New House and New Studio from scratch. Help!

Hello everyone, I'm new to the group here and really glad to have found this place. My wife and I are in the middle of building a new home. It's coming along nicely and I'm fortunate enough to have a small room dedicated to just my personal hobby studio. I say hobby studio because I don't do this for a living but do occassional composing for game projects and such. So it's a semi-hobby I guess. The reason I say that is because I don't plan on recording full bands in this room. It's only 10' by 13', but it's all mine to do what I want with. Yay! Most of what I do is strictly compsed on my daw, sequencers, midi yada yada. I do have a VDrum kit and guitar amps that will be recorded in there, and I'll be recording vocals in there as well. Since I'll be recording and playing in the same room, I've built a silent workstation (well damn close to it) and would like to keep the room as isolated from incoming and outgoing noise as possible. I want to be able to work in here till the whee hours of the morning jamming on my drums, and blaring the amps without disturbing my wife and two kids. Ok, so here is the current situation. You can see in the pic that I have a standard floor and two by four walls. Wiring is now in place with tons of receptacles. But before the drywall goes up (if that's what I should use) I'd like suggestions on isolating the floor and ceiling from transmitting vibrations throughout the house. Also the walls are going to be insulated and I plan on using a soundproof drywall in there. SO I guess it's a pretty huge question I'm asking. I've never built a room like this before and want to get it right while everything is still under construction. Also, I will have access to the attic through a crawl space directly above the music room in the celing. I just resized the image so I hope this helps. Thanks again! -Tracy

Start by resizing your image. Andre

Hi Tracy, It is pretty cool that you are thinking about this before the room is finished. Because that will save you a lot of trouble. certainly if you want isolation you will want at the very minimum multiple layers of drywall on EACH side of the walls in your room. so make allowances for that. electrical boxes will have to be made to work with thicker drywall don't have any electrical boxes "back to back", make sure they are separated by one stud cavity minimum. use putty packs to isolate and fireproof back of receptacels boxes. of course that means that adjacent rooms will have extra drywall on "their" side of the wall too. if you are looking to save space in your room which i assume you are, you probably want to use resilient channel to mount the inside layers of drywall to the studs. the same logic applies to the ceiling if you really want good isolation in your walls you would build a separate stud frame for your inner wall. but that eats up space quick in a small room. with floors, you attach multiple layers of subfloor to your rooms floor, and on the ceiling below also hang multiple layes of drywall from resilent channel. all the walls/ceiling/floor needs to be filled with insulation. for the door, get a solid core heavy type door. if you can do a double door, one swinging in and one swinging out. like in a hotel where two rooms connect. make sure you get a good seal on the threshold. this should get you thinking. the most important thing is to read this site A LOT and learn AS MUCH AS YOU CAN before going further. one more thing. before spending a LOT of money on "special" drywall, make sure you "cost it out" to be sure that it is a better deal for you than just spending the same amount of money on extra layers of drywall. it may make sense for you, since you are limited in space but it very well may not. you can buy a lot of normal drywall for the cost of a sheet of "special" drywall. dollar for dollar which gives you more bang for the buck? hope that helps dan

Ditto everything Dan just said. And then ditto what I just said about everything Dan just said. ;)

This is easy. " " what Dan wrote. Thanks for resizing the graphic. Andre

Ok, I've read MUCH more and checked out several soundproofing supplier sites. It seems that as I get educated on this, I'm passing on the info to my contractor who has never had to do anything like this before so we're learning together. I've convinced him to use R-Channel on the walls and ceiling and he's also going to put soundboard on the walls of the adjacent rooms. I'm having a hard time convincing him that two layers of drywall will help and that the R-Channel will hold it. So I just faxed him tons of info off this site. Fortunately all the electrical boxes between rooms do not share stud cavities so we're good there. I'm thinking for the floor, I should put down Auralex Sheetblock or Mass Vinyl, which I'd also like to put in between the drywall layers if I can convince my contractor to do so. My big concern is the floor isolation. Right below the studio is above my kitchen which is open to the great room. So any kick pedal thumps, (electronic as they may be) might still be heard below. Also, I'll pick up the Auralex Stop Gap for the electrical outlets instead of puddy packs. But maybe puddy packs are better? Here are a few more pics. Thanks again for the help.

hey tonemonkey, you will need to add RC and multiple layers of drywall to your kitchen ceiling as well, if you want isolation between these two rooms. floors do not work differently than walls. the exact same rules apply. so your kitchen ceiling will be at least 1 1/2 inches lower than the great room. also that means that "pot lights" in the kitchen ceiling are out of the question. unless they are sealed and "boxed" in the same amount of drywall as your ceilign uses. but i don't know if that is approved or not. it might get too hot in a box like that. stick to surface mount lighting only. no holes in the leaves! maybe some nice surface mount halogen fixtures ... that's all i got. dan

