Framing walls to existing drywalled ceiling

scalpshifter wrote:

. . . caulking that attic space with a heat index of 110 outside (who knows what it was in the attic) was a sweat-a-thon!

Ick. :shock: Be careful up there. I had a thermostat in my attic at our old house that regularly read 135+ degrees on summer days, even quite early in the day. I'd suggest under those conditions that you always check in with someone when you start working and check in regularly as you're working. Ideally, have a helper around on days like that (even if you're the only one doing the icky attic work). It's dangerous to be exposed to temperatures that are that high for extended periods.

Thanks Sharward - I appreciate the concern and good advice. I take many fewer risks now than I did when I was 20, after all I have kids to support and songs to record :!: Got up early today to beat the heat and start putting some of that insulation back into the attic. Fun!!

Here are a few pix of the finished framing for the CR (except front wall) - wiring for power and lights is going in now - then the drywall 1/2 and 5/8 with a middle layer of 3/8 ply for something to grab screws. I was going to surface mount all the electrical stuff but decided not to because the box depth exactly matches the wall thickness (1.5") so I can mount electrical boxes directly to external stud faces (rather than inside the framing) to minimize the sound leakage around the box and still get flush mounted switches and sockets. I think... :? More in 3 weeks.... I have an October deadline for this project because I just made my LAST quarterly lease payment for the current studio housed in a local commercial building.

Awesome!! :mrgreen: Any chance we can see a close-up of your ceiling joists and inner leaf wall top? :roll:

I can mount electrical boxes directly to external stud faces (rather than inside the framing) to minimize the sound leakage around the box and still get flush mounted switches and sockets. I think If your boxes are mounted to studs, and all sides are surrounded by wallboard, where are your wires gonna go? And, if you break up your layers to make room for wires, where's your isolation gonna go? Might wanna do a search here for "putty pack" - Steve

Knightfly - thanks for the tip. I was thinking of mounting the utility boxes like in the diagram below - but I take your point about wire access and was going to drill the minimus hole necessary to get the wire(s) in and surround them with acoustic or silicon sealant once everything is hooked up. I did look for putty packs at the local stores with no luck - but will do the site search you suggest and see if I can find them. Forgot to mention that the CR wall is covered on the inside only. There will be a second free-standing wall on the other side of most of the boxes - again with the mass layer on only one side - this should create a large enough space to fill with rockwool and adhere to the M-A-M paradigm. Sharward - I'll get out there and try to shoot some closeups. The free hanging joists are just sitting there a few inches to a few feet from the wall. I added the metal brackest as a precaution - but the joists were pretty convincing in terms of strength with fasteners (nails) driven through the tops of the wall frame. The whole room wiggles righ now, but once the drywall is in place it should be much more rigid. That reminds me - I would appreciate opinions about the necessity of inserting crossbracing between the ceiling joists - right now there is nothing there.

I bought putty pads at SPI (Specialty Products and Insulation) www.spi-co.com I didn't see that they had a branch in Iowa but you may be able to get them to ship. Others have had OC703 shipped from them. The specific ones I bought were Nelson FSP. www.nelsonfirestop.com Nelson/O-Z Gedney is a pretty well known electrical manufacturer that makes industrial boxes, light fixtures, switches and all kinds of other stuff. You may be able to have them special ordered from an electrical supply house. The Nelson website says you can call [removed] for a local distributor. I've just finished my humble basement studio and didn't find recessed electrical boxes to really be an issue when using putty packs. Doors are my weak link by far. Best of Luck

I will follow up on the putty and I agree PhiloBeddoe that my doors are going to be the weakest links - I am trying to build sound locks at all doorways but there will be compromises :? Here are some pix of the interdigitated joists adjacent to the nearest outer leaf - and I know that this is suboptimal - but until they destroy yet another food-generating field next to my house to build vinyl coated boxes the noise levels should be very low (based on the rate of city growth - I estimate I have 3 years of quiet, max :( ) BTW you can also see the 2x4 plugs I put between the rafters and under the attic OSB (to the right in the pix) to make sure I had a pretty good seal between the external attic vent soffits and the inside of the building. My HVAC expert scratches his head a lot trying to figure out where air will come in and go out! He thinks a 100W light bulb will heat the CR during the winter (below 0 f outside) and that I will be running AC full time - probably correct!!

