What size for exterior "box" around studio?

Hello again everyone, I was referred to the "read before posting" thread when I attempted my first post here. So I'll go ahead and present this post answering all the questions in the guidelines. However, if you don't feel like reading every detail below, I just need to know the optimal exterior dimensions of the "box" that will inclose the studio I'm thinking of creating. My needs are basic mixing mastering of pre-recorded material, recording my own guitars and vocals, and occasional rehearsing with a small PA that I perform with. Looks like a very supportive and helpful community here with plenty of passion and attention to detail. Thanks in advance for any help --Eric 1. Review reference area -- I need to get an idea of the basic "box size" I need to enclose the studio....that is all right now. All reference material I found was about pre-existing dimensions and interior construction. 2. Use search feature -- all found discussions under "dimensions" or "studio size" + "needs" or "plan" or combinations of the above resulted in discussions about pre-existing dimensions or dimensions that had already been decided before the thread was created. I couldn't find discussions about deciding what dimensions are optimum for needs like mine. 3. Profile is edited 4. Overview: -- I need to add a studio to a property I'm looking at buying because there are no pre-exisiting structures that would work. Whether or not I buy the property depends on how much it costs to build the basic "box" that will house the studio. I don't know how much a basic box will cost because I can't tell a GC how big the "basic box" needs to be. I don't know what dimensions would be optimum for my needs, and am not sure the most cost effective way to build that box (add on to side of garage, pop top of garage, add to back of garage). NEEDS: Recording, mixing, re-mastering all my produced backing tracks for my solo act show (what I've been doing for a living the past 8 years.) Authoring, mixing, DVD's, and mixing/mastering other pre-recorded material Recording my own acoustic guitar and vocals for singer/songwriter project Working with my live PA when needed (1 eaw 15" sub, 2 ramsa 12" w tweeters -- essentially any throw beyond 12" is long enough) I need a "box" size that will work for current stereo and surround mixing/mastering in the future. 5. How loud are you/neighbors: -- Neighbors at location I'm considering are quiet, the property is on a 1/2 acre. I mix/master at low volumes unheard outside my existing rental (40's stick construction on concrete slab with a fair amount of insulation). When I work with the live PA, it can be discerned and heard mildly within 20 ft of this rental house (sound like someone has a stereo on), but disappears when I step into neighbors structures (30 ft away). 6. Include as much detail as possible: -- CONSTRUCTION-there is no existing construction for the studio "box". If the studio gets added to the existing garage, the garage construction is stucco coated Cinder, concrete slab floor, 7 ft wall height, no ceiling, just the exposed triangle trusses, and 3 small windows. 7. Acoustics is THREE DIMENSIONAL: -- there are no set dimensions for the "box" for the studio. However, the dimensions of the garage are (exterior) 12'W X 22'L X 7'H. There are no non-parallel features. 8. Include drawings: -- not applicable since I don't know optimal size for the studio "box". 9. Jpegs are sized appropriately 10. Group my questions: A. What is an optimal exterior "box" size for a one room control/recording/rehearse room for the needs discussed above? B. If I'm the one doing my own guitar/voice recording, isn't it better to have just one large room instead of the multiroom plans that I've seen so much of? C. Is a floated floor required for my needs? D. Should I build this structure with ZERO windows? What about resting the eyes by focusing on distant objects outside a window? Here is a shot of the property I'm looking at.

Your information helps al ot. The only problems aare you did not describe how large a performance space you would like. These posts may make that good by helpingpresent options and ideas. You did not specifily a finished insdie size, so I am going to use for exampkle purposes a 10 x 16 21' room, plus about a 16 x 8 hall/washroom/tech/inst strage area. Tha makes a finished inside one room about 16 x 30 with a 10' ceiling. You don't need masive sojund isoation so 1' per thickness of wall makes 18 x 32 x 12 using 2' for ceiling.

B. If I'm the one doing my own guitar/voice recording, isn't it better to have just one large room instead of the multiroom plans that I've seen so much of?

You can do that. IT is [/quote]your choice.

C. Is a floated floor required for my needs

No

D. Should I build this structure with ZERO windows? What about resting the eyes by focusing on distant objects outside a window?

The limitation will be your local building bylaws. No need acoustically. Andre

AVare wrote:

....you did not describe how large a performance space you would like. You did not specifily a finished insdie size, so I am going to use for exampkle purposes a 10 x 16 21' room, plus about a 16 x 8 hall/washroom/tech/inst strage area. Tha makes a finished inside one room about 16 x 30 with a 10' ceiling. You don't need masive sojund isoation so 1' per thickness of wall makes 18 x 32 x 12 using 2' for ceilingAndre

Thanks Andre! Here's more info: Studio width inside measurements: My current studio desk/rack requires about 10feet width. I'm currently setup in a 9'6" wide room. Studio length inside measurements: I've worked with my live performance PA (1 eaw 15" sub and 2 ramsa 12" with tweeters) in a 1 car garage about 20 feet long and in my current rental house in this 21 foot long room with my desk/racks and done reasonably well mixing and mastering over the PA. Now 95% of that work is done over my Adam S2-A monitors and I still use PA for final check and rehearsal. Ceiling height: My current ceiling is only 7feet the studio monitors are 35.8 inches off the floor, but height is completely adjustable. I work with my PA while I'm standing/playing guitar. The speakers sit "horizontally" with the center of the cone and tweeter at roughly 65 inches off the floor. My current ceiling at 7 feet high is too low for working with the PA, so obviously anything above 7 feet is going to help. I can conclude that I need a minimum of about 10 feet W x 20 feeet L x whatever is a good height above 7 feet. However, thats what I need.... I don't know what the optimal ratios for height/width/length are on the outside "box" using my minimum width/length requirements. I also don't know what the optimal inside H/W/L ratios are given my minimal requirements. Can anyone else contribute some H/W/L ratios? Maybe Andre's ratios of 16W x 21L x 12H are perfect, perhaps there are other ideas out there. With those ratios, and adding on whatever I may need in additional space, I can tell the builder what size to build and get a basic cost estimate for building. After we get some basic idea of H/W/L I can add more details, hopefully get a sketch up, and we can get to work on getting some high/low estimates for constructing the inside. Thanks in advance for any input --Eric

