorper in no time. :cry: The dotted lines on the architechts diagram show the arches, they are less than half a meter wide and this was my major consideration for the room designs. One of the arches goes slightly off to one side down the middle on the diagram you made for me so if i encourporate it that might also be undesirable for off centre reflections in the control room so i'm not happy with that. I'd prefer to make one of your designs in the office (lobby) later for serious mixing and mastering unless we can tweak this up. If the slant of the ceiling covering the arch is about 6-8° surely this is recomended. The height of the arches should not effect the acoutics dramatically if speaker units are on the sides of the room and the walls absorb most of the reflections, if micing is also done to the sides and not in the middle and i call directly under the arch area a no mic zone? Presently studio 1,2 & 4 have an arch right in the middle of the rooms, studio 3 has 2 splitting it into 3's, If a full band is in the room and close miked this might actually help stereo imaging, maybe i'm a nutter? I know exactly where you are coming from and it is all about the sound and that, but has it ever been tested or tried? A full arched roof all the way would bollox it up completly for sure, I've seen it, heard it, and reverberated in it, but there's an extra meter and a half of room up there and with the windows, lighting plan (in the middle on the arches) and so on, maybe it's better to improve the enviroment so it's not clautraphobic rather than follow all the rules 100%. Arches arches, it's a real toss up. I can't take them down. The better solution might be to slope the arch as you drew, but still build up to the top of the roof in a 'stereo splitting roof absorbant manner' (yes i just made that up). :lol: Hey isn't there a famous studio where u walk right into the control room anyway, and people like that cos it's just fruity, made them famous too! The cut diagram is a bit useless for this purpose of discussion but it gives you the matirials. The last layer is yet undecided, but wooden panels, curtains and so on would be just fine, some area's a thick layer of paint only.

Hi Paul, (von wo bist Du denn genau? :)) What's the reason for not going the way John sketched up with the roof? More headroom, easier acoustics, more options for absorber, polys, etc. The floated floor on Sylomer: is it wood or concrete? I'm also intersted why your walls are going to be build the way you have in the plan? From that I guess that soundproofing is not your main concern, right? That's a great thing as I suppose this wallstructure makes in room acoustics much easier in comparison to the rooms of most other folks around here who have to build rigid, massive walls for good isolation and the bass can't leave the room. Grüsse Florian

This is how I see it Paul. Floating a floor is not an option IMO - the benefit in Iso v ceiling height doesn't warrant it. cheers john

the dreamer wrote:

Hi Paul, (von wo bist Du denn genau? :))

This project is based in Vienna by the Prater

the dreamer wrote:

What's the reason for not going the way John sketched up with the roof? More headroom, easier acoustics, more options for absorber, polys, etc.

My head would hit the cieling in most of the room. I'm not Godzilla either. Therefore as we can't cut the arches, somehow we have to encourporate them in the design, (these are the grey dotted lines on the original plan). I think the extra roof space is necessary for the full window light and door access so i'd prefer to somehow build around them or come up with another solution. I'd also like to know if his lines work better around the arches and then cut around them. Someone said put a big cone in the middle to me today, i can just imagine someone stage diving on it.:lol:

the dreamer wrote:

The floated floor on Sylomer: is it wood or concrete?

Concrete base, wooden floated floor on absorband pads.

the dreamer wrote:

I'm also intersted why your walls are going to be build the way you have in the plan? From that I guess that soundproofing is not your main concern, right?

Wrong, why do you think that? We are trying to beef up the sound quality. The isolation technique is a garaunteed method provided by a professional bauphysik [/quote]

the dreamer wrote:

massive walls for good isolation and the bass can't leave the room.

It's the layers of matirials, the air gap and the air tight room i think that does that. [/quote] Chow P.

John Sayers wrote:

This is how I see it Paul. Floating a floor is not an option IMO - the benefit in Iso v ceiling height doesn't warrant it. cheers john

Cool skylight! What's a port to trap. i don't understand the insulation technique in the bass trap. We should be careful without a floating floor, there are neighbours living upstairs, might the non floating floor create a risk of resonating out to the walls, and up?

Sorry - I didn't realise the neighbours were above :) I assumed they'd be beyond the massive walls :) there is a possibility that the sound will flank through those walls but as you have minimum ceiling height I'd tend to avoid it and wait to see what gets through - if it does create a problem you can always add the floor later. Just make sure all your wall frames meet the floor with rubber isolation to start with so your new structure is floating and isolated from the main structure. A bass trap in this case is where you allow the sound to get into an area - like the cavity between the arches, and absorb it so it doesn't get back out. The port is the access to the ported area and the ceiling becomes a false ceiling between the main room and the trap area. cheers john

Paul wrote:

[Wrong, why do you think that? We are trying to beef up the sound quality. The isolation technique is a garaunteed method provided by a professional bauphysik It's the layers of matirials, the air gap and the air tight room i think that does that.

I understand, can you explain the composition of this assembly a bit? I like to learn! :D If this is soundproof I guess the sound is absorbed/damped from layer to layer??? Did your acoustician tell something about expected TL? How thick is this assembly? It's hard to see it all from the plan. This is what I meant above, most of us have to put up with several layers of drywall due to cost and space. Acoustics are suffering. In Newells Recording Studio Design he describes wall assemblies that soundproof and absorb at the same time. Great for inroom acoustics but expensive and spaceconsuming. This is why I wonder what's the deal with yours. Thanks in advance Florian

Would this kind of shape be wrong?

Yes - you could do that - what is the ceiling height here - From waht you've given us I'm assuming the fllor to bottom of arch in center would be around 2.1 - 2.2m?? cheers john

I'll have to go back and measure, i can't find the architect's cut plan.

Ceiling height on arch = 2.50m Ceiling height on side = 1.85m Maybe a little higher than previously guessed. I really think we should build a floating floor as it is agreed upon by all concerned that it is necessary for insulation, it's better to be safe than sorry. The local council accept that method and might not allow us to open without it. If we don't build the floor first then doing it after is really the wrong way round. We want to put pipes, cables and studio cable channels under the floor. Estimated height 20cm. Is there anything wrong with building around the arches in the shape i described last time with the flat top then going high again? They'd make an excellent place for spotlamps. I'm not specialist but if the area for sound absorbtion is greater, shurly the absorbtion will also be greater? It's also possible to create bass absorber in the ceilings the way you pointed out. The port it will need full insulation behind it anyway? I've never seen a bass trap with port so it's really interesting to me, but i'm afraid of making it because i have no idea about how big the port should be, matirals, balanced frequeency responce in the room. It might be worth building first, then testing then adding the ports if necessary.