Hmm.. Ok it looks like I have my next mission. Unfortunately, the lighting in the kitchen is non negotiable, and I doubt my wife would go for a sperperate ceiling level in her sacred living/kitchen area. Also, the recessed lighting is already installed. Crap. I guess I'm lucky to have this room as it is. ;-) So I think I need to look into modifying the floor of the studio. Even if I have to step up into it, that would be acceptable. Man this room just keeps getting smaller and smaller. Ok, so now I'll be searching the threads for how to isolate the floor. I guess this is what they call the "Floating Floor" thingie eh? Thanks again!

Tonemonkey, Well ok you can't intrude into the wife's domain :) is it still possible to get at the backside of those pots, they are going to be where all the sound comes through into the kitchen. see if you can surround them with a drywall box safely and legally or maybe (crazy idea?) you could surround the pots with "putty packs" which are normally used for electrical boxes (i think i mentioned these in an earlier post). again there may be a heat issue with this, i don't know enough about it. also can you still put insulation in the kitchen ceiling, this is really a MUST!!! i would simply add more layers to your floor as you can SAFELY ... floating floors can be more harm than good, because unless it is very massive there is always one audible frequency at which it works VERY poorly (the resonant frequency). Dan

Thanks Dan, I will talk to my electrician about the heat build up around the recessed lights and see what he says. And we'll definitely get insulation throughout the kitchen ceiling. As far as the floor in the room itself, I could probably go up another 8 inches if necessary. We'll see. Thanks again Dan and everyone!

ToneMonkey wrote:

I doubt my wife would go for a sperperate ceiling level in her sacred living/kitchen area.

Ask your wife what she values most in her "sacred living/kitchen area" -- not having a ceiling a tad bit lower, or not being disturbed by your noise. It really is an either/or situation -- she can't have both and must sacrifice one (or both if not done properly). Let her make an informed decision.

Dan wrote:

. . . see if you can surround [the recessed lighting] with a drywall box safely and legally or maybe (crazy idea?) you could surround the pots with "putty packs" which are normally used for electrical boxes (i think i mentioned these in an earlier post). again there may be a heat issue with this, i don't know enough about it.

I'm the resident worry wart around here, and I must say that this makes me very nervous. :? Low voltage track lighting, including pendants, is very stylish right now. Perhaps your wife can also be convinced to reconsider the recessed lighting as a non-negotiable item and move to something mounted on the surface, so that your ceiling need not be compromised with large holes. Those :shock: huge :shock: gaping holes that the recessed cans require will have a horrible effect on your soundproofing efforts, such that the entire ceiling itself might as well not even be there! (I have no scientific evidence to back this up, but others here might.)

ToneMonkey wrote:

I should put down Auralex Sheetblock or Mass Vinyl, which I'd also like to put in between the drywall layers if I can convince my contractor to do so.

Please read this post before you commit to Mass Vinyl (MLV). In short, you can accomplish more with less $. I think there are similar threads about "sound board" but I can't locate them right now (and I'm late for work). Hope that helps. It must be very exciting to watch your house being built before your eyes :) -- that's an experience that I'll probably never have myself.

sharward wrote:

I'm the resident worry wart around here, and I must say that this makes me very nervous. :?

me too, keith ... but piling insulation around pots makes me nervous too, and it's perfectly okay if you use the correctly rated can. anyway, TM should check this himself. :D

True, Dan... I guess I'm just hoping our ToneMonkey friend here determines with certainty that the recessed lighting is necessary and not negotiable after presenting the alternatives are are known to perform better in terms of isolation and are not subject to the same kinds of safety concerns (whether real or imagined). I would hate to see his dream foiled by an inferior kitchen ceiling -- especially when he has the enviable opportunity to do this thing right from the get-go without retrofitting an imperfect solution later on. :)

I know they look pretty but they leave a heck of a gap in the sheetrock and if you put insulation over a recess can you will either start a fire or blow a breaker. I am a licensed union electrician and i cant tell you how many times i have had a customer tell me that there breaker keeps blowin or they smell plastic burning and what i find is a big wad of insulation covering the can. these things put out heat. we use those same bulbs to heat up our lunch on jobs. a 4x2ft box with a 150 watt light bulb will heat up a frozen tv dinner in about 4 hours. Hope i helped.

rocktavian wrote:

Hope i helped.

Heck yeah that helped :) Don't want to be starting any fires now do we? :shock: Keith, I guess that shows your "stupid idea detector" is working fine (goes off a lot when i'm around). :D

rocktavian wrote:

Hope i helped.

Not only have you helped, Sir, but you we may shower you with appreciation in the form of electrical questions from this point forward! :lol: Thanks very much for helping us keep ToneMonkey's house in a "not burning down" state. :)

Ok, thanks so much. I'm getting the same concerns from my electrician now so I know not to go that route. No insulation around the can. Now it has also been determined that the cans are non negotiable. They are there and I have to live with it. But that's what makes this fun. Now I get to think of creative ways to work around this. I'm hoping it's ok to still put insulation in the kitchen cieling but keep it about a foot away from the can. I know this may not help much since there is a gaping hole in the drywall, but every little bit helps right? I'm really thinking it's going to result in a step up in the studio. I have no problem building an additional floor on top. I just need to learn how to go about it now. On a side note, I ordered the R-Channel from Auralex yesterday. Now to show my contraactor how to use it. Ok, more to come. Thanks for all the advice and thanks for stopping me from burning down my new home. Hmmm.. that would be a fun one to explain to my wife... Thanks again everyone.

check out quietsolutions.com they arent cheap but they have some relly nice solutions from a special plywood to stc50 drywall.

also http://kineticsnoise.com/

rocktavian wrote:

check out quietsolutions.com

Actually, don't. Read this thread about QuietSolutions stuff. Remember: STC doesn't mean squat for studios.

i just figured he could put their special plywood on his floor to keep nois from bothering the kitchen but please explain as i thought stc had alot to do with studios

stc is a good rough guide, but it doesn't take into account frequencies below 125 hz. so it doesn't tell us anything about a barrier's low-frequency performance. to really compare construction methods or proprietary methods/products you need to see a curve of the TL at frequencies from 50hz up. (it would be nice if you had from 20hz up but that data is rarely found). also because of the way stc is derived two walls with wildly different TL curves can end up with the same STC number. so use stc to weed out the obvious good from the bad, and then examine the TL curves along the freqeucny spectrum to really do a good comparison. stc DOES take into account the way the human ear hears low freqencies less, and weights low frequency sound less. so it does try to incorporate the "annoyance factor" not just raw dB numbers. also on average the frequencies below 125 hz are roughly predictable, because the curve tends to continue along the same slope. but stc ignores what are sometimes dramatic abberrations in performance at the lower frequencies, which would be seen as 10 or sometimes 15dB humps or more likely dips in performance. dan

Nice explanation, Dan. For those not familiar with the abbreviation "TL," it stands for "Transmission Loss," i.e. soundproofing. High TL = good soundproofing.

Well what I've decided is ...I am going to float the floor. That way I can safely isolate the studio from the kitchen below and everyone should be happy. Now, I've done a little reading and it sounds so simple that I'm afraid I've missed something. From what I've gathered I understand the process as follows... For a 112 sq/ft room I'll need roughly less than 100 U-boats from Auralex. I then plan on putting 2x6s on 16 or maybe 24 inch centers in the U-boats, then filling between with insulation. I hear everyone talk about rockwool but if I understand correctly, fiberglass insulation works just as well? Next I make sure that none of the 2x6s are touching any part of the wall and a space is left so that even the drywall won't make contact. Finally I plan to sheet it with 3/4 inch MDF and then do a carpet with padding. Ok... what does everyone think? Did I miss a little.. a lot, or am I totally insane? Thanks!

TM, i doubt you want to go this route. the first thing is, it is going to be extremely heavy. are you planning to support the inner walls and ceiling on this floating floor? have you calculated what this structure plus all your equipment/furniture is going to weigh? can your house's floor support this? not without major upgrading of structure, is my guess. maybe steel beams. maybe not. but serious upgrading. would you put a 500 gallon hot tub on the second floor without reinforcement, i don't think so. :) this is a question for an engineer. but if you do get an enginner and decide to do it safely, make sure that you make the inner and outer leaves of your floor very thick, at least 3 or 4 sheets of 3/4 inch plywood each. if you do this and have a large (say 8 inch) airspace you MAY get the cavity resonance down to a reasonable level. you can calculate this based on the actual materials and airspace you are using. see this link for a good calculator http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=1522 if you create a cavity with too high a resonance, it makes the floor LESS soundproof at that frequency and the surrounding frequencies, and can mean that you wasted your time, money and headroom. below resonance frequency, the floating has no effect. so you must keep the resonance frequency low by making the leaves heavy and the airspace big. dan :)