Teh change in tone in your last post is great! The initia example I used 10 x 16 x 21 is a good ratio. If you want more info I suggest you at least read Walkers' BBc paper on the subject. lt is very technical, but it gives teh best idea behind "good" room ratios and their history. Walker'spaper is at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1993-08.pdf The 12' exterioir hieght I gave was including space for HVAC etc. A conservative number that will not be exceeded with detailed design. Keep the great info coming! Andre edit: I just came across this on Studiotips. http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?p=18842#18842

Here's a simple intro that may help you follow the BBC stuff - http://www.aptcommunications.com/consider.htm#ratios This doesn't include any of the other noted acousticians' contributions to optimum room ratios, such as Bolt, Sepmeyer, Beranek - Here is another page with more info - http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?p=5570 The author of that page is a degreed acoustician whose work includes the quietest studio in the world - Galaxy studios in the Netherlands. As Andre said, windows with your mild isolation needs should be no problem; you just need to use non-multi-paned ones, and two of them per window spaced several inches apart, and you can get enough isolation for what you describe. From your comments, it sounds like a single room might work best for your needs; I've worked this way for some time and as long as you're a solo act there's no need to cater to others' requirements for space, etc - I write/record from a "jet cockpit" approach that's worked pretty well for me. Everything I need can be reached from the same chair, just by rotating around. I don't have pix of the "before" version, and I'm in the middle of a re-do - but basically I have a mix desk with two mixers on top, two video monitors between the speakers (a center channel will be added between the two video monitors next) - two low equipment racks to one side, then a set of V-drums, then stands for bass and guitar each with their own processor, then a key stack, and finally a small section to get into/out of the "cockpit" - the drums are opposite the Video monitors, so I use a mirror on a stand so I can see the video monitor while playing the drums - I set the time code window to HUGE while doing drum tracks so I can see it easily (but backward) in the mirror. Works fine. That whole setup only takes a space that's about 10 x 12, but adding a separate area for PA rehearsals would probably double that; One of the better known "golden rooms" is a ratio of 1:1.6:2.33, so an INSIDE dimension (rectangular assumed for the moment) of 10' ceiling, 16' x 23.3', would give you all the room you need without feeling cramped. (Inside dim's are what's important here, not outside ones.) Those dim's also yield a cubic volume of 3728 cubic feet, more than double the BBC's recommended MINIMUM room volume for half-way decent sound (1500 cu ft) If you want splayed walls for flutter control without excess absorption (more control of desired reverb times) you would need to use AVERAGE dimensions, so the outer shell would need to be a bit larger than for a straight rectangular room. Then, considering that a 6 degree splay requires approx. 1 foot of splay per 10 feet of run, your outer side walls would need to be far enough apart inside to allow for a bit more than a foot extra each side so that the AVERAGE INSIDE width of the finished room is 16 feet, and same with length. (Length, to average 23.3 feet, would need to be about 1.6 feet longer than the 23.3 feet. Outer walls, since you're starting from scratch, get to be whatever is necessary to get what you want from the INSIDE. The short walls can be double-splayed (in and back out) so that the room remains symmetrical and still presents no parallel surfaces. The ceiling will need to slope upward to the rear from the mix position - for the last 1/3 or so, it can slope back down but will need some absorption in spots to keep early reflections from getting back to the mix position. Again, a minimum of 6 degrees splay for the ceiling, 12 is better. 6 degrees is almost exactly 1 foot in 10. Again, these "magic" dimensions are INSIDE dimensions between hard surfaces; so if you have absorbers 6" in from the walls, don't subtract that 6" from your dimension when figuring modal ratios, it's the ENTIRE dimension between hard surfaces that counts. Splayed rooms don't get RID of modes, they just make them more confusing, harder to calculate, BUT less pronounced generally - splays also minimise the need for absorption, so you can choose how dry you want the room based on REVERB needs, not OTHER problems that can be fixed with splaying. Gotta go for now, hope this helps... Steve

WOW! Just got in from a gig (#3 of 4 this week). And am VERY pumped about the info. I found some ratio info, room calcs etc, but the info you guys have provided is very excellent and just what I needed. Thanks for including the "assumed" info into your post. That stuff is gold for someone like myself without all the basic background info. I'll run with it and keep posting when I get a chance. I may get called away to hurricane Dennis, but whether that happens or not, I'll follow up. Thanks again!! --Eric

Knightfly wrote:

Those dim's also yield a cubic volume of 3728 cubic feet, more than double the BBC's recommended MINIMUM room volume for half-way decent sound (1500 cu ft)

Not only that, but it also very close to the CCITT/EBU/NARAS "reference" volume of 3500 cu ft! I hope you are not called away to huricane Dennis, because would mean tragedy had occurred. Andre