Thanks very much for taking these close-ups! It's very close to what I was envisioning in my mind, and this concept is discussed frequently on the forum with few good quality photos to use for reference. I'm sure your thread will become a "favorite" here! :mrgreen:

Thanks Sharward. I am planning to make a list of all the mistakes I have made so anyone who is interested can use it as a "NOT to do" list! Of course a lot of mistakes will never be known - I'll just be sitting there going "now where is that *#@#% buzz coming from...?" I am done with running all the AC lines and need to make a trip to the store for more boxes. Then if I can find the putty packs - apply that stuff and put up the drywall/plywood/drywall inner leaf - I have 4 cases of acoustical sealant and a box of backer rod ready to go :!: Since I have access to about 90% of the backside of the CR walls I am planning to stuff the insulation in there after the drywall is up - not that it really matters I 'spose.

scalpshifter wrote:

Since I have access to about 90% of the backside of the CR walls I am planning to stuff the insulation in there after the drywall is up - not that it really matters I 'spose.

Yeah, might as well -- your wall splaying does make for ample wiggle room in there!

Hi Here are a few pix after all of the spaces have been filled with rockwool, all the wiring is in and the sheetrock begins going up. I decided NOT to put a layer of 3/8" plywood up first because my gut feeling after trying a sheet was that it felt too "flimsy" and might exhibit some weird resonance behavior. I'll use the many sheets of ply that I purchased for resonators and my daughter's playhouse!

I totally hate you right now. ;-) Nice work and great photos -- keep 'em comin'! :mrgreen:

Hi Sharward, Believe me, your project is many notches beyond mine in both planning and execution. I have been reading your thread and, in addition to the awesome diagrams, the info in there is mind boggling. Fortunately, my rooms do not have to be perfect - just useable. Also, if I am not done by Dec. 1, my console sits outside in the snow because that is the drop dead day for moving out of my leased space :!: One of the things that is driving me nuts right now is having to put air returns into the room and violate the integrity of the walls. The air will dump into either a sound lock or the "between the two frames" space in my double frame sections, and then up into the attic so the sound transfer won't be intolerable. But it just hurts to work so hard sealing things up only to cut holes afterward :cry:

scalpshifter wrote:

I have been reading your thread and, in addition to the awesome diagrams, the info in there is mind boggling.

Cool! :) At least, I hope "mind boggling" was a compliment! ;-)

One of the things that is driving me nuts right now is having to put air returns into the room and violate the integrity of the walls. The air will dump into either a sound lock or the "between the two frames" space in my double frame sections, and then up into the attic so the sound transfer won't be intolerable. But it just hurts to work so hard sealing things up only to cut holes afterward :cry:

Have you been following my plan do use the big soffit-type Woodlocky box silencers? That may be your ticket to addressing your "I really don't want to cut a hole in my awesome wall" dilemma. 8) Maybe I need to do a detail illustration of that... (Dan did one but mine won't be done exactly the way he drew.) --Keith :mrgreen:

I've actually been thinkin of a silencer design myself. I'll get it on paper soon to have it critiqued by everyone here.

The silencer concept sounds great and any diagrams to guide the uninitiated would be awesome! :D

I have finished the first wall and ceiling layer of drywall in the CR. An interesting experiment is the air delivery system. I lined two of the spaces between the ceiling joists with duct liner (see pix). These will be the conduits to deliver air to the room from four lateral vents. The air will be fed into these spaces via a central input from the attic. The flexiduct feeding the central input goes quite a ways through the attic to the heater/AC plenum. I also built an insulated box behind the rear wall that will function as the air return - spewing air to the open space there and then through a vent into the attic (or I may use ducting to take it directly to the attic - not sure yet). That drywall was hard to do - every piece had to be specially cut to fit. I sealed all gaps with Sheetrock brand acoustical sealant - not hard at all (use a plastic spoon to smooth it in - and that backer rod really helps stabilize the material when wet). Imade some audio routing compromises - running four 2-conductor lines to the back of the room in case I want a sub there that feeds to L/R speakers behind my head for that surround sound feel. I had to run them around the periphery because that was the only way to avoid the AC feeds in the room. This will go on my "what not to do next time" page when the project is complete! :) That is about it for now - I'll post more pix as the drywall goes up. then on to the finishing the walls, installing doors, a LOT of electrical wiring, and the bamboo floor! :lol:

Lookin' good! A couple of comments... First, I think it wold have been better if the first layer of ceiling went up first, then the first layer of wall. The reason for this is that the top of the wall layer would support the top layer of ceiling around the perimeter of the room. What kind of duct liner did you use? I may want to use something similar to line my silencers when I get to that stage. --Keith :mrgreen:

Hi Keith I struggled with that "which layer first" question for some time and read something in this forum somewhere that led me to want to hang the ceiling inside the perimeter wall (to minimize hard mechanical contact between the two - though I guess this is probably a non-issue). Turns out that I forgot to build a small frame in the ceiling ducts to support the outlet vents so I really should pull down some sheetrock and fix that, but I have a retrofit in mind that may save my back! The liner was provided by a local HVAC expert and he said that this was standard liner they use all the time - but did not give me any brand or product name. I'll try to get that today and post it. You are up early for a Sunday morning! Eric

Here is the latest status update on this project. The CR drywall is done and mudded for the most part. Some flexiduct has been installed and the dirty, nasty used insulation is finally stuffed back into the attic and out of my way! I built a small, rockwool-lined plenum for the exit port for air flow and will cut a hole int he back wall of the CR to complete the connection. I am trying to put all air returns in the various nooks and crannies created by having my CR, "caddywonkus" as the local sheriff said to me some time ago Next is texturing of the walls and ceiling, then I build about 6 hanging baffles using rockwool inside wooden frames to be suspended from the ceiling. Note to self: Next time - get the BEST lumber available. Some of my ceiling joists were twisted, resulting in a interesting undulation in the ceiling profile But this will be covered by the hanging baffles anyway. That is all for now! Pix forthcoming....

Hi This is just an update to show off my bamboo floor and the cool ceiling baffle I built to "eliminate" the reflective ceiling in my low-ceiling CR. I have more updates coming soon (electrical and whatnot). This is taking a long time and it is COLD in IA wiht no HVAC active yet in this area.... BTW the rectangles in the floor in some of the pix are pull out sections for running audio cables. I am having fun and it is gonna be a BLAST when this is functional! My house is a MESS since I moved all my gear from my leased space - not to mention the 100 sheets of drywall taking up the space my car should sit INSIDE the garage and out of the snow! e

some pix were ablatotruncated here they are

You're moving along very nicely indeed!! 8) It's hardly recognizable from three months back! You must be in a very satisfying position now... Seeing it all really coming together like this. So far, how's the experience been? Did you expect that it would take this long? What's been your biggest challenge so far? What, if anything, would you do differently if you had the chance? --Keith :mrgreen:

I AM pumped to see things making some sort of sense – and it is fun to have a paper project become tangible! There are some many things I might have done differently (and will on studio #3!). Many of my choices were economically driven (like doing all the labor myself….). Let’s see – some big “I wonder if I had…”s include: Doors – solid core with BETTER frames - I have developed a phobia related to hanging doors on frames made out of reconstituted toothpicks… Lumber – I bought several hundred 2x4s from a local yard that supplies contractors. I guess they saved the worst for me – and charged the most! Turns out that Lowe’s has much better lumber (straighter – does not still resemble a tree) at much better prices. Attic – I spent a lot of time and calories hoisting 3/4 inch T&G OSB into the attic to create a mass layer above the free-standing CR ceiling. I am not sure it was worth the trouble (acoustically or otherwise) and I probably will not do this above the live room. It is nice to have the top view access to wiring and stuff. On the other hand, if the sound leakage (in or out) is intolerable, then up goes the mass layer! Drywall – I just do not have the skill level of a pro and a lot of my drywall is less than perfect – thank goodness for acoustical caulk!!! On thing I am trying to do is leave options open despite the theoretical ideal of having planned everything perfectly from the beginning. I know that no matter how well things are planned most of us have to be somewhat nimble and flexible enough to make minor alterations for things we missed. So, I am comfortable with my approach of a good general plan with substantial room for experimentation and diversion when necessary. In other words stick to general principles and get started doing something without obsessing too much about the infinite details!! Last thing – the biggest challenge (at least right now) is my original question! I (again) need to frame up against a ceiling with a nice drywall treatment and would love to not rip out the drywall, but I probably should!! (this is because I decided to “bump out” an alcove for a drum set and a small iso room) – hence the “nimble and flexible” planning strategy gets put into action once more! :wink: